Review Round 3, 2024 - Brisbane Lions vs. Collingwood

[martinson]

Don't get me wrong i think on form he should be given an inside mid job in the seniors.
Pure mid relief for Neale and Dunkley with some odd times on the field the same time as them.
However, that has not happened.

Likewise I'm surprised Tunstill hasn't been given a shot this year.

He's improved and earnt it.

 

[Nunez]

Don't get me wrong i think on form he should be given an inside mid job in the seniors.
Pure mid relief for Neale and Dunkley with some odd times on the field the same time as them.
However, that has not happened.

Not sure he'd earned it yet. If he delivers in the VFL this morning, it'll be hard to say he hasn't earned a call up.

 

[bato]

Lester was the only guy that didn't fumble last night. Always felt safe when he was near it.

 

[Roylion]

If we play Lyons as a pure mid, we put the runners around him. Bailey and Dunkley are supposed to be quick, but they are too often out bodied and then standing flat footed watching opponents run the ball out of the middle. The idea with Lyons is that he is more likely to win the contest than Bailey ever will or Dunkley currently does.

Absolutely agree.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Charlie, Daniher & Hipwood need to stop playing behind their man trying to take speccies and offer our mids a lead.

Basic U12’s message. Mentioned it to my forwards yesterday afternoon at training. Used Charlie Cameron as an example.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Lester was the only guy that didn't fumble last night. Always felt safe when he was near it.

He is a gun footballer. His technique on the ground, by foot and by hand is perfect. He should be giving Payne lessons, but Payne is the big contract, bigger money defender, so what could he learn from Lester? After all, he hasn’t got time to learn from Lester, because he’s too busy drinking his own bath water.

 

[Elixuh]

I’m surprised more people aren’t a bit more positive after last night. It really came down to finishing. We had so many more opportunities than the pies and kept them scoreless for a quarter.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Still can't get over how slow our team is. McCluggage and Dunkley look like they're running in mud. McCluggage especially.

 

[martinson]

I’m surprised more people aren’t a bit more positive after last night. It really came down to finishing. We had so many more opportunities than the pies and kept them scoreless for a quarter.

When you don't finish as we did that's mentally draining isn't it.

We basically dominated the second quarter and at the end was deflated with the outcome.

Especially once they were able to slot them from anywhere.

 

[Thomasno]

Strong rumour that some of the players have had a falling out.

Elaborate?

 

[NotQuiteJezza]

I’ve got a new plan for next year. Do not play any tall forwards until May when the humidity drops and they actually mark the ball. Play a all small forward line and keep the inside 50 balls low and chaotic.

 

[goalkicker11]

Elaborate?

One players phone might have connected to his home iCloud and his partner saw his messages and photos and it’s caused a few other players to have problems with their relationships as well, this has caused some friction between players and it’s showing.

 

[royboys4eva]

The effort is there and then the effort isn't there. We have played one good qtr in each of our games. Problem is we are letting teams dominate for too long a period.

We just can't stop teams when they get a run on. Second qtr we dominated but didn't put the score on the board because our inside 50 entires consist of bomb to a tall and hope they mark in a pack of six. When will we learn or instruct Daniher and Hipwood to lead out of the square. The one time Daniher did it he kicked a goal!!

Hippy had one of the worst individual games I can remember last night. Must have dropped 5 marks and had no impact. He isn't a pack mark. He is a lean quick forward who needs to be on the lead. He actually should be dropped for Morris next week. Fagan needs to stop excusing poor performances and make a statement.

No idea what has happened to Charlie. Looks bored or lost his edge. My biggest issue with Charlie is the work rate and lack of defensive pressure. I haven't seen him lay many tackles this year if at all? If you can't kick goals, at least offer defensive intent.

Credit to Rayner and Berry who were much better last night - amazing what an improved work rate will do for your game. However, one of my fave players Zac Bailey

33

Zac Bailey

Age

25

Ht

181cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.7

3star

K

6.9

3star

HB

5.9

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.9

3star

D

12.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

5.6

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.4

3star

CL

0.7

3star

D

13.4

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.8

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.8

5star

CL

0.6

3star

has been awful this year. This is a guy with huge amount of skill but still manages to get caught holding the ball three times a game. It's a reflection on the coaching staff that he hasn't been taught to give the first option quicker or develop a left foot. I wouldn't be opposed to dropping him like Hippy. Needs a massive wake up call the boy.

Payne still worries me. I thought he looked good for most of last year but he has been bang average in two games.

