Review Round 4, 2023 - Brisbane Lions vs. Collingwood

[martinson]

RE the KM and sprint efforts, it had everything to do with our efficiency on turnover. Because of the Pies gameplan, almost every turnover led to an easy scoring op for us. When we turned the ball over in general play, our backline was still generally set up so we could at least create a contest or force them into a low % spot for a shot on goal.

We've got a couple of guys fresh in McKenna and Wilmot who can run and gun and both good with ball in hand . It mightn't seem much but when they're doing it 4 or 5 times a game it puts a lot of pressure back on the opposition. Plus Zorko being fitter means he covers more ground and gets into dangerous positions quicker.

I think we stick McCluggage in the wing ,we know he'll come good sooner or later ,and Bailey who can also play a lot better and we've got several avenues to break open the play.

People were saying Charlie got some easy goals out the back. That's because he's good. When the turnovers came he was shadowed by an opponent and by the time the ball was in the air he was 2 yards clear sprinting towards goal. Very few players have that instinctive burst of acceleration and can still finish off.

 

[martinson]

We're old but young at heart.

And thanks to failing memories, we forget the lessons of a lifetime and act like we are 20 year olds. So you fit right in.

So true . I'm still 25 in my head. Which is the only place I am.

 

[Grasshopper17]

One big caveat is our sprint efforts. Pies 293 lions 244. Maybe we are more efficient? Got a bit lucky? Overrated stat? I like it as a stat as it speaks to whether we actually spread on attack, and genuinely cover our man in defence.

Great post. I think the average speed in defence/attack is far more instructive. Our average speed in defence was a long way below our average speed in attack in Round 1, but the two have been pretty close since.

 

[LongLion]

Don’t frequent this forum as much as I have done for the last 15 years…but have to say; I jumped on here this past week amidst the absurd hatred we copped country-wide, particularly toward joe and Eric. Hearing morons like Matthew loyd and Kane Cornes have their say is to be expected of media flogs…but to hear the same rhetoric and even worse from our own supporters?!

I bet you w@%kers feel a bit silly now!

Well said & agreed with.

 

[royboys4eva]

Collingwood plays an exciting brand of footy. No one can disagree with that. Is it sustainable over a season ? We have an extra round this year with the Gather round - add finals and that's a lot of footy at break neck speed. Going to be a lot of fatigue players come seasons end. They played that way last year as well.

A good example is Melbourne - won a Premiership in 2021. Won their first 9 I think - last year. Then come finals time they were shot. Couldn't run games out anymore. No team runs harder from defence to attack than Melbourne - perhaps Collingwood now. Like I said great to watch but it's so demanding and already Collingwood is getting injuries. Cats were unbelievable last year. At Half time yesterday they looked like a team who had finished 2022 bottom 4. Swans look bang average right now. Our boys look sensational at home and bang average interstate.

Going to be a lot of up's and down's - you need luck and you need a lot of depth to win Premierships.

As they say it's a marathon not a sprint so anyone saying Collingwood is the team to beat is getting ahead of themselves. God help them if Nick Daicos got injured.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

collingwood built an entire system around feeding nick daicos the ball 40 times a game

Eggs in one basket maybe? They have plenty of other outlets , just he is so present around the ground and contest.
Nick kicks those two goals he should of , ah if only the Pies gasp.
We did well to win that game.
Very nice.

 

[KissKiss]

We've got a couple of guys fresh in McKenna and Wilmot who can run and gun and both good with ball in hand . It mightn't seem much but when they're doing it 4 or 5 times a game it puts a lot of pressure back on the opposition. Plus Zorko being fitter means he covers more ground and gets into dangerous positions quicker.

I think we stick McCluggage in the wing ,we know he'll come good sooner or later ,and Bailey who can also play a lot better and we've got several avenues to break open the play.

People were saying Charlie got some easy goals out the back. That's because he's good. When the turnovers came he was shadowed by an opponent and by the time the ball was in the air he was 2 yards clear sprinting towards goal. Very few players have that instinctive burst of acceleration and can still finish off.

Noting McCluggage apparently didnt play much on the wing against the Pies (only attended 2 bounces on the wing). I think we are unsure what to do with him at the moment

 

[Sanchez365]

I felt like Fages stated after the Melbourne game we would persist with Berry in the middle against the good midfields. That to me implied when we come up against weaker mids he will get a rest and go back to the wing with McCluggage taking his spot.

