Autopsy Round 4 = Collingwood 60-90 GWS

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Buckley is my hero

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Definitely - with MM as Director of Coaching to assist him, I have no doubt Bucks was the right choice.
And no one was questioning the fact when it happened.
The decision to appoint Malthouse a director of coaching was the right decision as his coaching tenure was almost shot, but it was done in the wrong set of circumstances. Malthouse and Buckley represent two different sets of coaching philosophies who were never going to get on as coach and director of coaching. That became obvious during the 2011 season when Malthouse was giving out all sorts of signals to the media attention that it wasn't going to work. It was only Eddie's charisma that brought the two together. Once the plan was enacted anybody who has worked in management could see that the plan would fall apart.
 

Rorzza

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The game plan is the issue for me, CFC telegraph all their attacks by going sideways and then down the line to a contest. Need to use the corridor more, get the ball in the hands of Howe, Moore and Quaynor, they move the ball more aggressively than the rest. When the defense uses the corridor they looked a hell of a lot more threatening.

I'm interested in Maynard's development, I'm becoming a little disappointed to be honest. Average to good small defender and his ball movement is average at best now, isn't aggressive at all, Mayne like..

Edit:
Just looked at Maynard's stats, he's doing alright....I suppose I was hoping his ceiling might be a little higher than what he is currently producing.....Would like to see him rebound and attack the corridor more than down the line.
 
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unplugged

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With a floating VFL fixture where possible we should request that our VFL side plays after the senior team. Currently only for ANZAC day and Queen's birthday that's not achievable. With yesterday's VFL being a practice match we could have scheduled it on any day against the cats.
Unfortunately with the 6 day break and trip to Perth, we would've almost been better served playing the VFL practice match on the Friday instead!
 

Collingwood2022

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I often hear/read of supporters saying that they really hope it works for Buckley as senior coach. Nice! My question is for what reason (i) for the good/well being of the club? (ii) for the good/well being of a past champion player turned coach? Now I'm sure most supporters will gruffly retort for the good of the club of course. Whilst I can't get inside their collective heads, I'd suggest deep down their telling a porkie pie even subconsciously. And this is where the problem lays. Yes sure none of us are involved in the appointment/reappointment decision making, well not directly. So for all those that have turned on Buckley and that's your absolute right, ask yourselves were you indirectly party to what has proven to be a very ordinary appointment/reappointment and arguably a lost decade?
 

doppleganger

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Also teams are slowly working out how to negate his influence in defence, if all you want from Moore is to be a presti stopper then any kpd with athletic traits can do it.
???
Moore isn't a negative stopper, he is someone who can beat KPF one on one, but also a brilliant intercepter and is also a brilliant rebounding player who directly sets up plenty our our actual D50 to inside50 transition.

Take Moore away from our D50 and we lose an AA KPD, and with IQ our best option to actually launch successful attacks.

Kpp Fowards of high calibre are much harder to find and with where the game is heading returning to their original importance and value ( id argue many undersold the role over the last decade).
Who has ever undersold the value of key forwards?

You hope Moore could be a great key forward, but no guarantee he would be any more consistent than Checkers or even Cox if we have poor transition (removing one of our best Coast to Coast launchers) and delivery from mids to forwards.
 

BringouttheGimp

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The way we're travelling.. we're not far from having that Campbell bloke from Brisbane and Underwood commentate our games..

Awful.
 

Collingwood2022

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Regarding the succession plan, blind Freddy could see that Malthouse and Buckley were incapable of working together - 2 bulls in the same paddock. That's on McGuire the deluded emotive ....... I suspect Buckley was doing cart wheels when Malthouse decided not to accept the DC role. So please stop all this bullshit that Malthouse not honoring his DC contract was the reason being Buckley's non successes as a coach. That's beyond a joke.

When McGuire announced the SP in mid 2009 ushering the 2 protagonists together at the table it was pathetic/laughable. It was clear that way or another, 1 of these 2 blokes wasn't going to be at the club post 2011. Unfortuneately it was the wrong one who stayed but that was inevitable wasn't it?
 

doppleganger

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The game plan is the issue for me, CFC telegraphy all their attacks by going sideways and then down the line to a contest. Need to use the corridor more, get the ball in the hands of Howe, Moore and Quaynor, they move the ball more aggressively than the rest. When the defense uses the corridor they looked a hell of a lot more threatening.
Do people not grasp that to actually impose the preferred game plan it requires your best players to win their position?

