Review Round 5, 2019 - Brisbane Lions vs. Collingwood

Who were your five best players against Collingwood?


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jackess

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Coaches are clearly persisting with him because of potential and clearly playing half forward is not easy when team is being smashed in middle . But anyone who can watch the game can see he isn’t fit , can’t do repeated efforts and has lost the power and spring from last year . That suggests he is carrying too much weight .
So the coaches at the 'selection table' deliberately pick an unfit player based on potential at the expense of the teams performance? Tanking?
 

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Tom14

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It was said Rayner would have been a pick 10-15 in last years draft, so yes.. you're right, we probley would have taken either of those Guys before him. If we look at his draft, which is more constructive, theres still no one with his X-factor that I would rather have. LDU? Dow? Brayshaw is going to be good.. even Stephenson.. Rayner will be a better player than him in 5 years IMO. And, Rayner would look better in the Pies forward line too, we need to remember how tough it is for young Guys un a struggling side.

I agree with him coming back overweight being disappointing. Working hard over the break wasn't his prioroty judging from his social media, music festivals, pubs, sausages in bread and cheese platters were. I also didn't love the way it was a big old joke within the playing group, as if he was allowed to.. hopefully - this year that will be a wake up call and he comes back having done a heap of extras and in better shape. If our devalopment team and coaching staff are any good, it will never happen again.

We don't need to start freaking out though, he has and will continue to show plenty. He is going to be a gun.
Not that Cal Twomey is the be all and end all but pretty sure he said he would have had Cam in the same group as Walsh, rankine, etc.
 

jason pm

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Last 3 Drafts top 5-

2018- Sam Walsh, Jack Lukosius, Izak Rankine, Max King, Connor Rozee.
2017- Cameron Rayner, Andrew Brayshaw, Paddy Dow, Luke Davies-Uniacke, Adam Cerra.
2016- Andrew McGrath, Tim Taranto, Hugh McCluggage, Ben Ainsworth, Will Setterfield.

Even if I could do over now I'd still take Cam at number 1 in 2017.

Id also take him in front of McGrath, Ainsworth Setterfield, Rozee and King in a combined draft, so number 6 for me behind (in order)- McCluggage, Walsh, Rankine, Lukosius, Taranto.
 

Kernel Kurtz

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Some silly stuff being said about Rayner in here in my opinion. Overweight, lazy, bad eating habits, doesn’t care, shouldn’t be living with Witherden, wouldn’t be top 10 year after his draft, seriously, ridiculous.
Proof is in the pudding as they say and you can't tell me he wouldn't benefit from losing a few kilos.
If he came back from Xmass 4 kilos heavier is totally irrelevant for mind if he is still overweight , its his current program not the break.
He appeared to be hampered with the cork , so should of been rested.
Is it mismanagement, bit early to call that one maybe but we will be asking that if he is sluggish throughout the year.
On another note.
No spread from the back six or wingers or even small or midfielders, almost the whole team.
We spread only after they had done , defensively or in attack ,all too late. We did this well on other occasions so not sure why it has stopped.
When we switched it was obvious, too slow to run into space and the likes of our backs are not capable of pinpointing a pass to advantage when the opposition is on our backside, need to get a bit of distance . Maybe Basti was one that was doing this ? Lewy also is one player that will run into space.
Back on Rayner.
The other alternative is change his body shape to lose around 4 kilos .
He'd still be a beast , but more mobile.
No reason why he could not do this throughout the season, or am I missing something.
 
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I am no longer local to Brisbane but I went to both the west coast and Collingwood games. Like others I was absolutely gutted because I thought that Collingwood had been down and after our start to the season the Essendon game was a reality check and we would get back on with it. I was one of the few who thought we could win... obviously went home terribly disappointed and hungover. I remember being at the Friday game against the pies in 2013 where the team was basically a neafl side and we got smashed. Haven’t had a big game since. So this obviously hurt.

Anyway few things to say. I think a lot of people have made fair points about some of our players Lyons,Mcstay, Witherden Rayner etc.

But I think we are forgetting that as fans we jump the gun very quickly and a lot can be forgotten in a weeks footy. West coast were pumped... north were disgraceful... Melbourne well that was plain ugly.. lots have clubs have problems

Dan mcstay is a fairly strong contested player who in my opinion shows enough. He will take some time but he isn’t a midfielder. Don’t judge him on stats.

