Autopsy Round 3, 2024: Essendon v St.Kilda

[MordySaint]

Exactly how much depth do you think any team in the competition actually carries? We are down 3 best 22 midfielders right now. Any team in the comp is going to struggle with that in regards to pure inside work.

Show me the midfield that we have developed.

We have our three best (if fit) midfielder starters as Jones, Crouch and Steele. All from other clubs, not developed in our system.

We have ignored building a midfield or done a pretty poor job at doing it.

 

[The Punter]

Show me the midfield that we have developed.

We have our three best (if fit) midfielder starters as Jones, Crouch and Steele. All from other clubs, not developed in our system.

We have ignored building a midfield or done a pretty poor job at doing it.

Must have been an eventful 22 months in Western Sydney 2015-2016.

In other words, I think it is fair comment to say St Kilda developed Jack Steele.

So far in 2024, Windhager has attended more CBAs than Jones, and last year it was Crouch, Steele and Ross. Jones is marginal best 22 with his strengths (these are points of differences as well) and weaknesses.

I get it: we lost to Essendon and that really sucks, and we've been waiting too long as a supporter base. But the sun came up this morning.

 

[Saint Watto]

Bloody hell, you’re a Ray of sunshine

Ok....I can almost hear the tune "Happy Days are here again"

From the top....Happy days are........

 

[Saint Watto]

But the sun came up this morning.

Not where I live.......the "Noah's Ark" special was still occurring this morning !!!!!

 

[MordySaint]

Must have been an eventful 22 months in Western Sydney 2015-2016.

In other words, I think it is fair comment to say St Kilda developed Jack Steele.

So far in 2024, Windhager has attended more CBAs than Jones, and last year it was Crouch, Steele and Ross. Jones is marginal best 22 with his strengths (these are points of differences as well) and weaknesses.

I get it: we lost to Essendon and that really sucks, and we've been waiting too long as a supporter base. But the sun came up this morning.

GWS had all the top picks and they concentrated on top midfielder talent and then they had too many of them, so they traded one to us.

But lets not get into the journey of our ruck development over the last ten years.

All I can say is thankfully that someone took a chance on a boy from Western Victoria.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It’s very difficult attracting top players to a small, unsuccessful club, therefore we need to develop our own, something we’ve been doing the last couple of years but should’ve been doing much sooner!

Its a sugar rush.
Every time you take a ticket from the "draft lottery" and use it for a prime player. You get a few good years ( if lucky ) from your trade, then back to square 1.
We drafted Seb Ross in 2011, he's not the greatest but he's still there playing hard.
OK , Jack Steele was a good trade Butler and Higgens maybe, but they aren't the Messiah.

Luke Delaney, Billy Longer, Freeman, Carlisle , Stevens , Austin, Hannebury,Jones,
Jones, Howard and Hill will be gone before we know it too.
We've been jerking off in trade week instead of being good at drafting.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

GWS had all the top picks and they concentrated on top midfielder talent and then they had too many of them, so they traded one to us.

But lets not get into the journey of our ruck development over the last ten years.

All I can say is thankfully that someone took a chance on a boy from Western Victoria.

Then we traded Hickey.

 

[MordySaint]

Then we traded Hickey.

and kept Longer ... you couldn't make this stuff up.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

What midfielder was available last year? The people currently running the show can't magically fix everything in one offseason. Our likely 2nd and 3rd mids are injured, Windy and Pou still learning, Jones building but unreliable, Clark MIA again. There's been a pretty consistent approach to drafting the last 3 years and early signs are they've nailed a fair few of those picks.

This is best crop of young players we've had in nearly 20 years.

There's no guarantees on player longevity but have a look at some of the older blokes that played in the last two premierships. If we get this right the next two/three years there's no reason Steele and Sinclair won't be contributing to a contending side.

Yep this.

I'd much rather have Wilson, who is only beginning to show how unique he's going to be, than some middle of the road player that will be gone in 5 years, that we traded a first rounder + for.

I find it interesting that while we were happy to take Coffield and Clarke after screwing over the Hawks for their pick, the Hawks quietly picked up Worpel the pick before Paton, well after Clavarino. The reason Worpel slid, concern about his kicking and athleticism.

Hopefully we've done something similar with Garcia.

 

[Ads734]

Show me the midfield that we have developed.

We have our three best (if fit) midfielder starters as Jones, Crouch and Steele. All from other clubs, not developed in our system.

We have ignored building a midfield or done a pretty poor job at doing it.

Seb Ross

 

[littlecreatures]

I hate to disrupt the dystopian theme you seem to have going on, but you realise the list management team doesn't just stop here and call it a day, yeah? You do realise that the idea is that you keep on tipping in more high-level talent via the draft and trading so that the team gets better?

I chuckled. And, here starts the debate of realistic vs. disillusioned Sints/Sents/Sants supporters.

One of the unusual complexities RTB is dealing with now is rebuilding a list on the fly while delivering results (Geelong on steroids, except we can’t pinch a Cameron, Danger, Bruhn or gifted a Bowes and 1st rounder). He knows we could well and truly completely fall of the cliff in 3-5 years if the hard work isn’t done now, hence the ebbs and flows of a young side with what 10-12 players 50 games or less.

Expect teething in the here and now, but we will come out the other side thankful for it. Need to stick to the course.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Nutsngum]

Show me the midfield that we have developed.

We have our three best (if fit) midfielder starters as Jones, Crouch and Steele. All from other clubs, not developed in our system.

