Autopsy Round 5, 2020: Hawthorn falls in a heap against the Giants

[Bruno Oresar]

After a little bit of hope I have come to this sad realisation. We are capable of beating the best sides in the competition on any given day but only if they are off. We can’t go with the best if they are switched on.

 

[Spursfan]

Much better than anything we have

He is better than anything we have, much better. Plus, he may need a change of scenery, Richmond have 6-7 small forwards, we don’t, I think he’d flourish. PS was his dream to be a Hawk, don’t forget that.

Not the point though. We'd have to give up more than he's worth most likely just to get him, when we can hopefully get a DFA / late draft pick swap for a player who can do a similar job

 

[TazHawk15]

How many more games will Timmy be gifted? He hasn’t improved on last years form and he’s been like this his whole career, 1 good year and the following year he goes backwards again.
I’ve never been a fan of his, but thought last he finally made it.

I would rather Timmy keeps getting gifted games long before Lewis gets his games gifted.

 

[Noel Gallagher]

I had had two major concerns since 2016 and both seem to be coming to fruition simultaneously. First is going the top up route. I don't begrudge the club doing this - how could you when we jagged TOM and JOM in the same draft? Wingard is a all class but cost us a shitload as JOM did. Prior to that though we wasted a first round pick on JOR a complete bust. Anyhow as mentioned previously by other posters the club was looking to compliment these players with free agents namely TL and Coniglio - bothfailed to come through which essentially derailed our overall strategy. These things happen and again I don't begrudge the club for trying this.

What I do begrudge is the corrupt AFL doing everything and anything for GWS and GC to succeed. GC is now the GWS - they have a plethora of first round draft picks and an embarrasment of riches at their disposal. Whats worse is the sychophant media cheering them on at any opportunity they get. How the hell can we compete with that? GW has been brilliant with his draft picks but you do get a sense that we have been patching up holes before the dam wall eventually bursts. Making things even worse has been poor performing poorly run clubs like Melbourne also eating up very high draft picks simply because they are $hit year in year out

We all know that the overall financial state of the AFL is in peril because of the tens of millions of dollars poured into both franchise clubs. It was arrogant and unnecessary, GWS may succeed but GC never will. They know it and we know it.

Just to prove the greed of the AFL, my local football club is STILL being pressured by the AFL to get Auskick up and running in these perilous times. It is just not worth the time, hastle and stress with all the COVID restrictions that are currently in place. They are doing this because they pocket around 80-90% of all Auskick registrations.

Final rant, umpiring against us this year is so obviously biased for the opposing side. Just speechless over what they have and haven't paid. Commentators were even joking last night about how were being screwed- you just couldnt make this stuff up. Im over it

AFL can GAGF - Go Hawks!

 

[Roddy]

How many more games will Timmy be gifted? He hasn’t improved on last years form and he’s been like this his whole career, 1 good year and the following year he goes backwards again.
I’ve never been a fan of his, but thought last he finally made it.

‘One good year’ actually translates to a small handful of semi decent games. At best. He’s been the ultimate tease, six years of foreplay without orgasm. Needs to be put up as trade bait or we’ll end up getting zero value from him whatsoever.
And I was a defender of his for 3-4 years...

 

[Roddy]

I would rather Timmy keeps getting gifted games long before Lewis gets his games gifted.

Are you Tim’s mother or something?

 

[ScottMaginness]

I would rather Timmy keeps getting gifted games long before Lewis gets his games gifted.

The plan is to get him to 100 games and hope he has some talented kids.

Seriously, on a poor night overall, he was back to a typical 2016-2018 Timmy game ( when he wasn't playing Melbourne ). Ineffective, then goes missing for so long you are only reminded he is playing because he bobs up on the wing to take a strong overhead mark in the 3rd quarter only to then go missing again for the rest of the game. If there was ever a player who needs to listen to John Kennedy Snr's "Do Something" speech on loop for 3 hours until it sinks in it is him.