Dev Robbo - the guy goes to ground more than Mitch Robinson

5

Mitch Robinson

Age

36

Ht

184cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.9

5star

K

11.2

4star

HB

8.7

5star

M

4.1

4star

T

4.7

5star

CL

3.2

5star

D

15.8

4star

K

11.3

4star

HB

4.5

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

1.9

3star

CL

1.8

4star

D

13.2

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.6

5star

. Needs to keep his feet. Fast running out of chances and I would make him sub next week and say to him barring an injury you play the last 40/45 mins and you need to get to every 50/50 midfield contest and offer run.

Fagan needs to stop the rot and drop some big names - Hippy and Bailey is a good start.

 

[Nathan Barley]

The think with dropping established players are their replacements will most likely play worse than them next week. This then flows on to the team playing worse and the rest of the team having more difficulty finding form and confidence

So it's a tricky situation

Look at Collingwood. They drop Sidebottom and then WHE spuds it up in his place

 

[royboys4eva]

The think with dropping established players are their replacements will most likely play worse than them next week. This then flows on to the team playing worse and the rest of the team having more difficulty finding form and confidence

So it's a tricky situation

Look at Collingwood. They drop Sidebottom and then WHE spuds it up in his place

They made Crisp as Sub - bring him on with 45 mins to go and he dominates.

 

[tate13]

I don’t think Fagan is the problem, BUT at the same time a new coach with the right list might unlock something.

Look at Collingwood - I don’t think Buckley was a bad coach at all to be honest. But things were stagnating, and when McRae came in it was an immediate boost both in player effort, and the change in strategy worked for them too.

That seems ridiculously harsh on a bloke that was less than a kick away from a premiership… 4 games ago! and has won more games than any other side over the past 5 years.
This is our first real drop off (if it keeps going this way) - that’s an amazing record over those years.
Everyone is so quick to criticise the coach, but is there a possibility that he’s actually got the best out of the group? It’s a question nobody can answer.
But with a young profile and 2 ashcrofts to come into that midfield, there’s really not a compelling case to move the coach this season. You’d want to see how things go next season before that.

Buckley wasn’t sacked the year after the 2018 gf, the side continued to slide and they had a generational inclusion (Daicos - see Ashcrofts) that he never got to coach.

Historically, sides that make a rash call on a coach regularly, aren’t successful and lose players.

I understand emotional reaction, but given his record, he’s earned the right to turn this around.

 

[rye]

That seems ridiculously harsh on a bloke that was less than a kick away from a premiership… 4 games ago! and has won more games than any other side over the past 5 years.
This is our first real drop off (if it keeps going this way) - that’s an amazing record over those years.
Everyone is so quick to criticise the coach, but is there a possibility that he’s actually got the best out of the group? It’s a question nobody can answer.
But with a young profile and 2 ashcrofts to come into that midfield, there’s really not a compelling case to move the coach this season. You’d want to see how things go next season before that.

Buckley wasn’t sacked the year after the 2018 gf, the side continued to slide and they had a generational inclusion (Daicos - see Ashcrofts) that he never got to coach.

Historically, sides that make a rash call on a coach regularly, aren’t successful and lose players.

I understand emotional reaction, but given his record, he’s earned the right to turn this around.

i think the difference with fagan is the age factor

how much longer is it reasonable to expect him to coach for?

 

[Nathan Barley]

They make Crisp as Sub - bring him on with 45 mins to go and he dominates.

Yeah I wish we had the midfield depth to be able to do that

Did you notice who he replaced though? McRae who had been the sub and spudded it up

 

[Section 5]

I’m surprised more people aren’t a bit more positive after last night. It really came down to finishing. We had so many more opportunities than the pies and kept them scoreless for a quarter.

It was a better effort than the first two games but only just.
No converting opportunities is still not great football. Similar to the first 2 games.
Yes, we kept them scoreless, but they held us to just 8 points the next quarter.

Similar to the Blues game we dominated in the first with 7 goals to 2.
Then they kicked 7 goals to our 1 in the 3rd
In the Dockers game we only managed 2 points in the 2nd quarter and 8 points in the 3rd.
You are not going to win many games of footy with that inconsistency.

We are not a side noted for thrashing the opposition but i feel we need to belt North for 4 quarters to get some confidence back.

Then part of me just hopes we get the 4 points no matter the margin with no injuries.

 

[bungalow_bill]

That seems ridiculously harsh on a bloke that was less than a kick away from a premiership… 4 games ago! and has won more games than any other side over the past 5 years.
This is our first real drop off (if it keeps going this way) - that’s an amazing record over those years.
Everyone is so quick to criticise the coach, but is there a possibility that he’s actually got the best out of the group? It’s a question nobody can answer.
But with a young profile and 2 ashcrofts to come into that midfield, there’s really not a compelling case to move the coach this season. You’d want to see how things go next season before that.