Cam Rayner. Well I love the kid. I think he is a winner. I think he has embraced our club and he is going to be here for a long time. Watch him against the blues last year with that fend. People talk about the dusty comparisons and for me they are there. I have nothing but faith in him. I would take him over Brayshaw/Walsh/LDU/DOW you name it because he is a match winner not a stat collector. I can’t wait till he hits 22/23 years old..

I have been a bit more disappointed in Witho. I thinks fages and Hodgey need to put an arm around him and he might need some tough love. He can kick a footy that’s for sure but I haven’t seen much else this year and his attitude has me a little concerned. I’m still backing him in tho.

If the lions win on Saturday and win well we would all take a 4-2 start to the year.

ADL:1-3
North:1-4
Melb:1-4
Sydney:1-4

Let’s get our mind back on the job. Haven’t lost faith.
 

Jirik13

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As a Suns supporter who watches Lions every game I take Ainsworth over Rayner every time. Why? Just look at their bodies. Ainsworth was unlucky with injuries but worked extremely hard from day 1 including his tank. This allows him to play significant minutes in midfield this year.

Rayner is unbelievable talent but is he willing to work hard is the main question. Rayner body shape and inability to run to AFL standard has me worried. Next preseason will be telling. In my opinion Rayner and Witherden need kick in the butt from Fagan. Is Fagan actually too nice to players? I was not impressed by his presser.
 
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As a Suns supporter who watches Lions every game I take Ainsworth over Rayner every time. Why? Just look at their bodies. Ainsworth was unlucky with injuries but worked extremely hard from day 1 including his tank. This allows him to play significant minutes in midfield this year.

Rayner is unbelievable talent but is he willing to work hard is the main question. Rayner body shape and inability to run to AFL standard has me worried. Next preseason will be telling. In my opinion Rayner and Witherden need kick in the butt from Fagan. Is Fagan actually too nice to players? I was not impressed by his presser.
I agree with what you said about a kick in the butt... and your not wrong in you comments..

But as a lions fan Rayner> Ainsworth.

This is his second year. The tide will turn in his conditioning. Very confident he will get fitter. Competition needs to watch out because he is going to get more powerful and explosive too. Hopefully that can translate into time on the ball from stoppages.
 

Stewart66

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Credit to Collingwood, way way too good tonight, they are premiership contenders and we a still a while off that class.

1- They were better organized and too slick around the stoppages and the center bounces.
2- They spread at pace in attack and defense as a team unit, they covered everything we were trying to do.
3- Our defenders did the best they could considering how often, quick and easily it was coming in.
4- Hugh McCluggage, Eric Hipwood, Daniel Rich, Jarrod Berry and Nick Robertson our best IMO.
5- I would have taken 3-2 at the start of the season in a heartbeat considering the tough draw.
6- A lot of the boys looked like they had heavy legs tonight, 3 days off now to freshen up and back into it on Monday for the Pineapple Stoush, win that go 4-2 and all smiles again.

Come in peace .

Playing very attractive footy this year , keep the faith

Berry , Neale , McCluggage , Hipwood , Andrews , Cameron , Rayner exciting group.

Suprised Cutler not playing ..interested to see when Ely plays too
 
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I honestly hope you are right. Rayner is a fantastic talent.
I think is a wonderful talent. Very likeable kid who everyone thought would be back in Melbourne in two years. I can’t argue that he needs to get fitter and lift his endurance.

He has fully embraced the club and I think he will put the effort in to repay the faith and do such that.

I think by time Rayner is 22/23 he is a top 5 player. Genuinely do believe that. People forget just how explosive this kid is and he is still only a teenager. I think he will be a star. Just think he might need a little longer to get the body right but it will come.
 

T Rick

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As a Suns supporter who watches Lions every game I take Ainsworth over Rayner every time. Why? Just look at their bodies. Ainsworth was unlucky with injuries but worked extremely hard from day 1 including his tank. This allows him to play significant minutes in midfield this year.

Rayner is unbelievable talent but is he willing to work hard is the main question. Rayner body shape and inability to run to AFL standard has me worried. Next preseason will be telling. In my opinion Rayner and Witherden need kick in the butt from Fagan. Is Fagan actually too nice to players? I was not impressed by his presser.
What was it about Fages presser in particular that did not impress you?
 

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Lionheart182

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Pretty ironic that Rayner is supposedly gifted games for being a number one pick yet played better than half our guys on Thursday but still gets more heavily scrutinised...because he was a number one pick.

Can’t have it both ways, he is clearly still developing but I am super bullish about him.
 
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Pretty ironic that Rayner is supposedly gifted games for being a number one pick yet played better than half our guys on Thursday but still gets more heavily scrutinised...because he was a number one pick.