 

[Pessimistic]

I had had two major concerns since 2016 and both seem to be coming to fruition simultaneously. First is going the top up route. I don't begrudge the club doing this - how could you when we jagged TOM and JOM in the same draft? Wingard is a all class but cost us a shitload as JOM did. Prior to that though we wasted a first round pick on JOR a complete bust. Anyhow as mentioned previously by other posters the club was looking to compliment these players with free agents namely TL and Coniglio - bothfailed to come through which essentially derailed our overall strategy. These things happen and again I don't begrudge the club for trying this.

What I do begrudge is the corrupt AFL doing everything and anything for GWS and GC to succeed. GC is now the GWS - they have a plethora of first round draft picks and an embarrasment of riches at their disposal. Whats worse is the sychophant media cheering them on at any opportunity they get. How the hell can we compete with that? GW has been brilliant with his draft picks but you do get a sense that we have been patching up holes before the dam wall eventually bursts. Making things even worse has been poor performing poorly run clubs like Melbourne also eating up very high draft picks simply because they are $hit year in year out

We all know that the overall financial state of the AFL is in peril because of the tens of millions of dollars poured into both franchise clubs. It was arrogant and unnecessary, GWS may succeed but GC never will. They know it and we know it.

Just to prove the greed of the AFL, my local football club is STILL being pressured by the AFL to get Auskick up and running in these perilous times. It is just not worth the time, hastle and stress with all the COVID restrictions that are currently in place. They are doing this because they pocket around 80-90% of all Auskick registrations.

Final rant, umpiring against us this year is so obviously biased for the opposing side. Just speechless over what they have and haven't paid. Commentators were even joking last night about how were being screwed- you just couldnt make this stuff up. Im over it

AFL can GAGF - Go Hawks!

They may have gifted the expansion clubs first rate players but they sent third rate admin staff. so the money really was a waste.

Kevin Sheedy? Old wino who may be well known here but he went about as well as Eddie did at channel 9 HQ. unknown.

 

[Davo23]

Such a frustrating game:

1. It reminded of the 2019 game against the Bulldogs, when they were gifted the game. We had injuries and an invasion of abusive Bulldogs supporters that night in our Gold membership area. Andy & Davo23 the nearest we've been to starting a fistfight at the footy!

2. The free kicks were bad, but that s**t just happens, and you have to deal with it. I think the First Quarter turnovers from experienced players was much worse, gave the opposition some easy goals, and we just couldn't bridge the gap.

4. The GWS are not such a great team - just gifted money to keep all their high draft picks - they don't need gifts from the umpires.

5. And those posters making sarcastic remarks about Tim O'Brien can just * off now.


Go Hawks!

 

[Milkshaker]

You know what, why wait, jump now man... we're cooked at 3-2..

I stopped watching after we kept getting pinged for holding and they got called play on for about the fourth time in a row. Don't tell me that does not have an effect on morale. Missing the crowd booing the umps the boys atm.

 

[travgohawks23]

I dont think we are travelling too bad considering the draw. We have really played 1 very poor half of footy against the cats. Last night wasn't that bad, we got beaten by a team that has had our measure for a while and we were down two players for the 2nd half.
I also think the player list is pretty good, although some players have to go or improve (every team has this):
Puopolo hasnt played well for two years and should not get another game, give anyone else a go, they cant do any worse.
O'Brien is nearly there, but has been nearly there his whole career. I am not sure whether to keep him or not.
Henderson is a mystery, top 5 last year to struggle town this year, I assume he will come good with more games under his belt this year.
Lewis, similar to obrien except it hasnt been over 7 years. Worth holding onto, hopefully he can put on some muscle as like obrien he gets pushed around too easy.

Our back line is generally solid most games, Frawley, Frost, Sicily, Stratton, Hardwick, Burgoyne and Scrimshaw all do an amazing job considering how often the ball comes rebounding back in quickly.
Our midfield on skills looks amazing with Mitchell, Worpel and O'meara starting off, from there it drops away considerably.
Our Wings/runners are hot and cold, smith is still good, shiels is a workhorse without being a standout, henderson needs to get back to 2019 form. Scully is similar to shiels.
Our Forward line is poor, we need some strong bodies down there with a mix of speedy ground players and players who can mark (exception gunston). I still think Patton is our best stay at home forward, just need to get the ball in quicker to give him a chance 1 on 1. Gunston needs to be the leading forward, wingard needs to be the roaming forward, breust needs to be the 4th forward to help wingard
Our Ruck division also isnt bad, McEvoy can hold his own against most ruckmen, ceglar is a good backup.