We have ignored building a midfield or done a pretty poor job at doing it.

Show me the part of your post where you mentioned "developed", whatever that truly means.

We have acquired through both draft and trade a fairly even spread of players who can go through our inside mid brigade and the point I was making was that a 3 man hit to the starting midfield is going to stress any team out there and that we are not unique in that scenario.

 

[Sainter93]

I’m still puzzled as to how we went back to those Brett Rattan days in the 2nd half.

Felt like a carbon copy of 2021/22.

It left me questioning our fitness as well which is not something I would think I was worrying about at the start of the year

 

[Saint Watto]

I chuckled. And, here starts the debate of realistic vs. disillusioned Sints/Sents/Sants supporters.

One of the unusual complexities RTB is dealing with now is rebuilding a list on the fly while delivering results (Geelong on steroids, except we can’t pinch a Cameron, Danger, Bruhn or gifted a Bowes and 1st rounder). He knows we could well and truly completely fall of the cliff in 3-5 years if the hard work isn’t done now, hence the ebbs and flows of a young side with what 10-12 players 50 games or less.

Expect teething in the here and now, but we will come out the other side thankful for it. Need to stick to the course.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

A great post there LC.

 

[Diehard Saint]

. Also playing Owens as a full time inside mid would help his output.

You putting your hand up to tell RTB?

 

[littlecreatures]

I’m still puzzled as to how we went back to those Brett Rattan days in the 2nd half.

Felt like a carbon copy of 2021/22.

It left me questioning our fitness as well which is not something I would think I was worrying about at the start of the year

Players fall back into what they know once you lose structure and feel the pressure. Seems like we lose overlap and run too.

 

[Strahany]

Had the long weekend to analyse what happened and I haven't really moved on from the result or the performance yet.

We got reamed by Goldstein and Draper. Two quality ruckman vs one.

Have always rated Goldstein as a great ruckman and have no idea why we didn't go for him. Our only backup is Campbell who never gets a game anyway.

Any thoughts on why we overlooked Draper and left Campbell on our list?

I believe Stavro had mentioned that we actually chased after Goldstein, but he wasn’t interested in coming (or at least on the terms we offered)

 

[SG34]

RTB had a bad hand coming in. Perhaps the worst was the ‘retirement’ of Paddy, who in late July had expressed his desire to play on. (No idea of the inside story, so who knows) but ya know, the other day, watching Geelong beat us, my mind went to players I compare (and I know I shouldn’t) Mitch Duncan ! 2009 draft. #28 .. class and still contributing…and his kicking and touch is elite. And our dear Seb, from 2011, who gives his best and I loved his first quarter last week. It’s a damn shame, but I just can’t see things getting off to a flying start now.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Curious to hear people's views on an ideal ruck set up given Marshall's strengths and weaknesses.

We'd lose so much around the ground if he isn't playing first ruck but his tap ruck skills are poor and using Owens as the back makes that even worse.

So do we aim to get a better tap ruck who replaces Marshall who then plays as a fwd/ruck or do we continue to put up with poor tap work and hope that one of Hayes, Caminiti, Heath or Keeler comes on enough to be a significant improvement on using Owens.

 

[BrutThough]

Curious to hear people's views on an ideal ruck set up given Marshall's strengths and weaknesses.

We'd lose so much around the ground if he isn't playing first ruck but his tap ruck skills are poor and using Owens as the back makes that even worse.

So do we aim to get a better tap ruck who replaces Marshall who then plays as a fwd/ruck or do we continue to put up with poor tap work and hope that one of Hayes, Caminiti, Heath or Keeler comes on enough to be a significant improvement on using Owens.

We dont lose games because of Marshall's tap work.

Let Marshall continue to do what he does around the ground and get better mids who can win a centre clearance no matter who taps it first.

 

[pebblesofsand]

We dont lose games because of Marshall's tap work.

Let Marshall continue to do what he does around the ground and get better mids who can win a centre clearance no matter who taps it first.

yeah OK - I'll bite.

How do we get better mids, where from and at what cost?

 

[gubby88]

yeah OK - I'll bite.

How do we get better mids, where from and at what cost?

You draft them. That's where sos and dalrymple come in

 

[BrutThough]

yeah OK - I'll bite.

How do we get better mids, where from and at what cost?

Hopefully Dow can add that, it's one of the reasons we brought him in. Windy looked promising against Collingwood - 6 centre clearances when we were losing hit outs convincingly.

I just dont think hit outs are that important. Maybe it matters if you are Paddy Ryder level of skill and talent but Marshall impacts games more than most ruckman in the competition despite being an average tap ruckman.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Curious to hear people's views on an ideal ruck set up given Marshall's strengths and weaknesses.

We'd lose so much around the ground if he isn't playing first ruck but his tap ruck skills are poor and using Owens as the back makes that even worse.

So do we aim to get a better tap ruck who replaces Marshall who then plays as a fwd/ruck or do we continue to put up with poor tap work and hope that one of Hayes, Caminiti, Heath or Keeler comes on enough to be a significant improvement on using Owens.

Personally I think winning taps means very little. Last week against Collingwood was a great example, we got absolutely slaughtered in the taps but thanks to Windy and co we looked quite dynamic out of the center and from stoppage.

Its a small advantage the best tap rucks have over the rest but statistically makes almost no difference to clearance differential.

High quality mids are what gets it done.

 

[The Punter]

The young mids just need to find consistency.

And we have five mids on the injury list at the moment.