Roast Round 3 post game rant thread

[sherb]

Re: Not Happy!

No, no, no

The coach is responsible for drafting these players to the club in the first place

He has the resposibility for poor performance full stop

He has created the situation we find ourselves in now

1 and 2. Low confidence. No real game plan. Poor execution of basic skills. A nighmare run of opposition teams to come

If we are 1 and 6 or 1 and 8 I bet your tune will change significantly

I get you perfectly, the players have absolutely no responsibility for anything whatsoever.

 

[JuddyBuddy]

Re: Not Happy!

We are still a lot closer to a flag than the bummers

What makes you say that? Is it our perceived abundance of superior talent? Just curious, cause a lot of the stuff I hear and read all says the same thing, ie: Carlton have more promise for the future due to more talented youngsters, etc. etc. Yet...we can't seem to beat them???

 

[Dramoth]

Re: Not Happy!

No, no, no

The coach is responsible for drafting these players to the club in the first place

He has the resposibility for poor performance full stop

He has created the situation we find ourselves in now

1 and 2. Low confidence. No real game plan. Poor execution of basic skills. A nighmare run of opposition teams to come

If we are 1 and 6 or 1 and 8 I bet your tune will change significantly

No... no... no... the coach is not responsible for recruiting the players... he is responsible for drilling the players with the tactics and game plans. He is also responsible for overseeing the development coaches and evaluating where the skills of players are going.

We have development coaches who are responsible for developing the skills of the players and these guys do not seem to be doing their jobs properly.

Everyone looks at the guy at the top of the heap when it is the people beneath him holding him up for the scrutiny of others that lets him down and is creating this situation.

 

[Close to 17]

Re: Not Happy!

I get you perfectly, the players have absolutely no responsibility for anything whatsoever.

If you're happy to see things continue the way they are then fine. But you can't sack the players. The coach gets sacked because his players don't perform

Wait until we are down with Richmond and Melbourne in the borrom 4 after round 9

Tell me then who should be taking responsibiity

 

[The Coach]

Re: Not Happy!

Ok, Im only an intermintant poster but here is my perspective on tonight-and it's a perspective in working towards our next flag in 3 plus years time. As another poster said 'it's flags that count'. Yes we were so bad in so many areas tonight against an understrength bummers, but what is important is what everyone at the club from bootstudder to match commitee learn from the game.

Sure it hurts like s..t now,will it improve us in the long (next flag) term? Who knows but it's more games into a learning ruck division, more games builing leadership amongst the group without Judd,3 games into a new forward structure, working out who will and won't be in our next premiersip team and blooding a new youngster in Lucas.

We are still a lot closer to a flag than the bummers, save up the home and away embarrasments a give it to the back in spades when we win our 17th.

That's it, feel free to burn me......

BUT we need leaders. Murph tried bloody hard against the man who has Juddy's measure too and although he is not a leader does try to lift - remember last week folks. Sadly however you cannot go far w/o leaders and we would not have been rotating the captaincy if we even had an obvious No.2 IC

Agreed.

The modern phenomenon of no personal responsibility is being argued by some here, ie if the players don't play well it is somebody else's fault (in this case the coach).

Apparently the players aren't responsible for being 100% motivated, working on and improving their skills, implementing game plans to the letter, etc.

But if you are not up to scratch in any workplace Sherb - it is up to the boss to pull you into line

Agree with the 90% calling for Ratts's head. I hope Laidley can get away from Port?

Obviously have never heard Laidley address a team - terrible

 

[Close to 17]

Re: Not Happy!

No... no... no... the coach is not responsible for recruiting the players... he is responsible for drilling the players with the tactics and game plans. He is also responsible for overseeing the development coaches and evaluating where the skills of players are going.

We have development coaches who are responsible for developing the skills of the players and these guys do not seem to be doing their jobs properly.

Everyone looks at the guy at the top of the heap when it is the people beneath him holding him up for the scrutiny of others that lets him down and is creating this situation.

Mate

You can think that all you like but there is a reason the coach always gets sacked first

Because it is his job

 

[XXX KINGS]

Re: Walker vs Joe Anderson

Terrible skills by the whole team. Why am I not surprised that only certain ones get singled out though.

I think this one is worthy in particular, Walker is so disapointing.

 

[incog43]

Re: Not Happy!

No... no... no... the coach is not responsible for recruiting the players... he is responsible for drilling the players with the tactics and game plans. He is also responsible for overseeing the development coaches and evaluating where the skills of players are going.

We have development coaches who are responsible for developing the skills of the players and these guys do not seem to be doing their jobs properly.

