Autopsy Round 4, 2021: St.Kilda v West Coast

[plugger66]

He had good and bad games though, he often had low numbers and they kept him in.

He had less than 10 once. He had 20 or more 10 times in his first year. Bytel hasn’t had 20 yet. Nothing wrong with that but smith certainly did enough in his first year to hold his spot.

 

[bird_man]

I rate the Dogs, MacCrae is elite, Bont is elite, Bailey Smith is heading elite, Treloar is elite or close to it, Libba has been close to A grade, Hunter, Dunkley. Even Wallis used to be a mid of high caliber too. They bat insanely deep and with top quality top end. With Steph Martin and English feeding them it could be the best ever IMO. They have to win premierships before anyone will put them up there but it's hard to argue that they aren't up with the best ever assembled. West Coast and Brisbane probably had 2 elite each and some top quality along side them but doubt it was a strong except when Judd was there WCE had 3. Cousins, Kerr, Judd. Voss and Black.

First of all, I'm not saying I don't rate Dogs midfield but you either have a short memory or totally underrate those two midfields.

Voss and Black the only two elite? Nigel Lappin was a ******* star of the comp. 4 times All Australian and didn't get near the recognition he should have.

They also had another Brownlow medalist in Jason Akermanis.

Voss > Bont
Black > McCrae
Lappin > Treloar
Aker > Smith

That's the best midfield I've seen on one field by a mile.

Dogs might run deeper than WC, but they aren't Cox, Cousins, Judd, Kerr quality.

Then there's Oftens, Ablett, Bartel, Selwood, Ling

So no, it's not that hard to argue they aren't the best ever.

 

[FQFjt]

I rate the Dogs, MacCrae is elite, Bont is elite, Bailey Smith is heading elite, Treloar is elite or close to it, Libba has been close to A grade, Hunter, Dunkley. Even Wallis used to be a mid of high caliber too. They bat insanely deep and with top quality top end. With Steph Martin and English feeding them it could be the best ever IMO. They have to win premierships before anyone will put them up there but it's hard to argue that they aren't up with the best ever assembled. West Coast and Brisbane probably had 2 elite each and some top quality along side them but doubt it was a strong except when Judd was there WCE had 3. Cousins, Kerr, Judd. Voss and Black.

You are right, it looks as good as any on paper. Let's see if they can consistently produce results in the real world. There are certain unique challenges to having a team stacked with midfield champions — is there enough room for them all to achieve their potential, are there enough role players, is the salary cap overweighting the midfield at the expense of other areas of the ground, etc. etc. These are obviously good problems to have for the most part, but they exist nonetheless. A champion team ≠ a team of champions, and plenty of flag winners do not have the best midfield in the comp.

 

[gringo2011]

First of all, I'm not saying I don't rate Dogs midfield but you either have a short memory or totally underrate those two midfields.

Voss and Black the only two elite? Nigel Lappin was a ******* star of the comp. 4 times All Australian and didn't get near the recognition he should have.

They also had another Brownlow medalist in Jason Akermanis.

Voss > Bont
Black > McCrae
Lappin > Treloar
Aker > Smith

That's the best midfield I've seen on one field by a mile.

Dogs might run deeper than WC, but they aren't Cox, Cousins, Judd, Kerr quality.

Then there's Oftens, Ablett, Bartel, Selwood, Ling

So no, it's not that hard to argue they aren't the best ever.

Except when you say guys like Hunter and Dunkley would be elite at another club if they aren't already. Their possession counts make our guys look like light weights. I think the quality and depth is as good as any side ever. Aker was a wingman not a true mid and played forward in spurts as well. Lappin was a great player but injury held him back a lot of his career, he could have been even better.

Could be 6 elite midfielders at the WBDs and extras that are still top shelf. They have concentrated all their talent on ball, it might not take them to the top of the mountain but they have an obscene amount of talent in the middle of the ground.

 

[gringo2011]

You are right, it looks as good as any on paper. Let's see if they can consistently produce results in the real world. There are certain unique challenges to having a team stacked with midfield champions — is there enough room for them all to achieve their potential, are there enough role players, is the salary cap overweighting the midfield at the expense of other areas of the ground, etc. etc. These are obviously good problems to have for the most part, but they exist nonetheless. A champion team ≠ a team of champions, and plenty of flag winners do not have the best midfield in the comp.

I don't doubt that at all, as a midfield it bats extremely deep and he amounts of quality. MacCrae elite and probably the most underrated player in AFL and Bont is back playing like he did a few years ago. They look early favourites for the flag for mine. The second key back will be their achilles heal, maybe small forward as well.

Also think Hunter will get to Essendon and free up space. Probably similar to us in that they need to replace Martin next year.

 

[bird_man]

Except when you say guys like Hunter and Dunkley would be elite at another club if they aren't already. Their possession counts make our guys look like light weights. I think the quality and depth is as good as any side ever. Aker was a wingman not a true mid and played forward in spurts as well. Lappin was a great player but injury held him back a lot of his career, he could have been even better.

Could be 6 elite midfielders at the WBDs and extras that are still top shelf. They have concentrated all their talent on ball, it might not take them to the top of the mountain but they have an obscene amount of talent in the middle of the ground.

So the likes of Treloar who has never been an AA is elite but Lappin wasn't because he had injuries?

The bloke played 280 games and won 4 all Australians.

Aker played a heap through the middle. Go check out his stats from 2001 when he won the Brownlow. He averaging more clearance than the likes of Treloar does this year. He was just also dominating forwa rd.

Not sure how you can count guys like Smith and Hunter when Aker was much more of a genuine mid at his best.

 

[LiterallyNobody]

I'm just glad I didn't actually say I had faith in the group again after this win, coz any I may have had has been promptly lost once again.


We are in real trouble. One step forwards twenty steps back.

 

[gringo2011]

So the likes of Treloar who has never been an AA is elite but Lappin wasn't because he had injuries?

The bloke played 280 games and won 4 all Australians.

Aker played a heap through the middle. Go check out his stats from 2001 when he won the Brownlow. He averaging more clearance than the likes of Treloar does this year. He was just also dominating forwa rd.

Not sure how you can count guys like Smith and Hunter when Aker was much more of a genuine mid at his best.

I never said Lappin wasn't elite, just said he could have been even better. Treloar finished high in lots of awards, his stats are always right up there too.

Steele is having the best season of any mid we've had for years. This was Treloars last completed season.

Adam Treloar and Jack Steele AFL Stats Comparison

Adam Treloar and Jack Steele AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

 

[bird_man]

I never said Lappin wasn't elite, just said he could have been even better. Treloar finished high in lots of awards, his stats are always right up there too.

Steele is having the best season of any mid we've had for years. This was Treloars last completed season.

Adam Treloar and Jack Steele AFL Stats Comparison

Adam Treloar and Jack Steele AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

West Coast and Brisbane probably had 2 elite each and some top quality along side them but doubt it was a strong except when Judd was there WCE had 3. Cousins, Kerr, Judd. Voss and Black.

You literally said Voss and Black were the only two elite, so either you don't think Lappin and Aker were elite or you just forgot they played.

Treloar has been a good footballer, but he's not.on the same level as those two.