Preview Round 4, 2020: St.Kilda v Richmond - Marvel Stadium, Saturday 27th June, 4:35PM AEST *MADDIE'S MATCH*

[plugger66]

OK I get it - if a bloke plays 80% of a game at half forward but starts in the centre square 6 times is he's actually a midfielder not a forward.

He started in he middle 30% of tge bounces. He only played78% of game time so I suggest it’s impossible to be at hal forward for 80% of the game.

 

[Saint believer]

Look very different to Richos teams in terms of play style.

We haven’t seen a lot of the long bomb.
We have numbers forward of the centre on the regular.
We aren’t seeing the switch switch switch turnover.
We are taking the game on.
We should be 2/1 not 1/2.


We have had a lot to get excited about. Especially this time last week. Challenge from Ratten is to deliver consistency

I like the message coming our with one change to the side and the rest getting another opportunity to improve. You can't expect a team to Gell and learn a new playing style if they are half wondering if the kick they are about to take could be their last in the seniors.

The big test is how do we respond? While I am often more hopeful than not. the evidence of the preseason, half of round 1 and almost all of round 2 bodes well for the medium long term. For me this week is not about a win (although I haven't written it off) it is about being better and team cohesion. It is being how good our coaching team is and how well our players learn.

Go Saints.

I am also excited to see Battle in!

 

[Max the great]

I was pleased with how effective Ryder was in the ruck against the dogs. His tap work is great in general... Where did I deny this?

Roma had his break out year last year and was dominant. Our finishing position shouldn't be used to diminish how good he was.

Of course I want team success more than individual success but as I stated I believe ROMA playing as a sole ruck has multiple positive effects going forward that will lead to team success.

It's amazing how much you took my post personally. I'm allowed to have my opinion on a situation and I'm certainly not going to attack you for yours.

You voiced these concerns after the dogs game I'm sure.
How on earth did we win like that with such a 'liability dinosaur' and our best player having his influence completely diminished?

Yes roma was our best player and an extra midfielder last year IN A TEAM THAT FINISHED 14TH (and sacked their coach)!

We are not in a position to have ANY sacred cows.
The team starts with a blank sheet of paper and is being built from scratch.

In order to fill that blank piece of paper, you need to answer questions you don't already know the answers to.

We KNOW what roma can do solo, now we are spending a few weeks finding out some answers to other questions.

So roma doesn't spend the next 5 years being a gem in cow dung.

 

[bird_man]

I thought the statement was pretty obvious to any poster who referred to him as a midfielder.

I thought most were suggesting he isn't a midfielder?

You've confused me mate, which probably isn't hard to do.

 

[ScrappyDo]

How does the make up of the team spell out development?
look at the games played demographic.

We don't have one draftee from last year in the side.
games played is more relevant

We have one from the year before.
who has played 3 games in total

What half of our senior core did we replace?
Stuv, Bruce, GOAT, Newnes, Armo, Brown.

We traded Bruce so we could play two rucks. no we didnt. One of which is over 30. Because he's temporary


We would not have traded away Steven if we had a say in it.
Doesn't matter. It was done.

If this year is only about development why have we waited until now to play Josh Battle who is one of our most promising young players?
you mean, waited till all of round 4?

Why are we only playing one player drafted over the last 2 years?
King, Wilkie, Hind, Marsh.
Only Bytel and Parker are missing from that draft year.
Connolly and Bell aren't ready, Byrnes will get a run.

We might be trying to develop areas of our game, much like every other club, but we are clearly picking a side to win every week.
picking to win each week doesn't mean we're not in a development phase. If we were hell bent on winning every game we'd be playing Jimmy not Coff and Bruce not Ryder.

As above..

 

[plugger66]

As above..

Just out of interest the wb flag winning side averaged 49 games was 24.144 years of age and had 6 21 and younger. Last week we averaged 46.6 games 24.295 years of age and had 3 21 and younger. I’m confused how wb won a flag in a development year.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Just out of interest the wb flag winning side averaged 49 games was 24.144 years of age and had 6 21 and younger. Last week we averaged 46.6 games 24.295 years of age and had 3 21 and younger. I’m confused how wb won a flag in a development year.

The dogs had an established senior core.
Every rebuild is different, and we aren't the Western Bulldogs.
How have they gone without that senior core since that year?

 

[bird_man]

As above..

Forgot Wilkie.

Marsh wasn't taken in the draft. He's an ex AFL footballer who was picked up in the supplementary period.

So King and Wilkie the only 2 players taken in the last 2 drafts in the side.

It's hard to argue King and Wilkie aren't quite easily best 22.

Doesn't matter that King has only played 3 games. He's our leading goal kicker. He deserves his spot.

