Preview Round 4, 2021: Fremantle v Hawthorn, 11 April 2021, 4.40pm AEST @ Optus Stadium

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darthmann

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Take the Richmond game for example. We only managed 14 shots on goal for the entire match. Mitchell had the footy 37 times and gained less than 200m with his disposal, around the same as O'Brien that day. Nothing he did caused any headaches to the opposition. He was calling for the ball when not in the correct position to receive it, then being forced into short kicks or backwards handballs putting more pressure on his side and not moving us forward.

Interestingly, Cam Guthrie against us last Monday had 43 disposals for the same metres gained as Titch the week before. If Dangerfield plays and has 43 touches we lose by about 4 or 5 goals minimum. You know he would be trying to advance the ball at every opportunity giving his forwards more chances.

Titch is a great midfielder in a sense that he guaranteed to find a heap of the ball every week. Does that strike fear into the opposition though? I'd argue no. Is it entirely his fault? Also no. If we had a Merrett or a Kelly for Titch to feed the ball out to then we could overlook the low metres gained a little more. Unfortunately O'Meara is usually inside fighting for contested footy alongside Titch as opposed to being the release option.

It's still my wish that Wingard becomes the Yang to Mitchells Ying as the seasons progresses. That will instantly make Mitchells game more effective.
Yeah he's not the most damaging mid but that isn't his role. He provides a link up play and a pressure relief very often all over the ground due to his extremely high work rate. He sets up his teammates to succeed and bails them out if they're on the verge of failure.

People talk about 'non-effective' 37 disposals but unless they're all turnovers the very fact someone can be involved in the play that much and provide a team with opportunities to create something means they don't really belong in the same sentence together.

I can't speak to the putting teammates under pressure thing due to calling for it in bad positions as I don't remember seeing any of it but was at the game so harder to tell

Titchells strength is just different to the typical midfielder so people tend to just look at meters gained or goal assists or I50s, when he's more of a Dane Swan, death by a thousand cuts type player, overwhelming the opposition with the weight of numbers and keeping chains moving. Preventing turnovers and goals etc.

Like yeah, he could get the ball 37 times every game, bomb it long every game and win the meters gained stat every year without compromising his DE% because CD counts kicks to contests as effective. There's a lot of flaws with all these stats especially when measuring a unique mid like Titch

So yeah. He wasn't fantastic vs Richmond, but people seem to think he's not good. Which is bullshit. He's extremely good.
 

darthmann

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Take the Richmond game for example. We only managed 14 shots on goal for the entire match. Mitchell had the footy 37 times and gained less than 200m with his disposal, around the same as O'Brien that day. Nothing he did caused any headaches to the opposition. He was calling for the ball when not in the correct position to receive it, then being forced into short kicks or backwards handballs putting more pressure on his side and not moving us forward.

Interestingly, Cam Guthrie against us last Monday had 43 disposals for the same metres gained as Titch the week before. If Dangerfield plays and has 43 touches we lose by about 4 or 5 goals minimum. You know he would be trying to advance the ball at every opportunity giving his forwards more chances.

Titch is a great midfielder in a sense that he guaranteed to find a heap of the ball every week. Does that strike fear into the opposition though? I'd argue no. Is it entirely his fault? Also no. If we had a Merrett or a Kelly for Titch to feed the ball out to then we could overlook the low metres gained a little more. Unfortunately O'Meara is usually inside fighting for contested footy alongside Titch as opposed to being the release option.

It's still my wish that Wingard becomes the Yang to Mitchells Ying as the seasons progresses. That will instantly make Mitchells game more effective.
and yes your point re: Wingard is accurate. They would work really together, and we saw the effectiveness of it in early 2020 before it all went to sh*t
 

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darthmann

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Seems to be the case with Mitchell and Worpel, but isn't that a coaching issue?
yeah it has to be

I don't think our midfield has really been that bad this year anyway, we just lack a bit of composure, skilled ball-users and forward structure

we're pretty low on clearances but I mean, so are richmond, Brisbane and port
 

eldorado

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Anyone who says 'oh, he won the ball lots but it didn't hurt the opposition' by looking at 'yardage', just needs to go play with their stats, because qualitative thinking isn't for you.

If Mitchell wins the ball 37 times, that's 37 times the opposition didn't.

If he handballs 4 metres backward to someone clear, who can then find a teammate under less pressure, feel free to point out "Ooh, he lost yardage" as if that meant anything. Regardless of whether the next man in the chain was able to gain 'metres' or not.

I'm not saying Mitchells possessions are all gold, there are some that are more productive than others. However, I can gain absolutely NO understanding of this by looking at metres gained. Wow, he got it 35 times and only gained 200 metres. That means he was exactly as useful as the guy who roosted it 4 times from the full back line.

I look at his game as a whole; where was he when he got the ball?, was he under pressure? did he find a teammate? was the teammate in a better position?

Without lookin at context and subtext, 'metres gained' is just trivia.
 