I would like to see Maginness get a go, Jones was good in his first game and deserves another round this week. Bring in Moore for Puopolo.

Move the ball quickly down the ground to give our forwards the chance to lead up and take an uncontested mark, or one out to patton in the goal square.

 

[threesixpio]

Just wondering ...is there a bit of an issue with our pre-game preparation this year?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

You can say the same for a win though. We had a few world beaters after the last two weeks.

I think we are seeing why Scully cost a 4th round pick (limited ceiling) and why Scrimshaw cost loose change (very talented but constantly injured).

Gotta be somewhat worried about the list three years from now. Conceivably, all of McEvoy, Burgoyne, Frawley, Smith, Stratton, Scully and Henderson are no longer on the list while Breust, Gunston and Shiels will all be 30+. Who's replacing them?

Yes we can get excited about Jeka, CJ, Kosi, Jones, Moore, Walker etc but more than likely, only a few will make the cut. As we have seen with Morrison, most of these kids are drafted late for a reason.

Our strategy is modelled on overseas models where the best franchises can land the biggest free agents on a consistent basis. Problem is, Australian sport operates very differently. It is harder to get players out of their club and, when you do, you are one of a host of attractive options.

Interesting times ahead.

We’re 3 & 2 after arguably the hardest start to the year of any team.

I think most of us would’ve taken that record knowing we’d be playing against Richmond, Brisbane, Cats and Giants in our first 5 weeks.

14 shots on goal from 38 inside 50’s is always going to be tough to get you over the line. We smacked them in clearances and inside 50’s, but couldn't convert it to scoreboard pressure. That’s the ball game.

Long range forecasts and list discussions at this point in time can be a bit knee jerk after a loss, but there’s not a lot separating winning and losing in this comp most weeks.

 

[thejockey]

Pretty happy to be at 3-2 given the fixture.

To go 2-2 from matches against Geelong at GMHBA, reigning premier, pain in the arse North, and last year's runner up at their home ground is a good effort.

Its about where we are at tbh . Since return we have played 2 sides near the top who both have beaten us comfortable .

North look average and although we controlled most the game we barely got through.
Richmond was a great scalp but reality is they were way down on form .

The results are there to see , a month in I think is a pretty good indicator .

 

[Spursfan]

Its about where we are at tbh . Since return we have played 2 sides near the top who both have beaten us comfortable .

North look average and although we controlled most the game we barely got through.
Richmond was a great scalp but reality is they were way down on form .

The results are there to see , a month in I think is a pretty good indicator .

Agree, but Geelong are no better than us

 

[burner1]

Most games this year have been decided by one team not turning up.

We turned up last night - the pressure, commitment and work rate was there - and got easily beaten. GWS figured out our game plan - control the ball across HB to draw our our zone then attack and isolate our defenders (with often ground balls in). Once GWS mids got on top we looked very shaky.

I know others disageee but just don’t think we have the cattle for a flag. We have an old list and side and Clarko is smart enough to sneak wins if the opposition is ‘off’ (eg tiges and we got jump on north). But as we saw in the finals a few years back we are off the pace when the other team turns up to play.

We are not rebuilding and if we can’t match contending teams such as GWS then we are just wasting everyone’s time. Other than Breust that was the best side we’ve put on park this year.

We’re an 7-12th side with a coach and experienced list that over a season more often performs at the 7th level rather than a 12th. But this club is about winning flags, not making finals.

 

[Changa10]

Who is this cringe female on the bounce? Please stop

Isn't she awful? Tries way too hard to fit in, but she is just an idiot.

our season in a nutshell, unbelievably the commentary realised how terrible this one was, but will anything change? heck no
#freekickhawthorn

Hahaha, from the AFL that I have watched the past 2-3 years, that is interpreted as a legitimate way to dispose of the ball. This is exactly the call that Clarko was speaking of last week, but umpires still can't get it right.

