Game Day Round 4, 2020: Sydney Swans vs Western Bulldogs @ SCG, 7:40pm, 25 June

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brad cooper

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Was just a truly strange game of footy, largely because we back-pedalled on so many of the things that worked out for us last week, and largely because so much of that back-pedalling was self-inflicted.

Credit where it's due, Horse did really well at the selection table last week, and I said as much last week. But you have to be able to acknowledge the good and the bad. He had a bit of a shocker tonight. The three talls didn't work. Of course it's easy to say that in hindsight, but he took a gamble, and not only did it not work out, it didn't work out at all. I respect the gamble because I also shared his optimism in it. But the fact is I think a lot could've gone differently if we had a more mobile forward line, and Horse & co have gotta take some responsibility for that.

Not sure what he was doing with Mills. He's shown a lack of total willingness to move Mills out of defence when there have been plenty of situations where we've been crying out for it. Then he randomly decides that at half time of a match where the damage has already been done, he'll allow it. Again, not against it because it sorta worked out and I get the logic. But it was very peculiar.

Not sure what he was doing with Rowbottom either. Seemed to have really found his feet after 13 CBAs last week. You would think being a 19 year old you'd maybe wanna carry that on and see what he can do. Tonight he had 5 CBAs. The kid made lemonade out of lemons - second in clearances, tackles and pressure acts of all Swans, third in contested possessions - but yet again, a peculiar decision to make that change perhaps unnecessarily. Made even worse when you realise Bailey Smith who is the same age was given 18 CBAs for the Bulldogs.

Just a strange night from Horse. Contrary to popular belief he is not some stiff who refuses to try things and experiment. But tonight it felt like there was a bit too much of it going on, and it was unnecessary after what was actually a really good team performance last week, despite some weak links.
I reckon we lacked a tall forward vs Ess rd2, but that was against Hurley, Hooker and Francis, we weren't up against that type of quality tall defender tonight, so in agrreance no need for one of sinkers or Naismith.
 

caesar88

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I've been really enjoying your comments of late. I don't agree with everything, but you have a good way of delivering the message.

I actually liked what horse did tonight by throwing players around. We saw a few sparks that can hopefully be capitalised on, although I don't know if they will be.
Cheers! Ditto! I appreciate everyone's views on here and it's even better when everyone does so differently. Even when I cop an abbreviation from bedford.

Yeah I was pleasantly surprised by the result of a few of the moves. I just think maybe had he not been so, for lack of better words, experimental after last week, we might not have needed the moves to be made.
 

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brad cooper

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i only saw from halfway thru 3rd can someone let me know the following as I'm not gonna bother watching it.

1. Did Rowbottom play half back in stages or for majority of match.
2. How long was Mills in mids for and was it just for tagging Bont?
 

Superstar swan

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I am one of Blakey’s biggest fans and think he will be a gun, but right now , he is not contributing and does not deserve a spot

ronke to be delisted at the end of the year , he is not AFL standard.
Cunningham absolutely butchered the ball tonight and likewise should be dropped.

tonight was rampe’s worst game I can remember.Don’t want to be too critical because he is a rock down there and everyone has off days, but the fact is , he was poor tonight.

the mills move was good and proved to be effective.

mck tries his absolute guts out, love what he brings.
Rowbottom is starting to look accomplished

aliir has been poor all year , yea he is still spoiling the ball on most occasions but he is not intercepting and he is lacking the dash

We really need to put some effort into McLean. Like all young Talls he struggles to find the ball, but his attack is brutal. Decent mobility for a big unit aswell.

heeney needs to sort his goal kicking out. Really is starting to effect us.

parker is a warrior and is a very good player but he severely lacks footy iq. Too many times he flat out makes the wrong decision and trys to pull off pointless 8m kicks that almost always result in a turnover.

called a haywood to half back move last week and glad it happened tonight. He’s lost his mojo up forward but looked more relaxed when he moved. I’d give him mills spot and move mills into the Guts for a month or so.

I know Sinclair cops it, but he busts his gut every opportunity he gets. Deserves to be best 22
 

caesar88

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i only saw from halfway thru 3rd can someone let me know the following as I'm not gonna bother watching it.

1. Did Rowbottom play half back in stages or for majority of match.
2. How long was Mills in mids for and was it just for tagging Bont?
Both basically the entire second half. Rowbottom would push up from half back but started there and hung around the outside a lot in a bit of a Lloyd-circa-2018 look. Mills went to Bontempelli at half time and initially seemed to be strictly tagging him but then as the game went on seemed to start winning his own balls and a few clearances a bit more.
 

caesar88

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I am one of Blakey’s biggest fans and think he will be a gun, but right now , he is not contributing and does not deserve a spot

ronke to be delisted at the end of the year , he is not AFL standard.
Cunningham absolutely butchered the ball tonight and likewise should be dropped.

tonight was rampe’s worst game I can remember.Don’t want to be too critical because he is a rock down there and everyone has off days, but the fact is , he was poor tonight.

