Autopsy Round 3, 2025: Positives and Negatives vs Fremantle

[Dom sheed pocket]

He is a good leader in defense. A great foil for Hough and Ginbey..

Its others who cant and wont lead/

Sure. I’m happy to agree to disagree, and agree with you that cole far down the list of problems.

 

[darksquare]

We definitely have the worst midfield in the AFL.

Infact some of the better 2nd tier teams would beat them.

Including our own

 

[Smotie2]

Mate you are not getting what im saying at all.
Our mids suck, yes we all know that. We have 2 young mids that we are managing through full games as it is, and you want to add 2 more? we can only bring in so many kids at once without going into games expecting 100+ point losses every week.
Im keen to bring in Hall or Gross, Hall should never have been dropped, but not by just throwing out all the senior players that can at least run out games and provide a base level of performance(which I know isnt great)

Do you think Dewar, A.Reid, etc would have shown as much if we couldnt do anything in the midfield for the last 5 mins of every quarter and the entire last quarter?

Aren't you the guy that said you don't need a+ mids to win a flag?

If so...at least you are consistent...keep the spuds in case we not only lose but lose worser

 

[Hook461123]

Disappointing game. We still look a long way off.
Even though we didn't get smashed on the scoreboard we played terribly. Maric, AReid, Ginbey all played their parts but most of the team, especially the senior guys didn't play well. BWilliams went back to letting his opponent be the best player on the ground.

It doesn't look like there will be any quick turnaround with a new coach/gamestyle. We just lack the players in the midfield.
It shows we shouldn't be chasing Warner this year. We still need some high draft pick midfielders. At the moment if he was to come to the club we would still suck plus we wouldn't have any high picks for the next 2 years. We need two more years of top draft picks and then Warner would help.

Time to start playing the next Gen,

Out: Long, Brockman, Billiams, Hedwards, Gov (injured), Hunt, Owies
In: Gross, Hall, Brock, Waterman, Flynn, HJ, Allan

Mini needs to keep trying things. Allen, Reid to defense to find some form. Hough to the middle to see what he offers in there. Gross to take Longs spot rotating forward/Mid. Who knows what to do with Duggan, if he wasn't captain he'd be on the chopping block. Mini has this year to try things and work out who fits where.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Duggan is a big question mark.

Baker has replaced him in the backline as the resident "tries really hard but not highly skilled" operator. And you can't afford to have many of those.

He doesn't win clearances. I don't think he's a defensive mid, and we have Graham and Baker for that role anyway.

He's decent at finding the ball on the outside but his skills are sub-par. Dewar has locked down one of the wings.

He's now just a bit of a utility who shouldn't be among the starting mids or defenders.

I think its fairly simple. Duggans best role is the role Ginbey is playing right now.... which is a big worry for Duggan who seemingly has zero versatility.

Im not too sure what the answer is here. I know which one id like . Trade bait

 

[Astro7]

Duggan actually comes across as a strong leader, full captain material.
Unfortunately his skills/disposal can let him down, but he's not alone there.
The backs look like a lock, depending on injuries. Although coach says he wants players to be flexible. The backs are the best thing we have going at present.

The coach will probably throw players around a bit over the coming games, and hopefully experiment with the midfield.
We certainly need some speed and skills in the midfield.
From interviews and podcasts, it seems the players were cooked after Brissy game, losing kilos, same with Lions of course.
Cole has been solid this season so far and is the least of our worries.

 

[Yeahnahmate]

McQualter brought Graham and Baker over for their workrate, leadership and knowledge of the game plan - to help him instil the game plan. So they are probably non negotiables at this early stage. It's nothing like Simmo and credits. It's for a specific reason to assist him and his plan going forward, not because they're old mates and some loyalty thing.

Not very difficult to understand. It's completely aside from Hall or anyone else. Hall and co. will enter the side in due course. Mcqualter will make changes in due course, not to suit you or the fans but to suit his game plan, strategy, structures and balance going forward. Whether he gets it right is another thing. Whether these young players in line to play AFL, particularly midfield, can step up and be consistent is also another thing.

Surely they are not immune if not performing well though? Graham stank yesterday.

It kind of is about Hall as it was stated he was a ‘like’ replacement last week when Graham was injured and he came in and impacted the contest more than Fridge has now in the other two games.

Hard to ‘step up and be consistent’ when you outperform senior players, and then get dropped the next game anyway.

Work rate and knowing the game plan are lovely, except of course when we have a massive issue with winning the ball in the first place in the guts

 

[jdisc]

Being older, not holding down a key post such as inside mid or KPP, and not being a strong leader is the very definition of a lost clogger.

When you bring young players into your team, where do you start them? Playing either back or forward, but we can’t because we have older blokes like cole who are just good enough to hold their spot.

