Review Round 5, 2019 - Brisbane Lions vs. Collingwood

Who were your five best players against Collingwood?


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lioninthesand

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We could be heading toward unprecedented 'selection melt down' territory, calls for Fagans head are imminent lol. I'd be happy to cover injuries which force a couple of changes and maybe 1 other change to add speed. As for Lyons (who is our second best tackler, a stat that should be treasured ATM, mind you) and a couple of others, they are now OFFICIALLY on watch (I saw Lyons declining after round 2 and put him on watch)..HOWEVER, these guys should now know, their output has not been good enough. Theres no point dropping 5-6 players at once. We all want heads to roll, but if what I saw from Ely in the JLT game is anything to go by, he is not ready for AFL footy (physically or mentally), his name hasn't been mentioned after most NEAFL games either, I strongly doubt rushing him in is going to help him or the team. At the end of the day, all of our issues are coming from a complete and utter fall away in our defensive pressure, which (bar Zorko) is a team wide issue. Our tackle numbers from the last 2 weeks are a disgrace. Fix that, create turnovers and start running in waves again, scoring will come. We went too far with this 'attractive style, we are the best scoring team in the comp'.. thing and it has caused a total lack of respect for defense which is a horrible by product of a few good weeks. Dropping half the team wont fix that.
 

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lioninthesand

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It’s more to do with the fact that he can’t run out of sight on a dark night and he doesn’t look remotely fit . Coming back 4kgs overweight when you have severe limitations already on your running capacity. This is a bloke who is literally one of the worst runners for his draft year endurance wise and he doesn’t appear to be working on them . Hence he literally can’t find the football and is completely gassed after 1 effort . Look at how young rozee or Walsh are going if we could pick again between those 3 it’s not even close as to who you would pick .
It was said Rayner would have been a pick 10-15 in last years draft, so yes.. you're right, we probley would have taken either of those Guys before him. If we look at his draft, which is more constructive, theres still no one with his X-factor that I would rather have. LDU? Dow? Brayshaw is going to be good.. even Stephenson.. Rayner will be a better player than him in 5 years IMO. And, Rayner would look better in the Pies forward line too, we need to remember how tough it is for young Guys un a struggling side.

I agree with him coming back overweight being disappointing. Working hard over the break wasn't his prioroty judging from his social media, music festivals, pubs, sausages in bread and cheese platters were. I also didn't love the way it was a big old joke within the playing group, as if he was allowed to.. hopefully - this year that will be a wake up call and he comes back having done a heap of extras and in better shape. If our devalopment team and coaching staff are any good, it will never happen again.

We don't need to start freaking out though, he has and will continue to show plenty. He is going to be a gun.
 

Bucking Beads

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I don't even want to talk about this game. I can't say I expected a win but **** we were never in it which is the most disappointing thing. Still a lot of work to do on our list to improve it. Lets reset and go hard against the Suns.
 

jason pm

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Cameron Rayner obviously needs to work on his endurance although from my untrained eye I don't think he'll ever be a 75-80%+ midfield time player. Some people are just at a genetic/biological disadvantage when it comes to VO2 Max possibilities, if he works hard the best we will ever to be able to hope for is a 50/50 type split mid/fwd. Similar to guys like Stringer and Petracca...........only better:cool::D.

I envision him if he fulfills his potential being a 30-40 goal a season player who is a game breaker when thrown into center bounces, wins the contested ball and explodes from the square then floats forward and has short stints in the midfield during general play.
 

a mayes ing

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It was said Rayner would have been a pick 10-15 in last years draft, so yes.. you're right, we probley would have taken either of those Guys before him. If we look at his draft, which is more constructive, theres still no one with his X-factor that I would rather have. LDU? Dow? Brayshaw is going to be good.. even Stephenson.. Rayner will be a better player than him in 5 years IMO. And, Rayner would look better in the Pies forward line too, we need to remember how tough it is for young Guys un a struggling side.

I agree with him coming back overweight being disappointing. Working hard over the break wasn't his prioroty judging from his social media, music festivals, pubs, sausages in bread and cheese platters were. I also didn't love the way it was a big old joke within the playing group, as if he was allowed to.. hopefully - this year that will be a wake up call and he comes back having done a heap of extras and in better shape. If our devalopment team and coaching staff are any good, it will never happen again.

We don't need to start freaking out though, he has and will continue to show plenty. He is going to be a gun.
Said where?
 

jason pm

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It was said Rayner would have been a pick 10-15 in last years draft, so yes.. you're right, we probley would have taken either of those Guys before him. If we look at his draft, which is more constructive, theres still no one with his X-factor that I would rather have. LDU? Dow? Brayshaw is going to be good.. even Stephenson.. Rayner will be a better player than him in 5 years IMO. And, Rayner would look better in the Pies forward line too, we need to remember how tough it is for young Guys un a struggling side.

I agree with him coming back overweight being disappointing. Working hard over the break wasn't his prioroty judging from his social media, music festivals, pubs, sausages in bread and cheese platters were. I also didn't love the way it was a big old joke within the playing group, as if he was allowed to.. hopefully - this year that will be a wake up call and he comes back having done a heap of extras and in better shape. If our devalopment team and coaching staff are any good, it will never happen again.

We don't need to start freaking out though, he has and will continue to show plenty. He is going to be a gun.
I could be wrong but IIRC I don't think he was rated that low, from memory he was top 5 in the combined draft rankings that I saw.
 

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jason pm

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Can someone also post the “4kg overweight” story as well? Lots of things being said here which I haven’t heard before.
Yep, I've never seen it, also some of the stories circulating about Cam pre his drafting were scurrilous....you would of thought he was going to be Fevola like as a recruit for us if you believed them.
 