the mills move was good and proved to be effective.

mck tries his absolute guts out, love what he brings.
Rowbottom is starting to look accomplished

aliir has been poor all year , yea he is still spoiling the ball on most occasions but he is not intercepting and he is lacking the dash

We really need to put some effort into McLean. Like all young Talls he struggles to find the ball, but his attack is brutal. Decent mobility for a big unit aswell.

heeney needs to sort his goal kicking out. Really is starting to effect us.

parker is a warrior and is a very good player but he severely lacks footy iq. Too many times he flat out makes the wrong decision and trys to pull off pointless 8m kicks that almost always result in a turnover.

called a haywood to half back move last week and glad it happened tonight. He’s lost his mojo up forward but looked more relaxed when he moved. I’d give him mills spot and move mills into the Guts for a month or so.

I know Sinclair cops it, but he busts his gut every opportunity he gets. Deserves to be best 22
As a midfielder he does.

As a forward he is absolutely elite, everything from his reading of the play as a marking target, to kicking freak goals from nothing, to nailing set-shots from any angle or position.
 

Dubai Quacker

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As a midfielder he does.

As a forward he is absolutely elite, everything from his reading of the play as a marking target, to kicking freak goals from nothing, to nailing set-shots from any angle or position.
Agreed re: Parker forward.

He’s always dangerous when forward.

But he and JPK remain the only real “grunt” at the stoppages. Which is why I’m so keen to see what Warner might develop into. I was really pleased to hear his name called.
 

caesar88

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Agreed re: Parker forward.

He’s always dangerous when forward.

But he and JPK remain the only real “grunt” at the stoppages. Which is why I’m so keen to see what Warner might develop into. I was really pleased to hear his name called.
I don't think they're the only grunt at stoppages. I think Horse has just got to back the youngsters in even more than he already does. Beveridge has somehow found a way to give Bailey Smith who is 19 as many opportunities in a midfield that already boasts names like Bontempelli, Macrae, Liberatore and Dunkley.

Last week I thought our strength was that Florent and Rowbottom were sharing the load with JPK and Parker. It meant we were less reliant on those two, they looked better for it, the youngsters got involved more, and the whole dynamic of the midfield changed. He's done it before, just gotta have confidence to do it more.
 

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Jack2Jack

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Shocking first half...far too stagnant, had a crack in the 2nd half, skills were sloppy but at least had a go. If the goal kicking wasn't so poor at least might given them more of a scare. Out-marked by their defenders too often though, not nearly enough ball came to ground in our forward line for our small forwards.

- Papley was awesome and is close to the best small forward in the comp. Absolutely must retain him.
- Kennedy had a good second half after understandably being a but down. Positive is he can still have a massive impact, negative is we're still very reliant on him...we always have been to some extent, but he shouldn't have to carry guys at 32.
- Parker was the one who was good throughout.
- Heeney still a bit of a yoyo, probably be BOG next week. He was way too slow with ball in hand today, took half an hour to make a decision..and still made a horrible one at the end of it.
- Shocking news for Naismith, not only for him personally but from an on-field football point of view as well...means likely another year of Sinclair getting smacked in the ruck week in, week out. Getting a ruck has to be the no 1. off-season priority...can't be easy to build a midfield when you have to be reactive all the time.
- Getting a true KPD is probably the next priority after a ruck...need to try and free up Rampe a little bit and Allir can't play as a true KPD, despite his size, seems he'll only ever be a 3rd tall.....had an absolute shocker tonight....but as did the entire defence as a whole group.
- At-least we tried a few things and threw the team around with some positional changes in the 2nd half...not necessarily something we've done in similar situations in the past....probably need to drop a few though, have been carrying a few too many passengers despite playing pretty well in the first 3 rounds.
 

caesar88

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I also couldn't help but laugh at the gall of Garry Lyon to complain post-match that Heeney was being used in the one position the whole game.

I literally heard him in a game last year bitching about how we needed to settle on a position for Heeney already.

Go cry on a stretcher you flip-flopping flog.
 

SGBeach

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rowbottom down back did some nice work, his pressure was good

mcinnereny does nice things, like to see more ball in his Hands
Yep.. McInerney has been good this year, hard, committed, quick and makes good decisions..
Do people remember he played one game last year and was terrible! He wasn't ready (nb. Gould, Stephens, Ling, Warner, Taylor, Foot) Im sure Horse wants to see what these guys can do, but to throw them in too early won't help them. Ill trust his judgement.
 

wills2g

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Yep.. McInerney has been good this year, hard, committed, quick and makes good decisions..
Do people remember he played one game last year and was terrible! He wasn't ready (nb. Gould, Stephens, Ling, Warner, Taylor, Foot) Im sure Horse wants to see what these guys can do, but to throw them in too early won't help them. Ill trust his judgement.
yep, it was way too early for McCartin, McLean and Blakey tbh
 

LukeParkerno1

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we've had 1 top 10 pick in the last 10 years.. how do you propose we 'hit the top end of the draft'?
Get a pick before our first academy this year, whether that be from our finishing position or an upgrade of our first. Firmly believe we need an elite mid or two. We have enough workhorses, we need that top end quality in our engine room. Look at how much a difference Rozee has made for Port, or Bailey Smith for the Dogs, etc.
 

