Review Round 4, 2021 - Western Bulldogs vs. Brisbane Lions

Who were your five best players against the Bulldogs?


  • Total voters
    88
  • Poll closed .

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Gibbo_88

Premiership Player
Jan 19, 2009
4,260
2,135
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Sprints: 270-191
Repeat sprints: 31-14
Tackles: 78-49

How's the effort. Would love a mistackle count as well. Considering how Vanilla we were today i'm not sure how they could have been so fatigued that resulted in so many sh*t attempts.
Agree with the tackles but I recall checking the sprint and repeat sprint efforts in most games last year and we were always a fair way behind other teams but we were winning. The other one I recall was we were slower in average speed in attack and faster than every team in defence. The bulldogs game and the Sydney game we have been slower in defence than opposition...
 

royboys4eva

Premiership Player
Nov 27, 2006
3,270
8,013
Melbourne - once Darwin.
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Awful ground - Awful weather - Awful game - Daniher awful - Charlie worse than awful. But it was fun to be standing on the outer like it was back in the old days.

We lost it in the first qtr. The wind was blowing more across the ground but it did favour the end we kicked to and we wasted it. All day going forward we just bombed into the forward 50 where Daniher tried to take mark off the year instead of getting on his bike and leading and demanding our mids to pin point him. Contrast the Doggies who had English LEADING and marking and Naughton dominating in the air.

Doggies killed us in the contest and they just flick out a handball and someone was always supporting or over lapping. We had none of that. We chipped it around looking for holes instead of moving quicker. What happened to the team that use to move it quickly through the corridor?

McCluggage was excellent - Gardiner great first game back. Oscar battled hard all day. Adams did well down back.

Watched Lachie Neale warm up after half time and he looked like an old man. Could barely bend over and looked in a lot of discomfort. I see he got 27 disposals but at the ground he had little impact. He has lost the hard running of last season. If the back isn't improving in the next fortnight then take him out for however long it takes. Don't turn him into a broken down mid for rest of his career. Give Berry extended time in the middle and see what he can do.

Finally Charlie stop sulking and get back to playing the footy we all love.
 
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Boristown

Premiership Player
May 24, 2015
3,183
7,979
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Didn’t see the game yesterday but the way I look at it we’ve played two probable top 4 sides (both away at suburban grounds) and gone 0-2 for a combined loss of 20 points. I don’t think we’re too far off but players individual form is a concern.
Bulldogs had 9 more scoring shots and missed a couple of straight forward ones. In reality, the Lions were never really in it and the scoreboard flattered.
 

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bungalow_bill

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 11, 2010
7,566
7,872
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Our midfield is woefully undermanned and has been for 3 years. Bar Lyons (which was luck) and CEY we have made no effort to bolster it. I've been banging on about it for 2 years, now we are totally exposed.
We did draft Ely Smith as an inside mid he isn't too far off. Aside from that we will hopefully find another A grade mid with our multiple first round picks this year. Throw in Rayner's return and Will Ashcroft and our mid field should look a lot healthier in a year or two
 

Ralphy2017

All Australian
Jul 16, 2017
652
683
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Lack of quality key position players will be their downfall in big games IMO. Although JUH may solve this for them - not sure of the way he plays.
IF he is ready he could go forward and Naughton who played as a back in the U/18's could fill a hole in the backline. I agree they probably need a KPD, don't think there is a lot coming through, perhaps there are a couple of young blokes coming off contract this year or next they might be interested in.
 

beardancer

Rookie
Oct 16, 2009
46
59
melbourne
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
you'd think that a forward line of Eric, Daniher and fullarton, could actually take an overhead pack mark. Truth is Eric is a poor mark and a poorer kick for goal. Daniher is an unreliable mark and kick, Fullarton is still learning.
Basically we've moved our best overhead mark into the ruck. And Big isn't the ruckman that Stef is.
 

martinson

Premiership Player
Apr 4, 2015
3,679
5,753
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Someone got stuck into Bailey earlier. Rewatching the replay he was mostly running around like a headless chook with no clearly defined role that I could make out. They guy clearly has talent and his pace stood out like a beacon from anyone else in our team .

Obviously he's not up to a permanent full time M/F role at present or he'd be played there. I think we need to give him a set position and some dos and don'ts to make his role clear and give him time to build confidence and consistency.

At the moment we're not making the best use of him nor instilling any discipline into his game.
 

Albi_Mangler

All Australian
Oct 22, 2013
684
918
Brisbane
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Two main concerns 1. Getting smashed in the midfield - huge issues in this area right now, arguably saw glimpses of this last year. Someone remind me why we delisted Ben Keays? 2. Not getting enough marks I50 or kicking enough goals. Most likely as a result of concern #1.
 

