Review Round 5, 2017 - Western Bulldogs vs. Brisbane Lions

[Davemonkey]

In light of the ruthless slaying that Lewy has copped because he had the gall to beat Bont in the Rising Star award, my favourite part of yesterdays game was when he broke Bont's tackle after using his pace to win the ball, and slotting a goal.

Mine too. I was going to post to the effect at the time but I was so giddy I couldn't make the words form.

 

[bewsta]

As much as it irks many of us, the umpires seem to work on the premise that a few teams like the Dogs are just so skilled that they get away these amazing handballs yet other teams don't. This assumption gets built up over time and reinforced by the media.

In actual fact the Bulldogs are just the latest team to benefit from this mythical elevation of their skills in the eyes of the umpires. This isn't an attack on the Dogs or any other top team. I suspect we benefitted from it in our golden days too. It is a real problem for AFL where so many of the rules are open to subjective interpretation, perhaps more so than any other football code. Virtually every aspect of the game is at the whim of an umpire's interpretation.

Top teams in general get the benefit of the doubt, have negative aspects of rules applied more leniently and get away with more borderline rule breaking than bottom teams. I think the last decade of football provides plenty of evidence that this is the case. So many line ball decisions tend to go the way of the better team, far more than the statistical likelihood.

The unfortunate part is it can only ever be a discussion based on case by case examples rather than hard data because so much of it comes down to subtle interpretation around the grey areas in the rule book. How long is long enough for holding the ball? How much interference by a defender is too much? When does prior opportunity begin and end? What is incorrect disposal and what is a ball knocked out in a tackle? The words are clear in the rule book, but the actual interpretation is a sea of grey.

This isn't even conscious bias by umpires. I doubt there is a consciously biased umpire in the AFL. However they do it because they are human and the natural inclination is to assume greater benefit to a better team. The better team is assumed to be better in regard to the rules. It is very subtle and very hard to fight. Robot umpires would help!

And don't get me started on umpires giving Brownlow votes! In terms of impartiality, a really really bad idea! Talk about self-fulfilling prophecies. A first year sociology student could spot that as a flawed idea. Again, it is subtle but like it or not, an umpire has a clear conflict between impartial adjudicating and choosing best and fairest - but y'know...tradition.

Let's hope it works the other way too — "What do you mean it came off Bob Murphy's boot wrong? Sir Bob doesn't make mistakes. Deliberate"

 

[ManOfClay]

Honestly thought you guys went away from the plan that beat us in pre-season. On that day you really held possession at all costs and worked through slowly.

I've only seen you play two games - does that not appear to be your plan?

If you look through my comments on the lions I was a big wrap for that. And your yellow Guernsey. The watermarks look crap though tbh.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

That's part of the reason why I find people who are constantly negative about Lester so wrong. He using the ball well 9 times out of 10. He consistently forms part of the scoring chains when playing up the ground.

My problem with Lester is that it takes five games for him to get 10 disposals.

OK, he probably gets 10 disposals in three games!!!!

 

[Nunez]

My problem with Lester is that it takes five games for him to get 10 disposals.

OK, he probably gets 10 disposals in three games!!!!

Averaging 14 disposals a game @ 80% DE.

 

[Len S]

My problem with Lester is that it takes five games for him to get 10 disposals.

OK, he probably gets 10 disposals in three games!!!!

His complete inability to accelerate, even run hurts us enormously, can't be hidden in a pocket,hoping to get a couple of cheap shots over the top.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

Averaging 14 disposals a game @ 80% DE.

14 disposals a game is simply not enough for a senior player. I think he is poorly coached, or has no footy smarts, as I have never seen him get 'the easy ball', out wide. the Craig Bradley cheap ball.

The bloke tries his guts out. Anyone who goes to the matches sees this but he has no weapons, nothing to hang his coat on. He isn't a great kick, or an elite runner, huge body etc.