LukeParkerno1

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Tank is what LP1 is proposing.

In a roundabout way.
Never said that actually. However we need to look at the bigger picture. I don't want the club to build a side to come 6th, I would prefer to build one to win premiershiips. You need top end talent for that, especially in the middle.

I've said this year is a developing year, whether we win or lose that is a secondary thing personally. I want to see the players developing. I also want us to get some games into our kids (within reason- meaning you don't play all of them). However you don't need to play your Fox, Cunningham, etc types to try and keep the margin down.
 

caesar88

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Never said that actually. However we need to look at the bigger picture. I don't want the club to build a side to come 6th, I would prefer to build one to win premiershiips. You need top end talent for that, especially in the middle.

I've said this year is a developing year, whether we win or lose that is a secondary thing personally. I want to see the players developing. I also want us to get some games into our kids (within reason- meaning you don't play all of them). However you don't need to play your Fox, Cunningham, etc types to try and keep the margin down.
The two bolded do not go hand-in-hand.

If you want to develop the team properly, the most effective way to do that is by winning. And the way to do that is by adding experience, not youth, to the already youth-heavy side we've got. Ideally we have better experienced bodies than the likes of Fox and Cunningham, so I agree there, but I think it's better than throwing in Stephens, Gould or Warner before their time, spending another year in the cellar, and compromising the confidence of the players in the team.

I think where the solution may lie is not in the personnel in the 22, but how we use them.

We've gotta tinker with the game plan a bit more to get it in Dawson's hands more, and have him actually in attacking positions, rather than on the last line of defence.

We've gotta persist with the glimpses of Lloyd further up the ground that we've seen to start this year.

We've gotta give Rowbottom more opportunities in the midfield to grow his confidence and in turn take the load off JPK and Parker, making them better.

We've gotta work on lowering our eyes to find up the likes of Heeney and Papley inside 50 in the absence of any genuine key forward target.

We've gotta get an in-form Blakey and Hayward up and about again, instead of languishing in the background.

We've gotta get all the mids in general, but particularly our point-of-difference Florent, learning to shark the opposition ruckman's taps.

This can all be achieved without having to turn to 18 year olds, and commit what is essentially tanking disguised as "developing".
 

LukeParkerno1

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The two bolded do not go hand-in-hand.

If you want to develop the team properly, the most effective way to do that is by winning. And the way to do that is by adding experience, not youth, to the already youth-heavy side we've got. Ideally we have better experienced bodies than the likes of Fox and Cunningham, so I agree there, but I think it's better than throwing in Stephens, Gould or Warner before their time, spending another year in the cellar, and compromising the confidence of the players in the team.

I think where the solution may lie is not in the personnel in the 22, but how we use them.

We've gotta tinker with the game plan a bit more to get it in Dawson's hands more, and have him actually in attacking positions, rather than on the last line of defence.

We've gotta persist with the glimpses of Lloyd further up the ground that we've seen to start this year.

We've gotta give Rowbottom more opportunities in the midfield to grow his confidence and in turn take the load off JPK and Parker, making them better.

We've gotta work on lowering our eyes to find up the likes of Heeney and Papley inside 50 in the absence of any genuine key forward target.

We've gotta get an in-form Blakey and Hayward up and about again, instead of languishing in the background.

We've gotta get all the mids in general, but particularly our point-of-difference Florent, learning to shark the opposition ruckman's taps.

This can all be achieved without having to turn to 18 year olds, and commit what is essentially tanking disguised as "developing".
See that's where we see things differently. Would say Gould and Warner who are probably the two most ready do any worse than Fox or Cunningham? I don't see why these two can't play. Adding more experienced list cloggers won't help us win games. In a way I'll be beyond happy if list sizes get cut, some of our squad are very ordinary lets be honest for a second. I don't feel adding your Thurlow, Clarke, Taylor types has helped one single bit.

I do think there were good things though tonight

a) Mills FINALLY got some midfield time (Praise on Earth it finally happened...only took about 5 years)
b) Hayward was awful up forward but I did feel down back there was something there. Whether that can be developed in an AFL setting I'm unsure of, but it is worth a go. If it keeps Mills in the midfield, then keep Hayward back.
c) Rowbottom is very good, he needs more genuine onball time though, put Parker forward a bit.

I get your point I do but just playing experience for the sake of it isn't the right answer either.

I'm not saying chuck all the experience out, but 1-2 more isn't a bad thing. Gould and Warner at the least should play next week. Stephens probably isn't ready but if we can just play him outside rather than inside he would be fine too. The first two should play.
 
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