Review Round 5, 2020 vs Brisbane

[TealPastures]

Cue Hinkley dropping Marshall for Willem Drew ..

 

[Ford Fairlane]

I quote: "It's no surprise to play Brisbane at the Gabba and get on the end of a bit of a whack".
Well, it's certainly no surprise to me, having watched the same sort of rubbish for years now. But it would be nice if the senior coach didn't give off such a whiff of meek acceptance after a performance like that.

But you conveniently exclude the comments he made about the effort not being up to scratch. It wasn't meek acceptance, he acknowledged our contributions to the defeat.

So yes it was no surprise to get a whack at Brisbane when we put in an effort like that.

This was always the game I feared most. End of the hub after a few weeks in Queensland, playing Brisbane on their home deck with a crowd aboard. And Brisbane play the quick ball movement game that seems to startle our players.

The one good thing is they didn't capitulate like the North game last year, but stuck at it and tried to play the gameplan that has been successful so far. But as another poster said earlier we didn't bring the energy or intensity that we brought to the Eagles game last week for example.

The defeat started in the midfield where we were brushed aside. And it didn't matter who the midfield mix comprised, Brisbane beat us to the ball.

The test is how we respond next week.

We started the season like a house on fire. We have played strong attacking and defensive footy that is great to watch.

We have had a setback now we have to bounce back.

 

[JimmyBC]

Brisbane would whack us anywhere as they have done at AO

 

[Visenfest]

The biggest takeaway from this game (and one a lot of us expected) is that we're stuffed against quick sides with a lot of height up forward. As soon as we lose that midfield battle for a bit, we don't have the guys down back who can compete 1 on 1. We then concede a bunch of goals within 10 minutes. We still don't have a plan B in our game plan, because Hinkley still hasn't grasped that at some point our defenders will need to be capable of holding their own physically.

 

[JimmyBC]

The biggest takeaway from this game (and one a lot of us expected) is that we're stuffed against quick sides with a lot of height up forward. As soon as we lose that midfield battle for a bit, we don't have the guys down back who can compete 1 on 1. We then concede a bunch of goals within 10 minutes. We still don't have a plan B in our game plan, because Hinkley still hasn't grasped that at some point our defenders will need to be capable of holding their own physically.

Pretty much you have to be dominating in the midfield all the time to compensate for an undersized defense once a forward line with height gets good service against us it's all fckn over.

 

[PepeSilvia]

I cant sleep, that was a reality check.

Kennys off season of giving away picks for Rockliff, Watts, McKenzie, Trengove etc ended up clogging the list to take a shot at more young talent that would be in prime right now. Thankfully he got the order from someone with Butters Duursma and Rozee 2 years ago.

Because of those short term decisions, Brisbane is a good 12-24 months in front of us

Note- Gray is gone. he is 32 and has lost his step and you do not get that back

How many draft picks do you think we gave up for the four players you mentioned?

 

[manureid]

So has Rozee been kern'd?

 

[Windy Cindy]

Kennedy is 196cms not 204cms like Hipwood , Darling is 191cms not 197cms like McStay. Yes Hickey is a ruck like the Big O.

Richmond in 2017 had Rance 195cms and Ashbury 195cms with Grimes 193cms vs Jenkins 200cms, Walker 193cms and Lynch 193cms. That was not a differential of 13+13+7 cms.

Richmond in 2019 had Ashbury 195cms, Grimes 193cms and Broad 192cms vs Cameron 196cm, Finlayson 196cm and Himmelberg 194cm. Once again its not a differential of 13+13+7 cms. Plus GWS were spent. They snuck over the line in 2 consecutive finals and I said before the GF, they reminded me of Geelong 1994, spent all their tickets making the GF and had nothing left in the tank come GF, so their mid field was on a hiding to nothing.

Sure if one midfield dominates, it makes it tough on the other sides defence, but team defence works well if you break even in or dominate in the middle. If your defence is undersized and isn't good at 1 on 1's then because they are playing out of their weight divisions, they will get exposed by the better teams. Team defence covers up individual deficiencies made by list management, lack of depth and coach preferences.

All of Hipwood marks were on the lead..not pack marks. I can’t recall Oscar taking a pack mark, and McStay is not massive and he just outplayed mckenzie. They got lucky with some arsey clearances and some good kicks to blokes in front.

I’m not totally disagreeing REH I’m just saying it can work if ya mids at least break even. It works for teams with a midfield group that doesn’t get spanked.

 

[Port85]

Pretty much you have to be dominating in the midfield all the time to compensate for an undersized defense once a forward line with height gets good service against us it's all fckn over.

I agree, except I think the defence is really only fully exposed at centre bounces. We lost 20pts from that source alone last night.

It kills us because we could work really hard but concede a goal to the Lions through something like a turnover trying to take a risk but then immediately concede another (or 2 more like last night).

It's going to cause huge problems giving up easy goals to good centre bounce teams.