We have tactics?
Ratten actually evaluates the skills of players?
We have kills coaches?

How do you get a job?

 

[Uhumagoo]

Re: Not Happy!

Rank that game as bad as the 2nd half blowout we had against the scum last year. Insipid, shocking use of the ball. No structure. Dissapointed is an understatement.

We looked off pace from the start. They bottled us up and forced turnovers because our midfiled and defence stalled going forward. Probably because we had Henderson blanketed by Fletcher, two short people and an Irish geezer to kick to.
Agree the Structure and skills killed us.

 

[JuddyBuddy]

Re: Not Happy!

Everyone looks at the guy at the top of the heap when it is the people beneath him holding him up for the scrutiny of others that lets him down and is creating this situation.

I agree, but it is like any workplace. Well, I assume so, anyway? Ratten is the boss, if you will, and the development and skills coaches are managers of certain departments. It's Ratts job to ensure those under him are doing their job aswell.

If it's not his job to be telling the skills coaches to pull their fingers out or **** off, then I'm damn sure it's someone elses and whoever's it is should be telling them to improve or **** off to Richmond.

 

[Close to 17]

Re: Not Happy!

Is he? I thought that was the job of the recruiting manager, but more importantly, 12 members of tonight's team were recruited prior to Ratts taking on the job. Maybe Denis Pagan should take some of the blame. You remember him, he coached North to 2 premierships, yet had no success at Carlton. Somewhere between the transition from North to Carlton, he lost his ability to motivate players, because it wasn't the 'cattle' he had at North that made him successful (they were no better than the list he had at Carlton, were they), just his incredible ability to motivate the players.

Recruiting manager. Yeh right. The coach tells the recruiting manager what type of player he wants and the recruiting manager shows him what is available and who he thinks is a good fit. Dennis Pagan did not have the respect of the playing group and the performance of the team reflected that. No time to stick our heads in the sand now

 

[sherb]

Re: Not Happy!

If you're happy to see things continue the way they are then fine. But you can't sack the players. The coach gets sacked because his players don't perform

Why on earth say something like that? Who says I am happy? I just take exception to the theory that fully professional employees of the club apparently need to have their hands held in order to perform at their best.

But you can't sack the players. The coach gets sacked because his players don't perform

And he also gets sacked because of the very thing you said yourself (bolded) - it is a lot more practical to remove one person than a heap of players.

Tell me then who should be taking responsibiity

Why can't it be a shared responsibility - ie between the coach, the coaching staff and the players?

Just because the coach is the one who inevitably takes the fall, it doesn't mean that it is all his fault.

If players aren't mature or professional enough to perform at their best - of their own volition - then they bear much of the responsibility for the coach's demise.

 

[jj1978]

Re: Not Happy!

Lets face facts... the Carlton brand is still damaged from the Elliot and spoon era... a bad season this year when we have so much potential would spell doom for Ratten as our membership will drop, our FTA coverage will be reduced (reducing potential sponsorship) and our gate receipts will fall.... we wont have a decent top 10 pick for the next couple of season to bring in interest.... but having a new coach...

 

[sherb]

Re: Not Happy!

Mate

You can think that all you like but there is a reason the coach always gets sacked first

Because it is his job

What's the "players' job" then?

 

[GCNavyBlue]

Re: Not Happy!

F***ing disgraceful, insipid performance tonight. Although still 3 + years away, Essendon much closer to number 17 than us. Hooker, Pears, Melksham, Hurley, Gumbleton, Houli, Dempsey, Daniher, Rheimers - all young as & massive upside.

All the talk is that we are closer and have a lot more talent? Where were Gibbs & Murphy all night - chasing apparently 2nd rate tail all night leading them to the ball, getting it first & using it better.

Our 'young gun' number 1 mids are all flashy, unaccountable, loose outside players who like getting kicks in space, whereas to be a quality team you need toughnuts who get dirty, in and under like Hayes, Selwood, Swan - remember what it was like to have Dog Brown, Gleeson, Diesel, Ratts - always fighting for the ball at the bottom of a pack.

FFS - back to the drawing board, perhaps we shouldnt have wasted three picks on a 2nd rate ruckmen when we developed 3 pretty good ones internally, and maybe we shouldnt have recruited the flashy small forward to crumb off a coleman medallist, when a dirty in and under with a left boot like a rocket launcher was available...

 

[WALKERTOBETTS]

Re: Walker vs Joe Anderson

Average? You are too kind.

Total Spud

Add Russell to the list. 3 spuds that need to find a new home next season.

