Review Round 5, 2020 vs Brisbane

[edgie]

Ken using whack reminds me of some Oscar worthy dialogue from Home and Away I seen once.

'You flirting with my girl mate?'
'I don't see your name on her'
'I reckon I've had enough of you'
'Yeah, come over here and I'll whack ya'
'Alright'

Que fisticuffs.

I'd rather watch that again then that second quarter. Blokes had more fight in them.

 

[Macca19]

Clurey taking a lot of heat for the lack of leadership of the captain that stands next to him letting him get beaten.

Clurey was moved onto 3 different players and was bad on all three. As Derm said during the second quarter "The runner will be coming to Tom Clurey soon with a message that it would be nice if he could maybe get in front of his opponent, he's following him around like a trailer at the moment"

 

[Rising Power]

what is happening in the SANFL this year? I just googled and it seems to be an 8 team comp.

Are the left over port and crows players getting a game anywhere for development?

AFL directive that AFL listed players are not to participate in state leagues this year. Those in the hub are playing scratch matches, even combining with other clubs to fill out a team against the QLD clubs. Those left behind, not playing at all.

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

Rather have pushed Clurey out than Howard last trade period

He needs to stop being graded as a team level. The only player he hasn't gotten beaten by is a washed up Tex this season

 

[edgie]

Clurey was moved onto 3 different players and was bad on all three. As Derm said during the second quarter "The runner will be coming to Tom Clurey soon with a message that it would be nice if he could maybe get in front of his opponent, he's following him around like a trailer at the moment"

Flashbacks to Ben Brown last year where Jonas moved on to him after 5 goals, he kicks 2 more in a row, then Clurey is back on him.

It's not particularly impressive leadership to be like 'Oh, I suck at this too, oh well you can have him back'.

 

[JUSTWORK]

Flashbacks to Ben Brown last year where Jonas moved on to him after 5 goals, he kicks 2 more in a row, then Clurey is back on him.

It's not particularly impressive leadership to be like 'Oh, I suck at this too, oh well you can have him back'.

We could have had McGovern, Andrews and Rance in the back 6 that night and it wouldn't have made much difference the delivery Brown was getting because of the pathetic effort from the Midfeild.

 

[MrMeaner]

I don't know why we are persisting with Lycett in the centre bounce? It is clear the tactic of blocking the opponent's ruckman is not working. It didn't work against Naitanui (at least he was more serviceable around the ground in that game). It didn't work last night. If he can't jump, he's a liability at restarts.

 

[sobrave]

supposedly Neale did bugger all when they won the match in the 2nd quarter.


View attachment 906190

Wow Hipwood was complete s**t! Could have fooled me

 

[Macca19]

I just went through all the centre stoppages for the first 2 1/2 quarters as that is where we lost the game. Sadly, our key mids just had an absolute stinker of a night and it didn't matter who we put in there. It wasn't until the 3rd quarter when we put Gray in the middle that we started to get back to a level playing field at stoppages. This was how each centre stoppage looked and who the direct opponents were:

FIRST QUARTER

1.
Wines / Boak / SPP
CEY / Lyons / Neale
Clearance - Powell Pepper

2.
Boak / SPP / Rockliff
Neale / Lyons / Berry
Clearance - Re-Bounce then Farrell from the wing

3.
Boak / Rockliff / Wines
McCarthy / Neale / Berry
Clearance - Wines

(this is where it turns to s**t)

4.
Rockliff / Ebert / Rozee
Lyons / Berry / Neale
Clearance - Berry

SECOND QUARTER

1.
Rockliff / Boak / Wines
Lyons / Neale / Berry
Clearance - Re-Bounce then Lyons

2.
Rockliff / Boak / Wines
McCarthy / Neale / Lyons
Clearance - Lyons

3.
Wines / SPP / Rozee
McCarthy / Lyons / Neale
Clearance - Lyons

4.
Wines / SPP / Boak
Neale / McCarthy / Rayner
Clearance - McCarthy

5.
Boak / SPP / Rockliff
Cameron / Berry / Rayner
Clearance - Ebert (Quick kick, turned over by Birchall, straight back I50 to Brisbane)

6.
Rockliff / Boak / SPP
Neale / Lyons / Berry
Clearance - Ebert HTB - McLuggage free kick

7.
Boak / Wines / Rozee
Berry / Lyons / Neale
Clearance - Lyons

THIRD QUARTER

1.
Boak / Wines / Rozee
Berry / Neale / Lyons
Clearance - Lyons

2.
Boak / Wines / Rozee
Berry / Lyons / Neale
Clearance - Martin

3.
Wines / Gray / Boak
Berry / Rayner / Neale
Clearance - Berry

4.
Boak / Gray / SPP
Neale / Lyons / Berry
Clearance - Boak

5.
Boak / Gray / SPP
McCarthy / Neale / Lyons
Clearance - Boak to Gray

Then I stopped.