If I remember correctly this ended up going the length of the field and resulted in a goal to the Giants. Should have been a shot on goal at our end. I was expecting us to get a bit of backlash from the umpires last night after Clarko's presser last week.

Can't blame the umpires for last nights result, but they sure didn't help.

The way we deliver the football to our forward line is like watching U13's. Just get it in and hope that someone competes in the air and at least brings the ball to ground. The times that we actually put the ball out in front or to our forwards advantage (Wingard about the only one that does this well) it ended up with shots on goal.

A frustrating game to watch that's for sure.

JOM looked good again, getting better and more consistent would be a bonus.

Jones need to stay for a few weeks and see how he settles in. Liked his first game, looked like he could make a go of it.

Gunners was hit on the lead twice and slotted two really nice long shots.

Wasn't too much else to like really.

 

[4THAWN]

F*ck me dead, you'd think we got smashed in every area of last night's game with some of the posts here.

We could play so much better than that it's not even funny. Our backline is usually twice as good as that at minimum. Our forward entries were woeful, and should surely improve.

Not to mention we got smashed by the umpires, and GWS kicked extremely accurately for goal while we lost 2 players/rotations.

There were positives with Clarkos coaching, he was quick to move Mcevoy from his bad matchup and have him move into the ruck/forward with good effect. After conceding 4 in the opening quarter, our defensive set up was extremely solid in the 2nd Quarter where they never even looked like scoring.

There were positives with the team, Titch's first half was really solid and he was starting to look like himself again. Jaeger was pretty good as well I thought. Harry Jones showed something I thought too. Gunston was pretty good. It's not like we played horribly the whole game.

Seriously, our skills improve 5% and with a bit more luck, we could easily win that game. No reason to be too disheartened after one loss like that.

FFS they kicked 1 goal in the 2nd quarter off the back of Hendo's worst kick since he's been at the club.

 

[Dewnior]

Just wondering ...is there a bit of an issue with our pre-game preparation this year?

Yep, and I reckon it's coz Teia is not part of it anymore

 

[RoughysMullet]

The umpire Hawk reaming started semi final 2016 vs dogs when Toby McLean ducked into a tackle and was given a free goal at a critical time which completely turned the game and gave them the momentum...
Unfortunately it hasn’t stopped since then, I’d love to see our free kick differential since 2016 compared to other clubs- would be startled if we aren’t last by a whopping margin...

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Have the hawks askedfor aplease explain from the afl?
2 htb free kicks in 120 tackles warrants that i would think.

Bizaare umpiring.

No excuse though, gws were better.

But i feel that, with some fairer umpiring, we might of stolen that

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[kirbatron]

We play Melbourne in 2 weeks. Timmy stays in til then!

 

[hawkheart]

The Giants chose to tag Worps over Mitch. Thoughts? Do you think they considered Worps more damaging by foot?

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Just wondering ...is there a bit of an issue with our pre-game preparation this year?

Our boys did not look "on". Sicily in particular has lost his 'unsociable edge' and is poorer for it. Scully had some very 'timid' moments, OBRien keeps flying but holding nothing, Cegs is on one week and off the next, McEvoy experiment down back is the same. Patton rally needs to come in and have a big game.

 

[threesixpio]

Most games this year have been decided by one team not turning up.

We turned up last night - the pressure, commitment and work rate was there - and got easily beaten. GWS figured out our game plan - control the ball across HB to draw our our zone then attack and isolate our defenders (with often ground balls in). Once GWS mids got on top we looked very shaky.

I know others disageee but just don’t think we have the cattle for a flag. We have an old list and side and Clarko is smart enough to sneak wins if the opposition is ‘off’ (eg tiges and we got jump on north). But as we saw in the finals a few years back we are off the pace when the other team turns up to play.

We are not rebuilding and if we can’t match contending teams such as GWS then we are just wasting everyone’s time. Other than Breust that was the best side we’ve put on park this year.

We’re an 7-12th side with a coach and experienced list that over a season more often performs at the 7th level rather than a 12th. But this club is about winning flags, not making finals.

I actually didn’t think we turned up last night.