What about him running with one of the Port elite mid fielders? It won't happen but I would like to see him tried ina role that he might become an useful player.

 

[TheZork]

Don't know where this should go, but that 5 goals in the last 5 minutes by the bulldogs cost me almost 10k from a $1 multi, unbelievable. Got every single winning margin correct this round except for ours. I had the bulldogs winning by 1-24 points. Chris Fagan will be getting a phone call tomorrow.

Sorry just needed to get it off my chest

 

[Nunez]

14 disposals a game is simply not enough for a senior player. I think he is poorly coached, or has no footy smarts, as I have never seen him get 'the easy ball', out wide. the Craig Bradley cheap ball.

The bloke tries his guts out. Anyone who goes to the matches sees this but he has no weapons, nothing to hang his coat on. He isn't a great kick, or an elite runner, huge body etc.

What about him running with one of the Port elite mid fielders? It won't happen but I would like to see him tried ina role that he might become an useful player.

He is a utility man, he isn't going to get 25+ a game. Even in 2013/2014 when he was practically a mid, he only averaged like 18 a game.

His role this year has involved him playing full forward, as a link up man off the back/forward flanks or a forward tagger, negating defenders (which he has done well when tasked with the role). A genuine utility role. Also worth noting he is averaging a career high 5 score involvements a game (that's 1 in 3 disposals leading to shots at goal, worth noting).

In the end of the day, Lester will never be A grade player. He won't even be a B grade player. What he will be is a player who will work his ass off, set standards off the field and fill any holes that pop up.

I don't know what you are expecting him to do tbh.

 

[wantok]

14 disposals a game is simply not enough for a senior player. I think he is poorly coached, or has no footy smarts, as I have never seen him get 'the easy ball', out wide. the Craig Bradley cheap ball.

The bloke tries his guts out. Anyone who goes to the matches sees this but he has no weapons, nothing to hang his coat on. He isn't a great kick, or an elite runner, huge body etc.

What about him running with one of the Port elite mid fielders? It won't happen but I would like to see him tried ina role that he might become an useful player.

Would have to be the slowest player getting regular AFL games . Maybe could run down a few rucks. The thought of him trailing Gray or Wines scares me.

 

[Dylan12]

In Michael Gleeson's writeup he essentially reinforces Clarkson's point about the umpiring:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/alasta...arey-over-rioli-comments-20170423-gvqty3.html



Grown adults should have the self-control not to whinge about the umpiring when they're in front of the media representing their club. But as you say, because it's Clarkson it doesn't get called out for the childish behaviour that it is. And Clarkson has form for this, of course.

I'm all for coaches call out s**t umpiring; the game has come too far for them not to be publically held to account. Just wish someone at the Lions would follow suit.

 

[carnthemlions]

He is a utility man, he isn't going to get 25+ a game. Even in 2013/2014 when he was practically a mid, he only averaged like 18 a game.

His role this year has involved him playing full forward, as a link up man off the back/forward flanks or a forward tagger, negating defenders (which he has done well when tasked with the role). A genuine utility role. Also worth noting he is averaging a career high 5 score involvements a game (that's 1 in 3 disposals leading to shots at goal, worth noting).

In the end of the day, Lester will never be A grade player. He won't even be a B grade player. What he will be is a player who will work his ass off, set standards off the field and fill any holes that pop up.

I don't know what you are expecting him to do tbh.

He plays his role and is generally pretty composed out there, which is a lot more than we can say for most of our players in his age group.

 

[Cockliff38]

Don't know where this should go, but that 5 goals in the last 5 minutes by the bulldogs cost me almost 10k from a $1 multi, unbelievable. Got every single winning margin correct this round except for ours. I had the bulldogs winning by 1-24 points. Chris Fagan will be getting a phone call tomorrow.

Sorry just needed to get it off my chest

Hate to be a complete dick but the 50.5 line would've been a good call!