Overall in that time:

Wines - 10 CBA, 1 Clearance
Boak - 14 CBA, 1 Clearance
SPP - 8 CBA, 1 Clearance
Rockliff - 7 CBA, 0 Clearances
Ebert - 1 CBA, 0 Clearances
Rozee - 5 CBA, 0 Clearances
Gray - 3 CBA, 1 Clearance

To not have a single centre clearance to our advantage in the second quarter was telling. Lyons murdered us. He won 5 out of 8 clearances through the 2nd & start of the 3rd quarter with us trying 4 different players on him.

Our mids just always seemed to be on the wrong side of where the ball was dropping. We certainly shat the bed in the backline with all that quick ball coming in. Bonner & Jonas giving away free kicks, then there was Rozee soccering the ball around like a 4 year old right in front of their goal which resulted in another goal as well.

Not sure what else Hinkley and Schofield can do when the midfielders are getting that pummeled. We tried numerous different players through there and pretty much all of them weren't any good at getting the ball. We were far too defensive minded and had noone actually hunting the ball.

 

[PJ Power]

I just went through all the centre stoppages for the first 2 1/2 quarters as that is where we lost the game. Sadly, our key mids just had an absolute stinker of a night and it didn't matter who we put in there. It wasn't until the 3rd quarter when we put Gray in the middle that we started to get back to a level playing field at stoppages. This was how each centre stoppage looked and who the direct opponents were:

FIRST QUARTER

1.
Wines / Boak / SPP
CEY / Lyons / Neale
Clearance - Powell Pepper

2.
Boak / SPP / Rockliff
Neale / Lyons / Berry
Clearance - Re-Bounce then Farrell from the wing

3.
Boak / Rockliff / Wines
McCarthy / Neale / Berry
Clearance - Wines

(this is where it turns to sh*t)

4.
Rockliff / Ebert / Rozee
Lyons / Berry / Neale
Clearance - Berry

SECOND QUARTER

1.
Rockliff / Boak / Wines
Lyons / Neale / Berry
Clearance - Re-Bounce then Lyons

2.
Rockliff / Boak / Wines
McCarthy / Neale / Lyons
Clearance - Lyons

3.
Wines / SPP / Rozee
McCarthy / Lyons / Neale
Clearance - Lyons

4.
Wines / SPP / Boak
Neale / McCarthy / Rayner
Clearance - McCarthy

5.
Boak / SPP / Rockliff
Cameron / Berry / Rayner
Clearance - Ebert (Quick kick, turned over by Birchall, straight back I50 to Brisbane)

6.
Rockliff / Boak / SPP
Neale / Lyons / Berry
Clearance - Ebert HTB - McLuggage free kick

7.
Boak / Wines / Rozee
Berry / Lyons / Neale
Clearance - Lyons

THIRD QUARTER

1.
Boak / Wines / Rozee
Berry / Neale / Lyons
Clearance - Lyons

2.
Boak / Wines / Rozee
Berry / Lyons / Neale
Clearance - Martin

3.
Wines / Gray / Boak
Berry / Rayner / Neale
Clearance - Berry

4.
Boak / Gray / SPP
Neale / Lyons / Berry
Clearance - Boak

5.
Boak / Gray / SPP
McCarthy / Neale / Lyons
Clearance - Boak to Gray

Then I stopped.

Overall in that time:

Wines - 10 CBA, 1 Clearance
Boak - 14 CBA, 1 Clearance
SPP - 8 CBA, 1 Clearance
Rockliff - 7 CBA, 0 Clearances
Ebert - 1 CBA, 0 Clearances
Rozee - 5 CBA, 0 Clearances
Gray - 3 CBA, 1 Clearance

To not have a single centre clearance to our advantage in the second quarter was telling. Lyons murdered us. He won 5 out of 8 clearances through the 2nd & start of the 3rd quarter with us trying 4 different players on him.

Our mids just always seemed to be on the wrong side of where the ball was dropping. We certainly shat the bed in the backline with all that quick ball coming in. Bonner & Jonas giving away free kicks, then there was Rozee soccering the ball around like a 4 year old right in front of their goal which resulted in another goal as well.

Not sure what else Hinkley and Schofield can do when the midfielders are getting that pummeled. We tried numerous different players through there and pretty much all of them weren't any good at getting the ball. We were far too defensive minded and had noone actually hunting the ball.

