Autopsy Round 3 Blues dominant as Harry kicks 7

Who played well in Round 3 vs the Dockers?


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    268
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BigBreakfast

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 19, 2019
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Can someone please explain why Dow is only attending 10% of centre bounces? I get that most mids due to interchange restrictions are resting forward more, but surely attending just 3 of 29 centre bounces is taking the piss?

What's the point of persisting with him and playing him over Stocker/Kennedy etc. if we're not going to chuck him in the guts where he belongs?

I get what you are saying but, any player included in the side needs to do the job expected by the coach. Crack in a earn a spot in the middle or gtfo. Dow doesn’t look fit enough. His chasing efforts this season have been deplorable for a bloke with toe. If he can’t do a job, next man up. Gibbo should be in the middle but he just gets on with doing as he is told.
 

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Ash24

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Nov 3, 2020
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I get what you are saying but, any player included in the side needs to do the job expected by the coach. Crack in a earn a spot in the middle or gtfo. Dow doesn’t look fit enough. His chasing efforts this season have been deplorable for a bloke with toe. If he can’t do a job, next man up. Gibbo should be in the middle but he just gets on with doing as he is told.
Cripps on Sunday spent 100% of all centre stoppages in the middle. That sacrifices Dow's game as he isn't getting that midfield rotation from Cripps normally moving forward. Therefore, Dow isn't able to produce what he's capable of because he's spending 90% of his time on ground on a HFF.

Against Collingwood we were chucking everyone in the middle (and Cripps only had 58% of CBAs), but against Freo it was the opposite and slightly too simple. We need to get that perfect midfield structure and setup right.

Ideally you'd want Ed to stay as far away from a wing as possible, and be the only pure on-baller. Cripps, Williams and Walsh to rotate between on-ball/forward and on-ball/wing respectively. That would leave Dow with about 30% time on ground in the midfield, and the rest to be little spurts of Martin/Fog in the guts when needed.
 

CJMB

Premiership Player
Aug 30, 2017
4,059
13,422
Melbourne
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Carlton
I get what you are saying but, any player included in the side needs to do the job expected by the coach. Crack in a earn a spot in the middle or gtfo. Dow doesn’t look fit enough. His chasing efforts this season have been deplorable for a bloke with toe. If he can’t do a job, next man up. Gibbo should be in the middle but he just gets on with doing as he is told.
Who's CBAs should Gibbo be taking?
 

El Topo

Premiership Player
Jun 18, 2013
3,968
10,602
the wilderness
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Can someone please explain why Dow is only attending 10% of centre bounces? I get that most mids due to interchange restrictions are resting forward more, but surely attending just 3 of 29 centre bounces is taking the piss?

What's the point of persisting with him and playing him over Stocker/Kennedy etc. if we're not going to chuck him in the guts where he belongs?

The coaches have learned nothing from 2020. This kind of one dimensional midfield approach looks great when it works, but (like last year) we'll be picked apart by the good sides and burned out by the end of the year.
 

HaydossJ

All Australian
Oct 4, 2017
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The coaches have learned nothing from 2020. This kind of one dimensional midfield approach looks great when it works, but (like last year) we'll be picked apart by the good sides and burned out by the end of the year.
Disagree. We ran 4 regular midfielders (Cripps, Curnow, Walsh, and Williams) plus stints from Fogarty and Dow. This is how almost every other side runs their centre bounces. Go through the list and see for yourself.
 

thylacine60

Post-Human
Jun 4, 2006
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The coaches have learned nothing from 2020. This kind of one dimensional midfield approach looks great when it works, but (like last year) we'll be picked apart by the good sides and burned out by the end of the year.
Ever played at any level? Ever coached? Ever had plans that don't quite come off but are willing to persist? Ever worked with a group where your opinion isn't always the final one? I can't be bothered going through the history, playing and administrative experience of the people driving our club but when you think you know better and drop comments like "The coaches have learned nothing from 2020" I throw up in my mouth. That know-all sh*t is garbage because they've learned plenty and are still learning.
 

El Topo

Premiership Player
Jun 18, 2013
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Ever played at any level? Ever coached? Ever had plans that don't quite come off but are willing to persist? Ever worked with a group where your opinion isn't always the final one? I can't be bothered going through the history, playing and administrative experience of the people driving our club but when you think you know better and drop comments like "The coaches have learned nothing from 2020" I throw up in my mouth. That know-all sh*t is garbage because they've learned plenty and are still learning.
Mea culpa - how about, "the coaches are repeating their mistake from last year, that came back to bite us toward the end of the season". They're right to force Dow/Setterfield ect to learn positional play outside of the centre square, but good sides can't afford to be one dimensional, as we've been previously exposed to be.
 

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El Topo

Premiership Player
Jun 18, 2013
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Disagree. We ran 4 regular midfielders (Cripps, Curnow, Walsh, and Williams) plus stints from Fogarty and Dow. This is how almost every other side runs their centre bounces. Go through the list and see for yourself.
With the amount of mids we have in our 22, our numbers should be closer to those of a Collingwood/WB - four above 40%, with the next two below 14% suggests that we're underutilising our rotations.
 