Armo was cooked. He would have been delisted at any club. Brown isn't good enough to be in the side, Howard is an upgrade. Neither Newnes or Acres would be best 22.

Yes it's round 4, but if this was.truly a development year we'd have Battle playing every game.

Not sure why you are so sure Byrnes will get a run. If he does it's most likely because the coach thinks he's best 22

 

[lewdogs]

If it were a development year we'd be playing Bytel and Byrnes. No doubt in my mind we are out there to win every week.

 

[plugger66]

The dogs had an established senior core.
Every rebuild is different, and we aren't the Western Bulldogs.
How have they gone without that senior core since that year?

We have a senior core and they are all playing. No interest about how they are going now. The stats suggest we are similar in every department.

 

[bird_man]

The dogs had an established senior core.
Every rebuild is different, and we aren't the Western Bulldogs.
How have they gone without that senior core since that year?

Every club has an established senior core

 

[Joffaboy]

So went down to training today after confirming it was on at 10.00 am.

10.30, half a dozen twos players come out, kick the footy for 15 minutes, everything packed up and thats it.

Why bother telling people its on at 10.00 and change it or don't do it?

A waste of my time. Won't bother in future.

We wonder why supporters get pissed off.

 

[The_Steadier]

If it were a development year we'd be playing Bytel and Byrnes. No doubt in my mind we are out there to win every week.

It's only round 4, I'm sure they'll get games soon enough.

Nobody is saying we are outright tanking.

Merely that there appears to be a large appetite to persist with young players who aren't doing much, despite there being ready made senior replacements waiting in the wings.

 

[mightymalaka]

If it were a development year we'd be playing Bytel and Byrnes. No doubt in my mind we are out there to win every week.

You quite simply have to be!
We are not in a position as a club where we can afford to right off what appears to be season after.season development years.we have had enough.
Sure with a new coach we should be looking to how to improve the best talent we can at the club.
But to be quite honest this current side has no more excuses. It needs to start a .winning culture. And begin showing us all what they are capable of on a consistent basis.
No way do I believe that last week's insipid performance was a true indicator of this teams ability and a reflection of how much better Coll are.
We need to be better and for longer on a consistent basis. This team is capable enough, whether they are mentally mature or strong enough is the big question.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Forgot Wilkie.

Marsh wasn't taken in the draft. He's an ex AFL footballer who was picked up in the supplementary period.

It's hard to argue King and Wilkie aren't quite easily best 22.

Doesn't matter that King has only played 3 games. He's our leading goal kicker. He deserves his spot.

Armo was cooked. He would have been delisted at any club. Brown isn't good enough to be in the side, Howard is an upgrade. Neither Newnes or Acres would be best 22.

Yes it's round 4, but if this was.truly a development year we'd have Battle playing every game.

Not sure why you are so sure Byrnes will get a run. If he does it's most likely because the coach thinks he's best 22

Each of those senior players was dispensed for different reasons, but the reasons matter not. The shear quantity of them amounts to a seismic shift, and the ones we traded or retired were all best 22 when fit.

The concept of being a development year isn't black or white either. It's a transition.
We're not starting from the beginning, but neither are we at the end.

We failed to launch under Richo for a myriad of reasons, and now we've reset are are off in a different direction, developing a new game plan, with new players requiring a period of learning and shuffling of selections and rolls which is an opportune time to play Marshall forward for a bit.

Surely having Marshall be our best mid is not an acceptable situation to be in.
Our true mids must learn to win on their own merits when Roma isn't winning clearance and CPs to help them look better than they are. They too must develop.

 

[ScrappyDo]

If it were a development year we'd be playing Bytel and Byrnes. No doubt in my mind we are out there to win every week.

I'm very sure I've never said we're not trying to win.
But if Byrnes or Bytel get a game does that mean we are in a development phase?

 

[ScrappyDo]

We have a senior core and they are all playing. No interest about how they are going now. The stats suggest we are similar in every department.

But they won a flag and we are still in the bottom half. That tells me your stats don't mean squat..

 

[plugger66]

But they won a flag and we are still in the bottom half. That tells me your stats don't mean squat..

What means squat is thinking a club like us are in development when we have an average age higher than a side who won a flag. And we recruited 5 ready made players You would have to be a completely moronic club if you really think that is development. And we aren’t a club who can continue to have development years

 

[bird_man]

Each of those senior players was dispensed for different reasons, but the reasons matter not. The shear quantity of them amounts to a seismic shift, and the ones we traded or retired were all best 22 when fit.

The concept of being a development year isn't black or white either. It's a transition.
We're not starting from the beginning, but neither are we at the end.