Yeah, I thought it was bad but this is damning. Boak, Wines, Rockliff and SPP are all supposed to be clearance specialists and contested beasts. They were soundly beaten by Lyons and Berry. Perhaps we were far too mindful and defensive on Neale which created a negative, reactive mindset at the centre clearances. This coupled with Lycett's non-jumping got us poorly positioned. Neale still got almost 30 disposals, and tbh they didn't seem anywhere near as effective or dangerous as those of Berry and Lyons.

Something has to change in the centre-square, both personnel and mindset. Lycett also needs to review his approach last night.

In the last year, there are four matches that stand out to me as comprehensive thrashings in the midfield: Collingwood, Bulldogs, North in 2019 and last night against Brisbane. We've been poor in the ruck in each of those matches and have had no defensive cover out of midfield. Must be more consistent and competitive than that.

 

[PJ Power]

Not sure what else Hinkley and Schofield can do when the midfielders are getting that pummeled. We tried numerous different players through there and pretty much all of them weren't any good at getting the ball. We were far too defensive minded and had noone actually hunting the ball.

It's a lot about the last point you make, Macca. Although getting Butters in there asap along with Gray, who are natural hunters of the ball, might make a difference sooner.

 

[JohnHinckleyJr]

AFL directive that AFL listed players are not to participate in state leagues this year. Those in the hub are playing scratch matches, even combining with other clubs to fill out a team against the QLD clubs. Those left behind, not playing at all.

1 year off of skill development stupid really I don't no why our players couldn't of been filtered into other SANFL clubs of course we would of have had to understand their may have been injuries but development is the key

 

[Port85]

Macca stole my thunder a bit but I just went back through the 2nd Quarter

Goal 1: Lions win a stoppage and Hipwood leads Clurey to the ball, wheels around and kicks the goal from 50.

Goal 2: CB - Boak, Wines, Rocky: easy clearance to Lions but Houston mops up. We turn the ball over in the corridor bit of standard general play follows before Rozee turns it over in the corridor, I50 then Bonner gives away a free to Raynor who goals.

Goal 3: CB - Wines, SPP, Rozee: broken tackle (SPP) easy Lions win results inside 50 stoppage. Neutralise first stoppage then Rozee tries to hack the ball out of Jonas' hands and it spills to Cameron who goals

Goal 4: CB - Boak, Wines, SPP: SPP gives away a dubious holding free results in an inside 50 where Jonas is outsized on McStay and concedes a free

Goal 5: CB - Boak, SPP, Rocky: win the clearance to Ebert on the wing. Give it straight back, inside 50 followed by a contest in the pocket resulting to handball to goal square goal scored under intense pressure

"Goal 6": ok not a goal but at the CB - Hoff, Boak, SPP, Rocky. Dubious htb against Ebert coming in from wing. I50 but defence is ok but eventually Brisbane score a point. Game is more of a contest after this.

Probably only the McStay goal in that run was due to a short defence.

However constantly losing CBs or quickly turning it over after winning one caused us to be in horrible positions where mistakes (Rozee twice, Bonner once) were extremely costly. Two dubious free kicks in the centre did not help but would not have occurred if we were first to the ball.

Interesting points:

Rocky and Wines were only in one CB together but are usually both present at stoppages, which we won comfortably

Ebert is a waste on a wing at CBs, we should use him as a half-forward contested marking option for quick kicks forward from our dubious disposal brigade

2 of the goals were down to defensive errors in Bonner and Rozee. Rozee was a bit dumb but forgivable but Bonner is just a bit s**t and Burton would be a better player there

Lycett stank

While a quality tall defender would not hurt it's not going to solve the bigger issue of midfield bending over a centre bounces. That's on coaches to improve.

 

[Rising Power]

1 year off of skill development stupid really I don't no why our players couldn't of been filtered into other SANFL clubs of course we would of have had to understand their may have been injuries but development is the key

It's to isolate the AFL players from the rest of the community, to lessen the chance of catching the covid bug.

 

[JohnHinckleyJr]

It's to isolate the AFL players from the rest of the community, to lessen the chance of catching the covid bug.

0 cases I guess no one should leave the house also if that's the narrative

 

[Rising Power]

0 cases I guess no one should leave the house also if that's the narrative

That's the narrative in Melbourne. AFL players breaching protocols in Melbourne then coming into contact with others in the hub. But yeah, no risk at all.

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

Approach to this game was wrong from the start.

Went into it thinking we need to stop Brisbane rather than we can beat Brisbane. Sutcliffe named an emergency and talks of him playing this one off game to go on Neale as well.