Sausages

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It was said Rayner would have been a pick 10-15 in last years draft, so yes.. you're right, we probley would have taken either of those Guys before him. If we look at his draft, which is more constructive, theres still no one with his X-factor that I would rather have. LDU? Dow? Brayshaw is going to be good.. even Stephenson.. Rayner will be a better player than him in 5 years IMO. And, Rayner would look better in the Pies forward line too, we need to remember how tough it is for young Guys un a struggling side.

I agree with him coming back overweight being disappointing. Working hard over the break wasn't his prioroty judging from his social media, music festivals, pubs, sausages in bread and cheese platters were. I also didn't love the way it was a big old joke within the playing group, as if he was allowed to.. hopefully - this year that will be a wake up call and he comes back having done a heap of extras and in better shape. If our devalopment team and coaching staff are any good, it will never happen again.

We don't need to start freaking out though, he has and will continue to show plenty. He is going to be a gun.
would love to read that article if you or lioninthesand can post it?
He is on 500 k from next year better hope he comes back in good nick .
I could be wrong but IIRC I don't think he was rated that low, from memory he was top 5 in the combined draft rankings that I saw.

Tagged you all - this podcast, with Caruso (GWS) and Twomey has Rayner discussed at 10:20.

PODCAST halfway down page.

Both put Rayner at Top 3 in 2018 draft and both agree Rayner could be something special and that there wasn't anyone like him in 2017 or 2018 draft.
 

jason pm

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Tagged you all - this podcast, with Caruso (GWS) and Twomey has Rayner discussed at 10:20.

PODCAST halfway down page.

Both put Rayner at Top 3 in 2018 draft and both agree Rayner could be something special and that there wasn't anyone like him in 2017 or 2018 draft.
Ah thanks Sos, my memory isn't that bad.............YET!
 

Sausages

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Just on the whole Rayner came back overweight/needs to do more running sessions/Whitfield got into shape and is killing it etc.....

Rayner is 19. A second year player in a team that finished 17th. He plays predominantly HF/FF with some midfield time (as he did as a junior).

Whitfield is 23/24, in a team that has been widely tipped to be flag bound in the last 2 years.

I think expecting Cam to be:

(a) not enjoying his off-season
(b) more than what he is in a team going 5-17
(c) aware as a player 4 years his senior of off-season pitfalls

is totally missing the point and it's unfair criticism of a young man, with an uncommon combination of physical attributes and who has shown signs of being something special.

From this point, it's up to him and the club to nurture his talent and make best use of it. He has made mistakes, MINOR mistakes in the scheme of things, and jumping on him isn't terribly productive. It's not like he's on social media at 2AM on the beers/nosebeers/partying with strippers during the season.
 
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That’s all well and good but he should also be dropped when he isn’t performing and I’d say getting 5 touches a game with no forward pressure isn’t contributing . When you set standards you need to set them for the whole playing group not have standards for Rayner because he is a number 1 draft pick and has talent compared to someone else . Best thing for Rayner would be to get a spell for a few weeks so he can see expectations of what is required . Might be the only way the penny will drop for him. Picking him week in week out when he isn’t performing makes inconsistent selections and can cause angst amongst the playing group .
 

lioninthesand

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would love to read that article if you or lioninthesand can post it?
Yeah I think it was Cal, in a paragraph talking about the strength of last years draft. Didnt go into great detail from memory, just said 'such is the strength of this years draft, some recruiters have the current 1st pick Cam Rayner placed in the 10-15 range if he were listed in the 2018 draft.." or something like that.. Haven't found it again since, but 100% sure I read it. Doesent mean he said something else at another time.

To be clear though, I am wrapped with Rayner, he is going to be a powerhouse. He is young, he is learning. I don't want any side conversations to muddy that fact. I'd have him over anyone from the last 2 drafts, the only exception perhaps being Walsh.
 

a mayes ing

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Some silly stuff being said about Rayner in here in my opinion. Overweight, lazy, bad eating habits, doesn’t care, shouldn’t be living with Witherden, wouldn’t be top 10 year after his draft, seriously, ridiculous.
The part about who he is living with is ridiculous and how he should spend his off season. But it does seem that he has come back not in ideal shape and people ahve a right to be a bit pissed off if that is the case.
 

lioninthesand

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Some silly stuff being said about Rayner in here in my opinion. Overweight, lazy, bad eating habits, doesn’t care, shouldn’t be living with Witherden, wouldn’t be top 10 year after his draft, seriously, ridiculous.
To be clear, no one said they thought that about the draft, I was referencing something I recall reading.
 

jackess

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That’s all well and good but he should also be dropped when he isn’t performing and I’d say getting 5 touches a game with no forward pressure isn’t contributing . When you set standards you need to set them for the whole playing group not have standards for Rayner because he is a number 1 draft pick and has talent compared to someone else . Best thing for Rayner would be to get a spell for a few weeks so he can see expectations of what is required . Might be the only way the penny will drop for him. Picking him week in week out when he isn’t performing makes inconsistent selections and can cause angst amongst the playing group .

Are you willing to concede that maybe the coaches might have a different view of the game?
 
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They would need to be in the same draft to have the pick of them.
Obviously but if you had to pick between those 3 it’s clear cut . They have shown more in 4 games. Rozee is a star 5 goals and 20 touches against us and look at goal against eagles the other night . Walsh is just a gun . If Rayner was living in Melbourne he wills he getting absolutely roasted out of mind out of sight tbh and he is lucky for it .
 
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Are you willing to concede that maybe the coaches might have a different view of the game?
Coaches are clearly persisting with him because of potential and clearly playing half forward is not easy when team is being smashed in middle . But anyone who can watch the game can see he isn’t fit , can’t do repeated efforts and has lost the power and spring from last year . That suggests he is carrying too much weight .
 
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