Add hunt and and Owies to this list as well.

Usually you start them in their best position. We're playing HReid in the middle, playing Dewar on the wing, started Maric up forward before shifting him to a wing/back position, playing AReid out of the goal square, so not sure what you're saying.

Who has earnt Cole's spot? Or are you saying we should be playing Hall/Gross in a back pocket?

 

[Yeahnahmate]

Oscar used to be like that but he isn’t himself

He needs to seek a guru and find himself pretty soon because right now he’s useless as a player and as a captain. Waterman provides more of both qualities and he is sorely missed. His work rate when viewing at the ground is definitely team lifting stuff, it’s phenomenal

 

[jdisc]

Think omitting Hall for Graham was a mistake in hindsight, I understand the rationale but we are sorely missing that type of mid.

HReid can't do everything and TKelly goes missing frequently. Both should be rotated through the center and the flanks

 

[Yeahnahmate]

Duggan actually comes across as a strong leader, full captain material.
Unfortunately his skills/disposal can let him down, but he's not alone there.

Accepting mediocrity because it can be compared to surrounding mediocrity.

I like Duggo’s leadership skills but he needs to be assisted by Mini to stay put in the backline - not a midfielder, and actually perform consistently there at the very least

 

[jdisc]

He needs to seek a guru and find himself pretty soon because right now he’s useless as a player and as a captain. Waterman provides more of both qualities and he is sorely missed. His work rate when viewing at the ground is definitely team lifting stuff, it’s phenomenal

Oscar looks cooked, if he needs surgery or rest we're better off doing it now and going with Waterman/AReid/JWilliams as our talls

 

[lloydbraun]

The coach will probably throw players around a bit over the coming games, and hopefully experiment with the midfield.
We certainly need some speed and skills in the midfield.
From interviews and podcasts, it seems the players were cooked after Brissy game, losing kilos, same with Lions of course.
Cole has been solid this season so far and is the least of our worries.

Could easily be a factor in the performance. Then having to back it up on another hot humid day. Brissy only just got over the line against Geelong.

Perth games early in the season really should only be played at night.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

Think omitting Hall for Graham was a mistake in hindsight, I understand the rationale but we are sorely missing that type of mid.

HReid can't do everything and TKelly goes missing frequently. Both should be rotated through the center and the flanks

Agree with this. Everyone talks about Clay Hall's inside work, but if you go back and watch, he was also running at high speed tackling, harrassing etc.

Hall is a fair bit quicker than Graham. When Graham has been in the midfield, we look incredibly slow and unable to keep pace. Graham (along with Harley and TK as a unit) just don't have the speed to stay with opposition mids.

Hall should come in, and either Graham or Kelly need to come out.

 

[Barrybran]

Comments about Cole are off the mark. Ideally, Cole is not best 22 at the end of the year but he's pulling his weight at the moment.

Allen has to be playing hurt. He doesn't look right.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Hall should not only come in but have 10 games as a first contest starter and just left at it to see what happens

Id like to think this was common sense after last week but here we are

 

[Yeahnahmate]

Stop blaming Cole people, plenty more on the chopping block before him imo

 

[jdisc]

Stop blaming Cole people, plenty more on the chopping block before him imo

the board likes to pick on random players sometimes, like when they decided late last year that Ginbey was shit

 

[stallon]

Aren't you the guy that said you don't need a+ mids to win a flag?

If so...at least you are consistent...keep the spuds in case we not only lose but lose worser

Thats not what I said...

I said you dont need 4-5 "elite mids" to win a flag like many on here were saying at the time.
No club has 4-5 "elite mids"

 

[Doashuey]

Think omitting Hall for Graham was a mistake in hindsight, I understand the rationale but we are sorely missing that type of mid.

HReid can't do everything and TKelly goes missing frequently. Both should be rotated through the center and the flanks

I still would have had Graham in the side but Long should have made way for him, not Hall.
Need more mid options and less small forwards. Was a fairly simple play I would have thought but evidentially not.

 

[rebel23]

Y

Did I defend the rest of the midfield? Saying 15 disposals and a goal is droppable for a second year player is ridiculous. Mckercher had 19 disposals, Ollie Dempsey had 11 and a goal no one on the north or Geelong board are calling for them to be dropped.

Harley’s performances this year have been above average for a player of his experience, he’s underperforming relative to his talent but that doesn’t make him dropped worthy.

Asking to drop our midfield to play kids, but shifting Harley (who is a kid) seems counterproductive. Either you want to play kids in the middle and take the good with the bad e.g lack of tank to chase the full game, or you want experienced bodies there.

I’d suggest this entire board need to reevaluate their expectations of a 19yo, the hyperbole of his “bad form” based on expectations is ridiculous.