BRAB

Biggest Victim on this Site
Oct 20, 2014
29,105
49,038
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Two main concerns 1. Getting smashed in the midfield - huge issues in this area right now, arguably saw glimpses of this last year. Someone remind me why we delisted Ben Keays? 2. Not getting enough marks I50 or kicking enough goals. Most likely as a result of concern #1.
Ben Keays was never really tried as an inside mid and couldn’t really break in past J Berry. Meant we had to play him as a forward which he was never really good at.

He has grown heaps at Adelaide. I don’t think he would have gotten those opportunities at Brisbane if we decided to keep him. Best thing for his career was moving.
 

jackess

Hall of Famer
Aug 10, 2005
42,539
38,420
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
you'd think that a forward line of Eric, Daniher and fullarton, could actually take an overhead pack mark. Truth is Eric is a poor mark and a poorer kick for goal. Daniher is an unreliable mark and kick, Fullarton is still learning.
Basically we've moved our best overhead mark into the ruck. And Big isn't the ruckman that Stef is.
Hipwood played a great game yesterday. 11 marks and 2 goals is great for a centre half forward.

Daniher is comfortably the best full forward we’ve had since Brown. We kicked to him extremely poorly but he consistently provides a great contest (not sure he’s been beaten this year). If we had a decent crumber he’d have a field day playing at the feet of Joe

My only criticism was yesterday he seemed to fly for unreasonable marks to draw a free kick when he felt a hand in the back. Would’ve been a free 5 years ago but not longer.

Two main concerns 1. Getting smashed in the midfield - huge issues in this area right now, arguably saw glimpses of this last year. Someone remind me why we delisted Ben Keays? 2. Not getting enough marks I50 or kicking enough goals. Most likely as a result of concern #1.
We delisted him for the exact reason our midfield is struggling.

1. Shocking panicked kicks under pressure
2. Slow to transition from inside to outside, attack to defence
3. Slow
4. Poor kick

He’s improved to be ok in those areas but he wouldn’t help our midfield mix he’d just improve our midfield depth. Which would be handy. Definitely better than CEY

He’d be better than what Dev and Berry are offering us at the moment but we’d be hoping they’d have better upside.
 

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martinson

Premiership Player
Apr 4, 2015
3,679
5,753
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Hipwood played a great game yesterday. 11 marks and 2 goals is great for a centre half forward.

Daniher is comfortably the best full forward we’ve had since Brown. We kicked to him extremely poorly but he consistently provides a great contest (not sure he’s been beaten this year). If we had a decent crumber he’d have a field day playing at the feet of Joe

My only criticism was yesterday he seemed to fly for unreasonable marks to draw a free kick when he felt a hand in the back. Would’ve been a free 5 years ago but not longer.



We delisted him for the exact reason our midfield is struggling.

1. Shocking panicked kicks under pressure
2. Slow to transition from inside to outside, attack to defence
3. Slow
4. Poor kick

He’s improved to be ok in those areas but he wouldn’t help our midfield mix he’d just improve our midfield depth. Which would be handy. Definitely better than CEY

He’d be better than what Dev and Berry are offering us at the moment but we’d be hoping they’d have better upside.
Hipwood and Daniher have been very good all year imo but for whatever reason we're not making use of the dominance they would have over most opponents . Hardly ever see Daniher outmarked and Hipwood's overhead marking is improving every year. Daniher was also imposing when he contested forward line ruck contests yesterday one of them resulting in a goal.

I feel it will all gel at some point but we need a better plan and execution for delivery to them and our crumbers need to get to their feet. Charlie was hopeless yesterday and if he's not carrying something we don't know about I'd consider axeing him for a week or two and getting someone else up there who's prepared to run, tackle ,chase hard and and not give up when they're outpointed in a one on one.
 

Toffee Lion

BigFooty Rising Star
Oct 10, 2011
11,752
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Two main concerns 1. Getting smashed in the midfield - huge issues in this area right now, arguably saw glimpses of this last year. Someone remind me why we delisted Ben Keays? 2. Not getting enough marks I50 or kicking enough goals. Most likely as a result of concern #1.
We didn't get smashed in the midfield. What we didn't do though was apply pressure, tackle or run hard enough.

But we did win our fair share of the ball and did well in the clearances against a strong midfield outfit. As for Ben Keays, great little player but not going to be in a premiership side.
 

Fagenslions36

Team Captain
Jun 14, 2017
486
656
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Charlie has the big fat contract now 750k for a bloke who barley getting a kick . He got his cash at the right time because if he was negotiating now he would be half that . Looks like he has lost a yard or 2 of pace . He should be having a field day crumbing at the feet of Daniher and hipwood can’t work it out . Comes down to work rate . Neale hasn’t fired a shot this year and it’s shows how much he actually dominated last year . That being said I actually think birchyl moved very well yesterday seemed to have a real spring in his step
 

Albi_Mangler

All Australian
Oct 22, 2013
684
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We didn't get smashed in the midfield. What we didn't do though was apply pressure, tackle or run hard enough.