It was like our first game against them last season when we were parading them as a dynasty pre-match despite them coming off several s**t seasons.

Our club is scared shitless when we get Brisbane. All we do is talk them up. Our players play like it too, no emphasis on winning the ball, only worried about where the Brisbane players are.

 

[Lawnchair Larry]

Clurey was moved onto 3 different players and was bad on all three. As Derm said during the second quarter "The runner will be coming to Tom Clurey soon with a message that it would be nice if he could maybe get in front of his opponent, he's following him around like a trailer at the moment"

Clurey is an endurance athlete.
He's really slow off the mark.
He couldn't play in front because he couldnt generate the pace to achieve that position.
He's in the team because he has good hands, particularly in the air.
BUT
A moderately tall quick forward and he's toast.

 

[FutureShock]

Lets turn Big Buzza into a backman!!!!! lol I'm trying

Not the worst idea, as I don't think he's good enough to succeed as a forward.
Makes no less sense than Ladhams as a backman anyway.

 

[JUSTWORK]

Not the worst idea, as I don't think he's good enough to succeed as a forward.
Makes no less sense than Ladhams as a backman anyway.

Ladhams is an elite talent and should really be playing AFL, don’t hate the idea. Westhoff can play his floating roll and push into defence when Lycett needs a rest and Ladhams can push into the Ruck.

This got me thinking about Jordan Roughed who is a premiership Ruckman now holding down full back at Collingwood.

At least gets him into the side.

 

[Alberton Proud]

Port Power Charlatans

 

[VineValerian]

OK. I put my hand up! I'm an aging dinosaur. A rusted on supporter, who believes in the quaint notion that "we always expect to win" and clearly is too emotionally invested to be dispassionate and clinical about my assessment of team and players.

Hence why I vent so often when I see crap performances, especially in a celebratory season, where we should be displaying how great we are with great performances - not putting out great catastrophes and great embarrassments to the viewing world.

I enjoy a few posters on here who appear to be even-handed and able to nail the team performances and player reviews accurately, and pinpoint clearly where things went right (and wrong).

I went into the season with no high expectations since … well, I can't remember when! Hence no setting of the bar high = less disappointments. Well, so I thought, until the debacle yesterday.

Anyway, I am endeavouring to mellow out, and I have already put most of that rubbish to one side, and look towards this week's match. Raging at clouds doesn't make me feel better. It just fuels the anger I have pent up even more.

So I shall try to be positive, and just accept that our mental toughness and resilience is not now, nor ever going to be at the requisite level to be a serious challenger.

I shall meld into the realms of the happy clappers and not harbor expectations, and just be joyful that we are part of a competition that we are not really good enough to participate in, and are achieving beyond our capabilities to be in there.

Time for a coffee and chocolate (not from a fridge)!

 

[Pt Augusta Power]

Ken has a strong, talented group of men and developed a terrific team of downhill skiers.

 

[thundercloud]

I don't know why we are persisting with Lycett in the centre bounce? It is clear the tactic of blocking the opponent's ruckman is not working. It didn't work against Naitanui (at least he was more serviceable around the ground in that game). It didn't work last night. If he can't jump, he's a liability at restarts.

I agree with this analysis. Did not like the 90 degree approach at the centre. That is the ruckmans call. He could/should have gone front on. If it was noT happening he needs to make the decision And make the call. Brogan decked their big ruckman at the first bounce and it set a tone. I thought he was ok against nat, but last night did not take the contest on. Not ok.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Great analysis of the centre bounces Macca19. I know clubs would have access to stats around stoppage combinations and clearances per bounce attended, but they're rarely made available in any form to the general public. I'd love to know more about team clearance success % with different combos, and the result of those clearances, ie if they lead to a mark or score before an opposition touch. Raw clearance numbers can be a junk stat.

I thought Rockliff coming into our side would stop exactly the sort of thing we saw in Q2. When we start getting destroyed in the middle, Rockliff's ball winning ability would shine through and arrest the slide by finding the footy and keeping his teammates involved, but that clearly isn't the case.

I've always been a bit on the fence over whether we can play both of Wines and Rockliff, and I now absolutely think we only have room for 1 of them. I'd much rather see Rozee and Butters rotating through. We need opponents to fear our midfield group's offence enough that they can't set up to simply waltz out the back. We too often (and not only in the midfield but all over the ground) set up too defensively to hurt good teams the other way, and that invites pressure and gives the opposition the opportunity to get into a rhythm. The old adage of scoreboard pressure isn't really in the Hinkley playbook.