 

[luthor]

Don't know where this should go, but that 5 goals in the last 5 minutes by the bulldogs cost me almost 10k from a $1 multi, unbelievable. Got every single winning margin correct this round except for ours. I had the bulldogs winning by 1-24 points. Chris Fagan will be getting a phone call tomorrow.

Sorry just needed to get it off my chest

OMG.

That's cruel

 

[Nunez]

Decided to watch the first half again, man that second quarter was quality!

I can't help but think we're not far off absolutely smashing someone out of the blue. The moment we can string 4 qtrs together the opposition is ****ed.

 

[M Malice]

Only got back from Melbourne late Tuesday night and haven't read through the thread so will probably be going over already covered ground.

1) Rockliff, Zorko, D.Beams, Robinson were absolutely fantastic although it was very noticeable at the ground that they just ran out of legs in the end as the whole team did, too much of the midfield load for them to carry particularly the big 3.
2) McStay was really good, a breakout game for mine, we could have an elite KPD on our hands if he brings this level of game to the table on a consistent basis.
3) Lewy Taylor runs his backside off and there has been a distinct improvement from last year, has cemented a spot in the firsts IMO.
4) I would be keeping our young talent in the side eg. Cox, McCluggage, Berry unless they show signs of the physicality and pace of the game getting on top of them. Would much rather get games into them than the likes of Bell and Bewick, they can be injury cover.
5) Bastinac and Lester need an extended spell in the NEAFL, get another couple of youngsters in there ie. Matheison and maybe give Jansen one last go to create an AFL career for himself, can't do any worse than Lester IMO.
6) I would like to see Josh Walker come in as the number 1 key defender and let Andrews drop back to be the number 2 or 3 defender so he can best utilize his strength ie. intercept marking.
7) My favourite moments were McCluggage's great tackle on Johaniisen and Cox's run down tackle on ??. Both showed some great composed moments as well with ball in hand. Berry was quiet but showed great intensity and also ran himself to a standstill.
8) Daniel Rich was really good again and showed some great courage and effort to get back into the hole consistently.
9) All in all it was a great performance from the guys and it was purely fitness that let us down in the end certainly not desire or leadership IMO. I didn't realize at the game that we were still in front with only 5 minutes 30 seconds left on the clock. Great signs for the future of our club.

 

[jackess]

I think people are going to get a shock when they see how well Lester polls in the B & F. A lot of posters seem to think he's not best 22 but it wouldn't surprise me to see him sneak into the top 10 in our B&F just for playing his role each week.

 

[M Malice]

I think people are going to get a shock when they see how well Lester polls in the B & F. A lot of posters seem to think he's not best 22 but it wouldn't surprise me to see him sneak into the top 10 in our B&F just for playing his role each week.

Agree that he will poll well, the coaches and players certainly like him with him being in the leadership group and he probably brings a lot off the field which we don't see.

Although IMO his extreme lack of pace (he has no capability to lift his pace even a little when needed and has the turning circle of the Queen Mary) is so noticeable and opposition teams continually run past and off him.

 

[jackess]

Agree that he will poll well, the coaches and players certainly like him with him being in the leadership group and he probably brings a lot off the field which we don't see.

Although IMO his extreme lack of pace (he has no capability to lift his pace even a little when needed and has the turning circle of the Queen Mary) is so noticeable and opposition teams continually run past and off him.

His acceleration is very poor but he can run fast. His ball use is probably in the top half a dozen at the club.

If he plays his role to a level the coaches want most weeks, especially given that role can change quarter to quarter then he won't be near to getting dropped as a large amount of posters call for most weeks.

 

[Dalions]

His acceleration is very poor but he can run fast. His ball use is probably in the top half a dozen at the club.

If he plays his role to a level the coaches want most weeks, especially given that role can change quarter to quarter then he won't be near to getting dropped as a large amount of posters call for most weeks.

He is definitely one of the more composed players out there on a weekly basis.
I am not a massive fan, but i have grown to see the positives in his game. And to see his value.