Our game plan isn't to be smashed in the middle, lose contested possession and have our opposition just control the ball.

When our mids are beaten - Dogs and Giants - we aren't able to actually impose the coaches preferred game plan.

When our mids get on top, Carlton game, unsurprisingly we win the ball, transition well and our forwards have a chance to look dangerous.
 

Jafo

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Oct 12, 2016
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The game plan is the issue for me, CFC telegraphy all their attacks by going sideways and then down the line to a contest. Need to use the corridor more, get the ball in the hands of Howe, Moore and Quaynor, they move the ball more aggressively than the rest. When the defense uses the corridor they looked a hell of a lot more threatening.

I'm interested in Maynard's development, I'm becoming a little disappointed to be honest. Average to good small defender and his ball movement is average at best now, isn't aggressive at all, Mayne like..

Edit:
Just looked at Maynard's stats, he's doing alright....I suppose I was hoping his ceiling might be a little higher than what he is currently producing.....Would like to see him rebound and attack the corridor more than down the line.
Don’t know the stats myself but on pure aesthetics, I reckon Maynard had a better 2019/2020 season/s. I thought he would have an outright breakout season this year but so far just holding his place.

I think even IQ is looking better than Maynard at present.
 

loki04

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If you watch some of the in form rucks in the AFL right now it is their work around the ground that is making them valuable to their team. No one is talking about their tap work.

Cox was non competitive at ground level tonight. Mumford walked the ball out of the center twice without pressure leading to GWS goals.

Grundy needs to get his work rate back and put himself in more dangerous positions.
Yeah but not as "mids", they do it as Ruckmen who go fwd and kick goals or drop back into the hole in defence or provide a link target when exiting defence.
None of which Grundy has ever done with regularity.

Lol Mumford walked right past Grundy half the night too and has a history of doing it.

Cox is able to do the ruck parts well enough to give mids a break even or better result. Cox has issues and ideally we look to recruit some physical bodied understudies for ruck (genuine rucks not small rucks / giant followers).

A 1 million dollar midfielder however will do the ground things much much better then Grundy.


This is not to pot him more the argument that we couldn't live without him is rubbish.
 

loki04

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???
Moore isn't a negative stopper, he is someone who can beat KPF one on one, but also a brilliant intercepter and is also a brilliant rebounding player who directly sets up plenty our our actual D50 to inside50 transition.

Take Moore away from our D50 and we lose an AA KPD, and with IQ our best option to actually launch successful attacks.


Who has ever undersold the value of key forwards?

You hope Moore could be a great key forward, but no guarantee he would be any more consistent than Checkers or even Cox if we have poor transition (removing one of our best Coast to Coast launchers) and delivery from mids to forwards.
Moore vs Brisbane basically became a negative stopper due to having his strengths taken and his impact nullified.

Again vs GWS he was not a dominant intercept and providing drive player like rounds 1 and 2.

Teams are taking him away from the play and also looking to use his man out the back over the top as he plays aggressive.

If it continues then its no use having him waste away back there.

I would put money on Moore being a top line fwd given 12 months in the role.
Ball movement can be a chicken or egg thing too, mids look up and either don't see a good target or don't have confidence in them it creates hesitation.
 

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magpies42

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Buckley has had the opportunity to coach every sort of side you could possibly put out there.. kids.. a rebuild.. experienced.. premiership window.. injury riddled.. an MM Ferrari..

and has failed..

There's no excuses left.

Time to resign.
I agree re-sign him. If the players are playing for him then he stays for me. Change doesn’t guarantee success, I think our issues are player based.
 

BringouttheGimp

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You are a funny man re.

What time at Vue de Monde tonight? I'll join you unless you already have a Tinder date in which case I'll leave you to your own devices.
First one to call me funny.. but anyhow..

Just going for a quick bite to eat and a nice vino there for a half an hr to an hr..

Then meeting up with a Tinder date for a coffee somewhere.

Next time re.. next time.
 

Collingwood2022

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First one to call me funny.. but anyhow..

Just going for a quick bite to eat and a nice vino there for a half an hr to an hr..

Then meeting up with a Tinder date for a coffee somewhere.

Next time re.. next time.
Save your money. I like it.