We were notably smaller in the middle of the ground at center clearances. We had Neale / Bailey / McCluggage all in at once which I don't think was a combo we utilized at all against the dogs.

Seems like we are keeping an eye on both the length of the season, protecting our perhaps a bit banged up players and giving more people a experience in the middle.

Expect alot more McClugg then Berry in the middle next week against North.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

I felt like Fages stated after the Melbourne game we would persist with Berry in the middle against the good midfields. That to me implied when we come up against weaker mids he will get a rest and go back to the wing with McCluggage taking his spot.

We were notably smaller in the middle of the ground at center clearances. We had Neale / Bailey / McCluggage all in at once which I don't think was a combo we utilized at all against the dogs.

Seems like we are keeping an eye on both the length of the season, protecting our perhaps a bit banged up players and giving more people a experience in the middle.

Expect alot more McClugg then Berry in the middle next week against North.

Interesting what we do against GWS in Canberra next week then, wouldn’t be surprised if Berry and McCluggage to spilt 50/50 time between the inside midfield and wing positions to allow each other suitable rest for the following rounds.

 

[mpal6]

Interesting what we do against GWS in Canberra next week then, wouldn’t be surprised if Berry and McCluggage to spilt 50/50 time between the inside midfield and wing positions to allow each other suitable rest for the following rounds.

We could start including Deven somewhere. He'll be a good one to roll through the midfield rotations.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

We could start including Deven somewhere. He'll be a good one to roll through the midfield rotations.

Only problem is, who would be the unlucky soul to drop out of our side

If no injuries occur this week (touchwood), the club will most likely stick with the current lineup as it is (with Dev as sub).

We also got to consider who is going to be replaced by Rich against the Kangaroos cause he is ready this week (or next) so there is gonna be quite some stiff boys not playing in our AFL side in the following weeks.

 

[mpal6]

Only problem is, who would be the unlucky soul to drop out of our side

If no injuries occur this week (touchwood), the club will most likely stick with the current lineup as it is (with Dev as sub).

We also got to consider who is going to be replaced by Rich against the Kangaroos cause he is ready this week (or next) so there is gonna be quite some stiff boys not playing in our AFL side in the following weeks.

If we want to include Rich, then it has to be Coleman who comes out. Starcevich plays lockdown and McKenna provides pace/rebound. In terms of role, Coleman does what Rich usually would do - so that's the move we may have to make.

If we do anything weird like dropping Wilmot (wing) or Prior (utility) who all play on other parts of ground to squeeze Rich in, it's going to mess up team balance and lead to the rest of the squad needing to play not their usual roles.

 

[Saucery]

collingwood built an entire system around feeding nick daicos the ball 40 times a game

Imagine when he gets injured.......

 

[Tom14]

If we want to include Rich, then it has to be Coleman who comes out. Starcevich plays lockdown and McKenna provides pace/rebound. In terms of role, Coleman does what Rich usually would do - so that's the move we may have to make.

If we do anything weird like dropping Wilmot (wing) or Prior (utility) who all play on other parts of ground to squeeze Rich in, it's going to mess up team balance and lead to the rest of the squad needing to play not their usual roles.

????

Wilmot seemed to play predominantly D50. Easy enough to push him to a wing, prior out or to sub and Rich in. Kiddy is not getting dropped.

 

[Section 5]

????

Wilmot seemed to play predominantly D50. Easy enough to push him to a wing, prior out or to sub and Rich in. Kiddy is not getting dropped.

Wilmot attended the wing on 21 occasions only Berry with 25 had more.
So, i think you could say he played wing maybe more of a defensive type role.

Prior could make way for Rich but i hope he retains his spot for now.

 

[mpal6]

????

Wilmot seemed to play predominantly D50. Easy enough to push him to a wing, prior out or to sub and Rich in. Kiddy is not getting dropped.

Wilmot has been on the wing more and covered D50 when needed with his running power. Our defensive smalls have been Starcevich, Coleman, McKenna. You can swap Prior for Rich but Prior brings a different set of strengths around ground coverage and gut running.

Rich for Prior won't be like for like and we're just getting Rich in since we deem him to be best 22.

 

[mpal6]

Wilmot attended the wing on 21 occasions only Berry with 25 had more.
So, i think you could say he played wing maybe more of a defensive type role.

Prior could make way for Rich but i hope he retains his spot for now.