CJMB

Premiership Player
Aug 30, 2017
4,059
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Melbourne
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The coaches have learned nothing from 2020. This kind of one dimensional midfield approach looks great when it works, but (like last year) we'll be picked apart by the good sides and burned out by the end of the year.
LadderClubNo. of non-ruck attendees% occupied by top 3% occupied by top 4% occupied by top 5
1WBD567%87%100%
2SYD669%87%99%
3MEL773%84%91%
4PTA863%77%87%
5WCE663%81%92%
6RIC871%87%96%
7GEE773%84%93%
8ADE577%92%100%
9GCS667%82%92%
10ESS772%87%96%
11COL768%81%91%
12CAR678%92%96%
13BRI865%79%88%
14HAW773%86%94%
15FRE767%86%93%
16STK966%76%82%
17GWS760%76%88%
18NTH1074%84%88%
 

CJMB

Premiership Player
Aug 30, 2017
4,059
13,422
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
actually, this might be easier to read. sorted by 'top 3'
LadderClubNo. of non-ruck attendees% occupied by top 3% occupied by top 4% occupied by top 5
12CAR678%92%96%
8ADE577%92%100%
18NTH1074%84%88%
3MEL773%84%91%
7GEE773%84%93%
14HAW773%86%94%
10ESS772%87%96%
6RIC871%87%96%
2SYD669%87%99%
11COL768%81%91%
1WBD567%87%100%
9GCS667%82%92%
15FRE767%86%93%
16STK966%76%82%
13BRI865%79%88%
4PTA863%77%87%
5WCE663%81%92%
17GWS760%76%88%
 

branedotorg

Premium Platinum
Nov 9, 2007
3,166
5,454
melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Cripps on Sunday spent 100% of all centre stoppages in the middle. That sacrifices Dow's game as he isn't getting that midfield rotation from Cripps normally moving forward. Therefore, Dow isn't able to produce what he's capable of because he's spending 90% of his time on ground on a HFF.

Against Collingwood we were chucking everyone in the middle (and Cripps only had 58% of CBAs), but against Freo it was the opposite and slightly too simple. We need to get that perfect midfield structure and setup right.

Ideally you'd want Ed to stay as far away from a wing as possible, and be the only pure on-baller. Cripps, Williams and Walsh to rotate between on-ball/forward and on-ball/wing respectively. That would leave Dow with about 30% time on ground in the midfield, and the rest to be little spurts of Martin/Fog in the guts when needed.
While i agree with you in principle the hard truth is Dow's not performing well enough to give him more time in there imo.
 

BigBreakfast

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 19, 2019
5,577
8,500
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Lakeshow
Cripps on Sunday spent 100% of all centre stoppages in the middle. That sacrifices Dow's game as he isn't getting that midfield rotation from Cripps normally moving forward. Therefore, Dow isn't able to produce what he's capable of because he's spending 90% of his time on ground on a HFF.

Against Collingwood we were chucking everyone in the middle (and Cripps only had 58% of CBAs), but against Freo it was the opposite and slightly too simple. We need to get that perfect midfield structure and setup right.

Ideally you'd want Ed to stay as far away from a wing as possible, and be the only pure on-baller. Cripps, Williams and Walsh to rotate between on-ball/forward and on-ball/wing respectively. That would leave Dow with about 30% time on ground in the midfield, and the rest to be little spurts of Martin/Fog in the guts when needed.
So, become the best half forward you can be. Gibbons manages. If he can't manage, next soldier up.
 

Cliffords Blues

RIP Clifford
Sep 10, 2016
1,662
3,893
WA
AFL Club
Carlton
He provides that all-important link up when we rebound, is always in the right spots. Not to mention he always wins or at least levels his 1v1's. His skills too.. mwa.

He has an aura of confidence about him now, looks like he finally knows he belongs out there. Whereas before I always thought he had a little bit of doubt in his eyes.

I was ******* furious when there were rumours of trading him last year, and even more furious when fans were ok with it as he was a 'battler'.

Easily the most criticized pick 70-something player in the history of the game, too.
James Hird: Hold my beer :)
 

Ash24

All Australian
Nov 3, 2020
975
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Baghdad Bombers, Melbourne United
So SFA.

Last week Dow had 3 centre bounce attendances and obviously Martin wasn’t there.

Is he playing on the middle ahead of Cripps, Curnow, Walsh, Williams, or Fogarty? They’re the only other players who lined up in the centre square.
Typically you have around 4 mids who attend 50% or more of centre bounces. For us, that's Cripps, Ed, Williams and Walsh. The 5th midfielder on the bench is usually a forward-mid. That's why Dow only attended 10% of centre bounces.

However, Cripps attended all 100% of centre bounces. We let Cripps rotate forward, it allows Dow more time in the guts. Simples.

(the 14% which Fog attended, most likely came from Williams' time spend forward, or multiple mids on the bench)
 

BigBreakfast

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 19, 2019
5,577
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Lakeshow
So SFA.

Last week Dow had 3 centre bounce attendances and obviously Martin wasn’t there.

Is he playing on the middle ahead of Cripps, Curnow, Walsh, Williams, or Fogarty? They’re the only other players who lined up in the centre square.
No, not regularly. He has however sucked it up and made himself best 22 by making himself a versatile small forward despite being a dominant mid at lower senior levels. Dow hasn’t done any of that and hasn’t displayed anywhere near the same level of flexibility. And he isn’t that considerably older than Dow either.
 

windows1

Club Legend
Sep 8, 2018
2,916
16,500
AFL Club
Carlton
Mea culpa - how about, "the coaches are repeating their mistake from last year, that came back to bite us toward the end of the season". They're right to force Dow/Setterfield ect to learn positional play outside of the centre square, but good sides can't afford to be one dimensional, as we've been previously exposed to be.
Impressive self control.
 

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