I didn't mention any numbers mate... You are the one who is... I couldn't really care less.15? 16? 19?... Whatever

In Harley's case specifically let's see all his opponents on the day.. Brayshaw, Serong, johnson Frederick.. there may have been more... Absolutely pantsed him in game influence.... Yes he is a kid... But can be a difference maker in the forward line... And that's probably why he was rated so highly coming out of the draft.... Doesn't have a tank yet...

But yes if he didn't have that string to his bow... I daresay gross and Allan could probably nullify their opponents better than him.

yes to the kids in the middle because we have a sample size of three games where we are beyond pathetic in that area of the ground... Give others a go.

 

[stallon]

Our mids suck, yes we all know that. So why continiously play the same group of people who suck over and over again when they are old and leading us nowhere?

The idea of us playing the older guys in the midfield so we dont get smashed in the midfield doesnt make much sense when we are getting absolutely smashed in the midfield like no other.... It goes back to what someone said before. We are playing these older blokes cos they got credits in the bank only and ignoring the fact that they are not actually making things better in any way. Are any of them blocking for Reid/Hewett or helping them along? Nope. Most are just playing selfish lazy football and getting in the way

I have zero doubt in my mind that Clay Hall helps Reid and Hewetts game more then Tim Kelly is right now. I have zero doubt that we desperately need a tagger in that midfield and a guy like Bo Allan will learn alot from it. He has the discipline and defensive sklls to do it. Im certain that if Baker goes onto a wing, he contributes more then Jayden Hunt and Tom Gross can go into the middle and have a go.

If we are worried about the legs its very simple here. Play a heavy midfield rotation. Play flankers who can go into the middile for a bit. That means dropping Long and Brockman and putting Kelly/Graham on those flanks to help that rotation as opposed to starting in the middle and getting in the way

All up you are wanting to keep the status quo on some weird belief that they are making things better without any proof saying that they are. Put Gross/Allan/Hall in next week and lets see what happens. A fair chance IMHO that these older blokes are not making things better and what happens is 3 guys under 21 outperform them. Outperform them cos they are faster and hungrier

We have been palying Reid and Hewett through the middle.
Mini has needed to give the senior guys a chance to fix their issues, if they cant do it in a timely manner then thye get moved on.

Throwing it all out after just a couple or a few weeks is just a stupid call.

Ive said since we saw Hall last week that I think he shouldve been in the side for Long, to play full time onball.
Not sure what else you want, we need to see how it goes with Hall, Hewett and Reid playing managed minutes before bringing Allan and Gross into the same midfield lmao

 

[Scotland]

I thought of a positive. Next game is away so we won't be subjected to Adam Simpson.

Seriously m8 if Harry Edwards goes for too many marks maybe you could've mentioned it to him in the 6 years you were his coach.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

We have been palying Reid and Hewett through the middle.
Mini has needed to give the senior guys a chance to fix their issues, if they cant do it in a timely manner then thye get moved on.

Throwing it all out after just a couple or a few weeks is just a stupid call.

Ive said since we saw Hall last week that I think he shouldve been in the side for Long, to play full time onball.
Not sure what else you want, we need to see how it goes with Hall, Hewett and Reid playing managed minutes before bringing Allan and Gross into the same midfield lmao

A few weeks? They have been shithouse for 3 years now. Mini should have moved them to the flanks in the pre season and not give them credits. Baker should go back to HBF or outside as originally was the plan and Graham should play HF just like he did at Richmond for 8 years as a starting point....

Allan is versatile and can play by ear in that sense. Im confident he will provide more then Duggan does in the middle. A bigger body too . Gross is that extra midfielder. You cant complain about our lack of run in the midfield then suggest we dont add a extra midfielder or 2 to the mix. You are right in saying its a weakness so lets fix it by actually playing midfielders in the midfield and not well Liam Ryan and Liam Baker. I mean do you think Liam Ryan is providing a solution in the midfield or something?

Its hard to say midfield is our biggest issue yet suggest we keep a low midfield rotation that sees us put flankers in the midfield ahead of well midfielders. If things go wrong we do have a switch to flick in the game. Put the flankers into the midfield. Instead of starting them there just simply have them as backup. A easy equation id think. Just as a starting point this would be my rotations

C: Baker, Kelly, Dewar
R: Flynn, Reid, Hall


Rotation : Gross, Allan, Hewett, Duggan, Graham

Kelly to spend time of HF and rotate with Graham. Gross, Hewett and Allan can be subs

 

[bzparkes]

I thought of a positive. Next game is away so we won't be subjected to Adam Simpson.

Seriously m8 if Harry Edwards goes for too many marks maybe you could've mentioned it to him in the 6 years you were his coach.

He was injured pretty much the entire time though, to be fair.