But we did win our fair share of the ball and did well in the clearances against a strong midfield outfit. As for Ben Keays, great little player but not going to be in a premiership side.
Not from what I have noticed these first four games. We have been second best in the midfield every game.

Stats may tell a different story. We look competitive in most of the statistical categories yesterday except I50s, but dogs should have beaten us by 5+ goals.

Keays delisting felt like a mistake at the time, even more so this season.
 

martinson

Premiership Player
Apr 4, 2015
3,679
5,753
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Charlie has the big fat contract now 750k for a bloke who barley getting a kick . He got his cash at the right time because if he was negotiating now he would be half that . Looks like he has lost a yard or 2 of pace . He should be having a field day crumbing at the feet of Daniher and hipwood can’t work it out . Comes down to work rate . Neale hasn’t fired a shot this year and it’s shows how much he actually dominated last year . That being said I actually think birchyl moved very well yesterday seemed to have a real spring in his step
Interesting looking at some of the guys who got fat contracts in the last couple of years from all teams and what their value in the marketplace is now. Always best to have someone hungry who needs to prove themselves. Of course your supporters scream blue murder if you don't pay up when they're out of contract and flying.
 

Section 5

Club Legend
Nov 26, 2018
1,577
2,437
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Fagan has been great for the Lions and supporters love him
But supporters are a fickle bunch especially in Brisbane.

New rules have been introduced over the past few years to open up play
Namely
Slowly reducing interchange numbers from unlimited to the now 75
Deliberate out of bounds and deliberate rushed behind
Reducing the time and number of runners allowed on the field. They took up space while on the field
The 6-6-6
Protected area for player kicking in after a behind is scored, increased twice to the now 15 meters
Standing the mark rule and increased protected area around the mark

Each year the Coaches have been able to adjust their game plan when a new rule came in.
They also recruited or drafted a different type of player that they felt will fit in with these changes
So all was good. The good teams stayed good and the bad usually had a long road to the 8
The thing is we still had a fair bit of congestion in the game in 2020
So much so that they are trialing the new "anti-density rules" in the VFL.

I will use the saying "the straw that broke the camels back"
This year was that straw
Everything has opened up all of a sudden. Not a slight adjustment but a big adjustment. And i believe this has given us a better AFL game.
I don't think the Lions coaches have adjusted their game plan enough and we are not alone
Not only that, i have not noticed any change in rounds 2 to 4 with our game plan
Even after round one when it was obvious you needed to be leading up/into/towards the ball carrier more.
This was a very good option be it in general play or kicking around the mark
To do this you need continuous multiple leads into multiple arears at the right time. This can be energy sapping for players.
This is the area we have failed at in 2021 especially going into our forward 50
We are still standing still near the boundary for the short kick. Wanting the easy ball over the back. Leading sideways to the boundary
Continue to move the ball sideways or back waiting for something to open up. Something will eventually open up and we get a score from this
Then when nothing opens up the old kick down the line hoping for a mark or stoppage or cumber if it's in the forward 50
Teams still need to do all of the above at varying times during the game but we are falling down in this one area

I am not advocating a 100 % full on attacking game as we don't have the players for this
But we certainly can do it in enough spurts over 100 minutes

Charlie Cameron should be having a field day with these new rules.
Instead he should actually be dropped but that is very unlikely to happen
Maybe he is playing as instructed as all players appear to be playing as it's 2019/2020
 

a mayes ing

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 1, 2013
9,121
7,185
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
you'd think that a forward line of Eric, Daniher and fullarton, could actually take an overhead pack mark. Truth is Eric is a poor mark and a poorer kick for goal. Daniher is an unreliable mark and kick, Fullarton is still learning.
Basically we've moved our best overhead mark into the ruck. And Big isn't the ruckman that Stef is.
This is just you upset over the game yesterday rather than looking at their form this season.
Truth is... Eric has been pretty good at marking this season and is actually a fantastic kick for goal this season. Would love to see his goal to point ratio. Danniher is a pretty decent mark but mostly up against 2 defenders or it is ontop of his head. Kick is somewhat like Hippys last season.
Big O was a better ruckman than Martin in the game imo.
 

jackess

Hall of Famer
Aug 10, 2005
42,539
38,420
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I reckon a big reason why our forwards aren't doing well is because we are so slow. We aren't running the ball off half back, when we get it we tend to stop and wait which makes all the players get back into def50. Rather than be 1on1, it is half of 2 teams in there.
Is that any different to the last 2 seasons when we’ve been one of the top scoring teams?
 

Lionheart182

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 29, 2008
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Melbourne
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Bulldogs had 9 more scoring shots and missed a couple of straight forward ones. In reality, the Lions were never really in it and the scoreboard flattered.
Yep and we had more scoring shots against Geelong but lost. Should have been 1-1 in the games I mentioned although to be fair Geelong don’t look like a top 4 side so much currently.
 

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