Hack maybe

Hey, he is a spud, no need to be surprised at all ODN.

Yes, I agree the entire teams skills were woeful, but lets keep posts to less than 2 pages

Walker is a list clogger, has a few to keep him company though

By the way, I think Anderson is a borderline spud as well, so nothing personal against Andy Walker, its a real toss up between these two.

I think this one is worthy in particular, Walker is so disapointing.

FFS i'd hate to take you blokes to war, you'd fu*kin leave me there, wouldn't be surprise you blokes would find a hole to hide in:spade:
His been out of the game for how many seasons cause of injury's and you blokes want to put a bullet in him and fu*k him off, put on the boots and your self in that sought of environment and see how you go next you'd be knocking juddy and co

 

[sherb]

Re: Not Happy!

If it's not his job to be telling the skills coaches to pull their fingers out or **** off, then I'm damn sure it's someone elses and whoever's it is should be telling them to improve or **** off to Richmond.

Tell me this - if you were an AFL player whose skills needed improvement, would you wait for a coach to tell you to improve them or would you take it upon yourself to do so?

Remember, this is your immediate career you are talking about here.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Re: Walker vs Joe Anderson

10 Carlton players with worse disposal than Walker tonight.

My issue is that he tries to play an outside role too much when running through the midfield. He is supposed to be a hard nut, but likes to think he can do the fancy things. Go harder Walks!

 

[incog43]

Re: Not Happy!

FFS - back to the drawing board, perhaps we shouldnt have wasted three picks on a 2nd rate ruckmen when we developed 3 pretty good ones internally, and maybe we shouldnt have recruited the flashy small forward to crumb off a coleman medallist, when a dirty in and under with a left boot like a rocket launcher was available...

Oh no, this will get things going!

 

[Dennis]

Re: Not Happy!

I reckon I've posted in about 5 threads tonight about how shit taht was


...and I'm still fuming


We got beat by Reimers...**** me

 

[Premiership Quarter]

Re: Not Happy!

We looked off pace from the start. They bottled us up and forced turnovers because our midfiled and defence stalled going forward. Probably because we had Henderson blanketed by Fletcher, two short people and an Irish geezer to kick to.
Agree the Structure and skills killed us.

Thought Henderson lead and marked well tonight, there was some really good signs from him and Lucas as well.

Dont get me wrong I am so dirty about this loss. However it ran true to form. I cannot remember the last Carlton game against Essendon that we didnt play like that in. It was like I had been there before many times. There was barely a passage of play that got me excited, yet against brisbane there was plenty to get me off the chair. I actually cant remember the last time I got really pumped up in an Essendon game. We never seem to be able to get a run on against them. Is it just me or do others feel the same. I love beating them more than any other team but right now I never want to play them again because the real blues never come to play, though some might say the real blues did come to play.

 

[JuddyBuddy]

Re: Not Happy!

The players should all be on strict performance based contracts. If you don't perform up to an agreed standard than you get **** all. Zip. Zero dollars. No yearly wage, just a weekly wage that is based on your ability to give 100%. In fact, this should be the same for all clubs. Bring it in and watch the standard improve.

 

[The Coach]

Re: Not Happy!

We looked off pace from the start. They bottled us up and forced turnovers because our midfiled and defence stalled going forward. Probably because we had Henderson blanketed by Fletcher, two short people and an Irish geezer to kick to.
Agree the Structure and skills killed us.

And starting at the selection table, they planned to hurt us with pace

Your description of our forward set up is apt. Even when firing Carlos has looked Irish and the kid will take a couple more years. Without Waitey firing it is not a very exciting structure but this should not rule us out - take Saints last night - kept their strong backline intact as they know that it, along with their onballers can compensate for forward line.

Will watch it again but can anyone tell me what role Gibbsy was playing? Where he was lining up? Who was he minding or who was minding him?

 

[Close to 17]

Re: Not Happy!

Tell me this - if you were an AFL player whose skills needed improvement, would you wait for a coach to tell you to improve them or would you take it upon yourself to do so?

Remember, this is your immediate career you are talking about here.

You are a very naive

 

[incog43]

Re: Walker vs Joe Anderson

FFS i'd hate to take you blokes to war, you'd fu*kin leave me there, wouldn't be surprise you blokes would find a hole to hide in:spade:
His been out of the game for how many seasons cause of injury's and you blokes want to put a bullet in him and fu*k him off, put on the boots and your self in that sought of environment and see how you go next you'd be knocking juddy and co

Well mate if you were Walker I wouldnt want you in the same fox hole as me, you wouldnt be able to shoot straight.