Next time maybe we could meet to celebrate the official ending of this wasted decade perhaps.
 

BringouttheGimp

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Save your money. I like it.

Next time maybe we could meet to celebrate the official ending of this wasted decade perhaps.
We normally organize a get together with the Nid at the Dew Drop Inn before a game.. if you're interested.. PM the Nid for more info re.
 

doppleganger

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Moore vs Brisbane basically became a negative stopper due to having his strengths taken and his impact nullified.
Yeah it was Moore's quietest game of the season.

But down the other end was H.Andrews who did have the huge game.

Andrews and Moore are best two defenders going atm.
Again vs GWS he was not a dominant intercept and providing drive player like rounds 1 and 2.
???
He had most intercepts on the ground with 11, more than he had against the Dogs in Rd1.

Teams are taking him away from the play and also looking to use his man out the back over the top as he plays aggressive.

If it continues then its no use having him waste away back there.
He played on J.Daniher against the Lions in his quieter game...if teams are not going to play through their primary forward option because Moore is on them, that is a huge win for us.

I would put money on Moore being a top line fwd given 12 months in the role.
Ball movement can be a chicken or egg thing too, mids look up and either don't see a good target or don't have confidence in them it creates hesitation.
He is currently the leading intercept player in the league, the reigning AA CHB, and was 3rd in coaches association voting at end of r3.

Sure we could throw him forward and he would probably go OK...but he is an elite defender.

We are giving up heaps to move the best intercept player in the game away from the role.
 

loki04

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Yeah it was Moore's quietest game of the season.

But down the other end was H.Andrews who did have the huge game.

Andrews and Moore are best two defenders going atm.

???
He had most intercepts on the ground with 11, more than he had against the Dogs in Rd1.


He played on J.Daniher against the Lions in his quieter game...if teams are not going to play through their primary forward option because Moore is on them, that is a huge win for us.


He is currently the leading intercept player in the league, the reigning AA CHB, and was 3rd in coaches association voting at end of r3.

Sure we could throw him forward and he would probably go OK...but he is an elite defender.

We are giving up heaps to move the best intercept player in the game away from the role.
I dont believe his game vs gws was anywhere near as impactful or good as Dogs.

He will have more outstanding games back there no doubt but clubs are looking to both reduce his imapct and or better ways in targeting his opponent.

Imo if he becomes an elite fwd it will move us fwd further then defence as I believe you can train other to perform the role adequately.

End of the day I think we maybe in the wilderness for a few years before coming back up so might only be an aesthetic issue whilst watch the game. Gun fwd at least can provide highlights when down the arse end of the ladder.
 

doppleganger

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I dont believe his game vs gws was anywhere near as impactful or good as Dogs.
Agree, he was easily our best against the Dogs.

But in terms of intercept possessions, he actually had more against GWS.

He will have more outstanding games back there no doubt but clubs are looking to both reduce his imapct and or better ways in targeting his opponent.
You say that as if it is a bad thing?

He is like our version of McGovern/Rance. The key defenders who are that good that they not only play on and normally beat their direct opponent, but can back in their own judgement to just dominate entire games, that is an extremely rare skill.

Imo if he becomes an elite fwd it will move us fwd further then defence as I believe you can train other to perform the role adequately.
You can train blanket negating stoppers, but training players to be that good at reading the play that they change forward set ups...don't see that happen too often.

There are premiership teams who have gotten by with 'adequate' KPFs, but almost all have elite defensive groups.

End of the day I think we maybe in the wilderness for a few years before coming back up so might only be an aesthetic issue whilst watch the game. Gun fwd at least can provide highlights when down the arse end of the ladder.
Moore can provide us with plenty of highlights down back.

And if we are going to be battling, why not put Moore where the pill will be, so he can stand-out like he did in the Dogs game.
 

Good_Old

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Feels like Brad Green era Melbourne. Stagnation from the top, no clear direction, players disengaging. Just treading water.
 

Civilest

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I don’t blame Ed for wanting his cake and eat it. He didn’t want to lose bucks to north because he saw bucks as royalty. Hence the succession plan, but in hindsight it was a flawed plan. Again, nothing ventured nothing gained Ed. I can’t help thinking it would have been better for Bucks and for Collingwood if he had gone to north. We may have won in 2011. Anyway, all just speculation.
 

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