Can’t have it both ways, he is clearly still developing but I am super bullish about him.
So if the output that Rayner has produced in the first 4 weeks was done by Ben Keyes or Lewy Taylor would they still be in the team ? Pretty emphatically could say no as far as I’m concerned. I love the kid on what he could be but as I said pretty disappointing to see him come back not in the condition he left which is why he isn’t up to pace atm . The reason he hasn’t been dropped due to output is because of what he could be so yes he is currently being picked on his potential talent no doubt there . We are all entitled to our opinion my I genuinely hope he comes good and become the star we hoped he will be and yes early days but I think he has been very underwhelming thus far .
 

Lionheart182

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So if the output that Rayner has produced in the first 4 weeks was done by Ben Keyes or Lewy Taylor would they still be in the team ? Pretty emphatically could say no as far as I’m concerned. I love the kid on what he could be but as I said pretty disappointing to see him come back not in the condition he left which is why he isn’t up to pace atm . The reason he hasn’t been dropped due to output is because of what he could be so yes he is currently being picked on his potential talent no doubt there . We are all entitled to our opinion my I genuinely hope he comes good and become the star we hoped he will be and yes early days but I think he has been very underwhelming thus far .
Similarly, if these players had produced what Rayner did in his first year would they be so readily dropped? I would say no and in fact we have some objective evidence to back this up as Lewy Taylor's second season was quite poor but he was not dropped for some time after winning the rising star the year before and playing some pretty good footy. Credits in the bank and all that.

Again, is there any source he supposedly came back in poor shape? All we heard all pre-season is how ever player was running PB's and was in great shape. Now all of a sudden we hear not only that Rayner has come back in terrible shape but we have an exact number of kilo's over his goal weight? Sounds like ******** and I see nothing to suggest he is in worse shape than he should be.

Clearly copped an injury in the North game and could barely move for at least the rest of that game and looked hampered against the Bombers. Was moving pretty well Thursday and I would say again that of all our forwards he and Charlie Cameron looked the most dangerous. A fair recency bias in all these posts given the moments he gave us last year.
 
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Rayner did an interview where he said he came back 4 kgs from his currently playing weight and said he had to go 4 boxing sessions a week to get back into shape he was previous season.
 

Lionheart182

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Rayner did an interview where he said he came back 4 kgs from his currently playing weight and said he had to go 4 boxing sessions a week to get back into shape he was previous season.
Link? I reckon I heard and read a huge number of interviews over the pre-season like I always do and I can't recall this one.
 
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Rayner isn’t in the best form at the moment but there are probably 6-8 players who have been down the last 3 games.

He is clearly a best 22 player. I am confident he will play into shape and he stays in the team.

When we as a team play better so will cam. You can tell he’s a big game player. Personally I thought the stage was set for him on Thursday night. That’s footy I guess.
 

jackess

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Rayner isn’t in the best form at the moment but there are probably 6-8 players who have been down the last 3 games.

He is clearly a best 22 player. I am confident he will play into shape and he stays in the team.

When we as a team play better so will cam. You can tell he’s a big game player. Personally I thought the stage was set for him on Thursday night. That’s footy I guess.
And is it worth bringing in Keays who's been a less reliable goal kicker and probably doesn't have the upside? Stick with Rayner.

It would be great to drop guys like Rayner, McStay, Gardiner, Christensen, etc. if we had guys in the 2s who are proven to be able to play at least as well as the out of form players in the seniors but we don't.
 

Bucking Beads

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We probably aren't getting the best out of Rayner with how our structure is at the moment. I wouldn't mind to play him out of the square and see what he can do 1 on 1. Isolate him up forward and give him a chance to shine. He just doesn't have the fitness base to be doing what we need from him at half forward/wing yet.
 

snooplions

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Even if Rayner has started the year slow due to coming back out of shape, it's not like he had a great fitness base to start with last year but he was still able to impact games and keep his spot. I think he will work his way into the season and we'll see his match fitness get better each round. I also think that corkie has slowed him down for a few weeks but I have faith he'll get back to where he needs to be soon enough.

Rayner aside for one moment, how good is Hugh McCluggage atm. He is absolutely killing it. Starting to kicks regular multiples of schnags now and show his true class.
 

jason pm

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how good is Hugh McCluggage atm. He is absolutely killing it. Starting to kicks regular multiples of schnags now and show his true class.
Being a goal kicking midfielder was one of his great attributes as a junior, IIRC he had the best ever average goals per game in the TAC cup and/or National Champs.

Very confident Hugh is going to be an elite mid of the competition.
 
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