Agreed, this is how I see it. Wilmot is a winger who is providing defensive support.

 

[Tom14]

Agreed, this is how I see it. Wilmot is a winger who is providing defensive support.

We always play with 7 players that can roll through defence - so yes, Wilmot and Prior both can be up the ground a bit more and have played a lot of wing, but I think its easy enough to get Rich in to the team.

I genuinely do not understand where this Rich being a whipping boy stuff has come from. I have not seen any evidence that his kicking has lost genuine penetration, and he's more reliable in marking contests than any of our small defenders bar Starce. His deficiency will always be pace and some defensive positioning, but that can be made up for.

Wilmot stays in, Prior unfortunately rotates out.

 

[mpal6]

We always play with 7 players that can roll through defence - so yes, Wilmot and Prior both can be up the ground a bit more and have played a lot of wing, but I think its easy enough to get Rich in to the team.

I genuinely do not understand where this Rich being a whipping boy stuff has come from. I have not seen any evidence that his kicking has lost genuine penetration, and he's more reliable in marking contests than any of our small defenders bar Starce. His deficiency will always be pace and some defensive positioning, but that can be made up for.

Wilmot stays in, Prior unfortunately rotates out.

It's not a whipping boy aspect for Rich but more around two players who have similar strengths/roles and we are forced to pick one for the team. In this case it's Rich and Coleman possibly if you keep all things fair n balanced, as they perform the same role in the backline. I don't like the aspect of us shuffling the rest of the field to squeeze one in, I think it affects too many areas in one go in my opinion.

As we evolve through this season, this type of challenge will continue to crop up. If Lyons keeps racking up 40+ and McCluggage struggles, would we look at McCluggage out Lyons in or just shuffle McCluggage to wing since he falls in the best 22 on a normal day and we want to keep him in. I am taking a similar discussion view to the Rich/Coleman swap rather than just say "Rich is ready so one of the fringe ones need to go out"

 

[M Malice]

I would keep the same side as last week but I am certain they will bring Rich in.... for one of Prior or Joyce IMO.

I also think Dev Robertson will play in the reserves and Prior maybe the sub this week, Dev had minimal game time v the Magpies, don't want that happening 2 weeks in succession.

 

[Quested]

Interesting to note that top disposals this week of 38 shared by Daicos and Anderson of the Suns... Both in losing sides. I'm not trying to take anything away from Daicos, he's very clearly a talent, but the obsession with disposal stats gets a bit old. When some players will link 3 or 4 handballs in close proximity in a single play, it doesn't really reflect a whole game.

 

[briztoon]

Interesting to note that top disposals this week of 38 shared by Daicos and Anderson of the Suns... Both in losing sides. I'm not trying to take anything away from Daicos, he's very clearly a talent, but the obsession with disposal stats gets a bit old. When some players will link 3 or 4 handballs in close proximity in a single play, it doesn't really reflect a whole game.

lol this was very much the “criticism” or question mark on Ashcroft last year, and half of his highlights were of him running the field getting the ball 3 or 4 times in a chain of handballs.

It’s been rather noticeable that this part of his game has been missing this year.

 

[M Malice]

Interesting to note that top disposals this week of 38 shared by Daicos and Anderson of the Suns... Both in losing sides. I'm not trying to take anything away from Daicos, he's very clearly a talent, but the obsession with disposal stats gets a bit old. When some players will link 3 or 4 handballs in close proximity in a single play, it doesn't really reflect a whole game.

With Ashcroft and Dunkley coming in this year individuals disposals are down eg. Neale and McCluggage. I actually think this is a fantastic thing looking forward, much better to have 5-6 mids getting 20-25 disposals each than 1-2 getting 35 and the rest in the teens, makes us a lot tougher assignment to shut down.

 

[Nathan Barley]

With Ashcroft and Dunkley coming in this year individuals disposals are down eg. Neale and McCluggage. I actually think this is a fantastic thing looking forward, much better to have 5-6 mids getting 20-25 disposals each than 1-2 getting 35 and the rest in the teens, makes us a lot tougher assignment to shut down.

We've always been a low possession team but this year we're dead last averaging close to 100 less a game than St Kilda

 

[Tom14]

We've always been a low possession team but this year we're dead last averaging close to 100 less a game than St Kilda

That’s basically just the impact of the port game though. Can’t wipe it off the record but confident it will be an outlier.