Buckley wasn’t sacked the year after the 2018 gf, the side continued to slide and they had a generational inclusion (Daicos - see Ashcrofts) that he never got to coach.

Historically, sides that make a rash call on a coach regularly, aren’t successful and lose players.

I understand emotional reaction, but given his record, he’s earned the right to turn this around.

Sam Marshall is looking very good too. The sort of hard running mid that would nicely complement the two Ashcroft's

 

[Sanchez365]

I don’t see that he gets done as frequently as people say. Respectfully, the Lyons gets torched narrative is a bit like the Lester can’t run and Lester doesn’t intercept narrative we used to hear when he was being overlooked. It doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

If we play Lyons as a pure mid, we put the runners around him. Bailey and Dunkley are supposed to be quick, but they are too often out bodied and then standing flat footed watching opponents run the ball out of the middle. The idea with Lyons is that he is more likely to win the contest than Bailey ever will or Dunkley currently does.

Footnote: Lester was Equal 3rd for Intercept Possessions last night with 6, behind Zorko 9 and Andrews 7.

There are countless examples of Lyons not being able to chase and having his man run off him. He also exaggerates one of our biggest weaknesses in midfield defensive transition. That said he's not obviously alone in this category right now, and our forward pressure last night was abysmal

To be honest I'm more or less at a loss strategically of what I would do in the box. Ironically it feels like we need an injection of less talented players that will bust a gut so our stars can play like primadonnas. Or just some blistering pace to cover our poor defensive transition.

It seems teams plans against us is to just completely congest our forward line so our dynamic forwards have no space to work in. We seemed to play to counter that by adding a plethora of kicking half backs to pick their way through it (Coleman, Doedee, McKenna, Wilmot). Now with three of those guys out, it seemed like all our defenders kept looking for that decent kick inside 50 to take that last possession, and the chain ended up (most of the time) with an Answerth, Starch, Payne, Lester or Andrews.

It just feels like a real back to the drawing board moment for the coaches and we just HAD a bye to do a mini reset which produced "focus on contested clearance game" which I just don't think will cut it this year.

 

[3KZ is Football]

There are countless examples of Lyons not being able to chase and having his man run off him. He also exaggerates one of our biggest weaknesses in midfield defensive transition. That said he's not obviously alone in this category right now, and our forward pressure last night was abysmal

To be honest I'm more or less at a loss strategically of what I would do in the box. Ironically it feels like we need an injection of less talented players that will bust a gut so our stars can play like primadonnas. Or just some blistering pace to cover our poor defensive transition.

It seems teams plans against us is to just completely congest our forward line so our dynamic forwards have no space to work in. We seemed to play to counter that by adding a plethora of kicking half backs to pick their way through it (Coleman, Doedee, McKenna, Wilmot). Now with three of those guys out, it seemed like all our defenders kept looking for that decent kick inside 50 to take that last possession, and the chain ended up (most of the time) with an Answerth, Starch, Payne, Lester or Andrews.

It just feels like a real back to the drawing board moment for the coaches and we just HAD a bye to do a mini reset which produced "focus on contested clearance game" which I just don't think will cut it this year.

One thing we need to do is ‘something different’ which isn’t Fagan’s strong suit.

 

[Pacman82]

I don’t know what was going on last night but there were quite a few times where we had some quick ball movement, took a mark about 70m out and could’ve turned and got it in quick to one on ones (Charlie etc), but for reasons unknown we hesitated and waited for them to get numbers (particularly Moore) back to kill the ball.

Slow ball movement just kills you in the modern game.

Yep & it was the same against the Blues, we had ample opportunity to go forward in the last few mins and score anything to even just level the game for a draw. The final kick forward was constantly stalled resulting in mass congestion, it should also be said that our forwards have been stagnant, flat footed and not getting to good spots or giving decent leads.

 

[rye]

How can you say that when Fagan has never tried or your one example about WHE is your evidence?

the pretty obvious counterpoint to this is we dropped both rich and gunston last year. rich in particular having been a b22 player for over a decade.

payne dropped for gardiner in the finals last year too.

why do you keep making this point across multiple threads on this forum when there is an example that disproves it within the last 12 months?

 

[Nathan Barley]

How can you say that when Fagan has never tried or your one example about WHE is your evidence?

Because I watch VFL and see the lack of depth we have.

Talk about dropping Berry for guys like Prior and Sharp who have been very average in the seniors and don’t show the improvement in the 2s to indicate he has more to show in the seniors