We failed to launch under Richo for a myriad of reasons, and now we've reset are are off in a different direction, developing a new game plan, with new players requiring a period of learning and shuffling of selections and rolls which is an opportune time to play Marshall forward for a bit.

Surely having Marshall be our best mid is not an acceptable situation to be in.
Our true mids must learn to win on their own merits when Roma isn't winning clearance and CPs to help them look better than they are. They too must develop.

I'm not going to bother arguing anymore, but If the club were to come out this week and tell us we are in a development year after we've just traded out the majority of two years worth of draft picks whilst at the same time only playing two players taken in thr draft in the last 2 years (one of which is a mature age recruit) I'd seriously consider handing in my membership.

Of course we are transitioning. We have a new coach and a heap of new recruits. It will take time to gel. But this is very different to a development year.

 

[ScrappyDo]

What means squat is thinking a club like us are in development when we have an average age higher than a side who won a flag. And we recruited 5 ready made players You would have to be a completely moronic club if you really think that is development. And we aren’t a club who can continue to have development years

We can agree to disagree, but l think You would have to be a completely moronic club to belive that replacing 5 seniors, a coach, a game plan, with a 3 game FF would instantly click and be more effective because of some irrelevant statistical association with some other club from 5 years ago.
But l don't think stkilda is that silly, so l believe they have some development to do and that they are aware of it, even if supporters are not.

 

[plugger66]

We can agree to disagree, but l think You would have to be a completely moronic club to belive that replacing 5 seniors, a coach, a game plan, with a 3 game FF would instantly click and be more effective because of some irrelevant statistical association with some other club from 5 years ago.
But l don't think stkilda is that silly, so l believe they have some development to do and that they are aware of it, even if supporters are not.

You are calling the year a development year. I’m saying we are trying to win but developing certain things which even Richmond would be doing. Anyway you and me aren’t changing our mind. And as usual I’m right and everyone else is only right if they agree with me

 

[Saintbloke]

The dogs had an established senior core.
Every rebuild is different, and we aren't the Western Bulldogs.
How have they gone without that senior core since that year?

I think the WB style of play that year caught a lot of teams out - manic movement of the ball, coupled with a few ball-magnets running around. They played as a team and were well balanced across the field. Other teams woke up after that and nullified some of that style when playing the WB

 

[Mat Mann]

If i see Marsh in the midfield again ill spew

I've got a bucket on its way over

 

[DarkSaint]

Last night watching the dogs and swans game got me thinking about our side and in particular our mids.

One of my best mates is a dogs supporter, so kept a close eye on their side last year and this year to a degree. Bailey Smith started pretty much for first 6 or 7 games for them last season and was played predominantly on ball. I can tell you right now, I thought he was rushed, an average kick and we both questioned the pick up and who on earth Bevo was playing him on ball with th3 quality that they have. He wasn't played on the half back line, half forward line but purely in the middle. He was towelled up, run down and got caught holding the ball more times than I can remember, but Bevo stuck far.

Towards the latter half of the year the kid got more confident and started to rack up 20-25 pretty much every game and have an actual impact. He was having games were he would hit high numbers earlier on then would drop back down to 15 or so.

Fast forward his 2nd pre season and he is their second most important player behind Bont. We are talking about a Dogs midfield containing the likes of AA calibre players in Bont, Dunkley, McRae, Hunter, Libba etc.

Now I get back to our side, we have had arguable one of the worse midfields over the last 6-8 years. In that time we have had the same players time and time again with little or no development with trying others to run through there.

I look at it now, Clark give him 10-15 games purely on ball. Yes he will only average 15 or so for the first 10, but watch is confidence grow after that. Do the same thing for Coffield as well, see what he can do, he played a bit through their in his juniors etc. We seem to stick every young player either on a half back flank or a forward flank and say we need to develop your body etc. There is always some sort of excuse for us.

Heck we have Sinclair who is naturally one of our better kicks. Has he ever been given a period of 10-15 games as a pure mid??? Has a strong body/endurance beast/can kick a ball and has a footy brain. Nope half forward or wing the whole time.

For whatever reason we do not back our young players in and throw them in the thick of it. The only one is King and that has actually surprised me that we have thrown him in giving him game time. Look at him, our best forward and hasn't looked out of place.

Change up the bloody midfield and I don't mean by throwing Marsh in there!!

Rant over!

 

[CaptainRisky]

I'm very sure I've never said we're not trying to win.
But if Byrnes or Bytel get a game does that mean we are in a development phase?

Nope , it will just mean we may have finally found some mids , Id bet my lefty the Byrnes boy will get a game or two this year , he really isnt up against a bunch of A graders , lets be honest