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burner1

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With our current midfield mix we need to be dominating the clearances as our own clearances aren’t that effective (rushed kicks out of packs) and the oppositions are generally a lot cleaner (eg see how easily cats moved the ball out the contest).

Saying the reason our midfield isn’t working is a coaching issue is like saying the reason howe can’t kick 60m bullet passes and run like CJ is a coaching issue or that the reason last years backline of BB, stratts and Frawley sucked at rebounding was a coaching issue. The personnel in there don’t have the right mix of skills to work as a group.

If Fyfe and Mundy can get first hands to the ball there’s a reasonable chance freo’s younger mids cause us some headaches.
 

cryptor

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Anyone who says 'oh, he won the ball lots but it didn't hurt the opposition' by looking at 'yardage', just needs to go play with their stats, because qualitative thinking isn't for you.

If Mitchell wins the ball 37 times, that's 37 times the opposition didn't.

If he handballs 4 metres backward to someone clear, who can then find a teammate under less pressure, feel free to point out "Ooh, he lost yardage" as if that meant anything. Regardless of whether the next man in the chain was able to gain 'metres' or not.

I'm not saying Mitchells possessions are all gold, there are some that are more productive than others. However, I can gain absolutely NO understanding of this by looking at metres gained. Wow, he got it 35 times and only gained 200 metres. That means he was exactly as useful as the guy who roosted it 4 times from the full back line.

I look at his game as a whole; where was he when he got the ball?, was he under pressure? did he find a teammate? was the teammate in a better position?

Without lookin at context and subtext, 'metres gained' is just trivia.
I agree, we need an 'assisted meters gained' or a 'meters gained involvement' stat.
 

darthmann

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Give me quality over quantity everyday of the week.

37 touches against tigers, neither coach gave him a vote. enough said.
that's a far too black and white perspective when looking at a complex game like AFL

i never said he was great vs the Tiges, but he denies the opposition the ball and delivers the ball to the players that are damaging, not to mention clearances, tackles, bailing out teammates and so on

you need an abundance of players with different strengths and weaknesses in a side. i mean he won a ******* brownlow. go watch his 2018 highlights. he came 2nd in our BnF last year coming off a horrible broken leg and playing with a bung shoulder.

seriously, just read this article, it explains his value far better than I ever could

 

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rogiebear93

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that's a far too black and white perspective when looking at a complex game like AFL

i never said he was great vs the Tiges, but he denies the opposition the ball and delivers the ball to the players that are damaging, not to mention clearances, tackles, bailing out teammates and so on

you need an abundance of players with different strengths and weaknesses in a side. i mean he won a ******* brownlow. go watch his 2018 highlights. he came 2nd in our BnF last year coming off a horrible broken leg and playing with a bung shoulder.

seriously, just read this article, it explains his value far better than I ever could

Sometimes he does, I like Tom Mitchell as a player and I think his work rate and effort are invaluable - he offers an outlet and helps us move the ball from D50 a fair bit, but it'd still be preferable for him to be more involved in scoring chains.
 

darthmann

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Sometimes he does, I like Tom Mitchell as a player and I think his work rate and effort are invaluable - he offers an outlet and helps us move the ball from D50 a fair bit, but it'd still be preferable for him to be more involved in scoring chains.
of course, there's flaws to his game like there is every player in the AFL, even Dusty. I feel like he is involved in a lot of our scoring chains too, especially in R1. As we've established, not so much vs Richmond or Geelong, but his 2nd half vs Essendon was the difference-maker

but his value is as an outlet and defensive relief, as well as superb contested ball-work and elite hands. i don't really think we need to make him into a player he isn't
 

cryptor

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We have to start kicking more than 8 goals a game to justify the prime time slots.

We are definetly playing a more attacking brand of football but our offensive game / forward line looks very sub par at the moment.
We struggled to score heavily against Richmond and Geelong because the game got largely played on their terms which suffocated our ball movement and made entering forward 50 very challenging - of course, not discounting that we also didn't make the most of those opportunities ourselves.

I'm expecting our scoring to improve over our next few games.
 

Noel Gallagher

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I am concerned about our midfield being too one dimensional and have been since the glory threepeat years. Having said that I have high hopes for Maginess becoming a genuine inside/outside mid with ability to spread and kick goals. Add in another gun midfielder from this years draft and possibly Merrett as a FA and our midfield changes dramatically
 

Simon Crawshay

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We struggled to score heavily against Richmond and Geelong because the game got largely played on their terms which suffocated our ball movement and made entering forward 50 very challenging - of course, not discounting that we also didn't make the most of those opportunities ourselves.

I'm expecting our scoring to improve over our next few games.
Richmond and Geelong are definetly two of the stronger defensive teams in the league but I feel like we are still somewhat defensive in our structures across the ground.

And our forward entries are an absolute dogs breakfast at the moment.

Have to address both of these issues ASAP to start winning games and provide supporters with an attractive product to watch.
 
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