 

[Windy Cindy]

That was Dougal. 6-5 and quick off the mark. He got traded
[/QUOTE

Harris Andrews is the best defender in the comp.

Embarrassing post.

by a fair way as well

 

[RangaInTeal]

Please tell me Hinkley Roasted the umpires and put our blokes on notice in the presser!

 

[Chewy316]

The biggest takeaway from this game (and one a lot of us expected) is that we're stuffed against quick sides with a lot of height up forward. As soon as we lose that midfield battle for a bit, we don't have the guys down back who can compete 1 on 1. We then concede a bunch of goals within 10 minutes. We still don't have a plan B in our game plan, because Hinkley still hasn't grasped that at some point our defenders will need to be capable of holding their own physically.

I would have liked to.see Westhoff sent back to defence earlier in the 2nd quarter when the run on was evident.

At the same time, is there a taller side than Brisbane in the comp? Hipwood, McStay and McInerney are 3 absolutely beanpoles with a greater than 7 foot wingspan on each of them. I can't think of another team with that type of height in the forward line. Our defenders weren't up for the fight last night, but im not going to ignore the first 4 games and look at yesterday's performance as the norm.

My bigger concern is the midfield. Lycett was abused last night and was terrible for 2 and a half quarters against West Coast. He can't leap and is a one trick pony at this point. And then there's a clear midfield imbalance playing Wines and Rockliff in the same side. We can get away with it against slower midfields, but not against a quick team like Brisbane.

 

[JUSTWORK]

Please tell me Hinkley Roasted the umpires and put our blokes on notice in the presser!

Yes the umpires were really poor, game then a few soft frees that caused goals, missed decisions in the middle that handed them at least 1 and missed 2 obvious frees in front of goal to us.

That said, when you get the sort of piss weak effort that we put up you don't get to criticise the umpires.

Our guys were disgraceful and selection next week should reflect that.

 

[Powerade 08]

All of these guys have dropped off a cliff in the middle. Not surprising but.

Wines av 14 touches the last 2 games
Rockliff 17 touches last 3 games
SPP 11 touches last 4 games
Rozee 12 touches last 3 games

Lycett 17 hitouts, 0.5 marks last 2 games

 

[TeeKray]

All of Hipwood marks were on the lead..not pack marks. I can’t recall Oscar taking a pack mark, and McStay is not massive and he just outplayed mckenzie. They got lucky with some arsey clearances and some good kicks to blokes in front.

I’m not totally disagreeing REH I’m just saying it can work if ya mids at least break even. It works for teams with a midfield group that doesn’t get spanked.

The midfield got spanked and put the defence under immense pressure but they folded like a pack of cards.

I mean, how many times have we creamed teams in midfield, had +30 inside 50s, etc, and then watched Jeremy McGovern or someone take 14 intercept marks as we kicked 5.9 and lost by a kick? Defenders are not just for decoration, they're actually allowed to defend.

 

[Port85]

I would have liked to.see Westhoff sent back to defence earlier in the 2nd quarter when the run on was evident.

At the same time, is there a taller side than Brisbane in the comp? Hipwood, McStay and McInerney are 3 absolutely beanpoles with a greater than 7 foot wingspan on each of them. I can't think of another team with that type of height in the forward line. Our defenders weren't up for the fight last night, but im not going to ignore the first 4 games and look at yesterday's performance as the norm.

My bigger concern is the midfield. Lycett was abused last night and was terrible for 2 and a half quarters against West Coast. He can't leap and is a one trick pony at this point. And then there's a clear midfield imbalance playing Wines and Rockliff in the same side. We can get away with it against slower midfields, but not against a quick team like Brisbane.

God we better hope we don't get Brisbane if we make finals then.

Problem is we don't actually have any better mids to come in, we'd need to rob our forward line of Gray, Butters or Rozee.

Houston could maybe get moved in more permanently and his absence from defence be covered by quality (injury prone Burton) or potential (Bergman). Houston is more closer to Rockliff than Wines tho.

 

[RossFC]

All of these guys have dropped off a cliff in the middle. Not surprising but.

Wines av 14 touches the last 2 games
Rockliff 17 touches last 3 games
SPP 11 touches last 4 games
Rozee 12 touches last 3 games

Lycett 17 hitouts, 0.5 marks last 2 games

Take into account the short quarters. In normal footy Lycett would have three quarters of a mark.

 

[Windy Cindy]

The midfield got spanked and put the defence under immense pressure but they folded like a pack of cards.

I mean, how many times have we creamed teams in midfield, had +30 inside 50s, etc, and then watched Jeremy McGovern or someone take 14 intercept marks as we kicked 5.9 and lost by a kick? Defenders are not just for decoration, they're actually allowed to defend.

Yeah we have seen that plenty of times and a lot of it was to do again with our s**t midfields kicking skills and a s**t game plan and kicked on Sam grays head

I’m happy to back in defence if our mids can at least break even and if they lose a clearance they put bloody pressure on them.

Im again not totally disagree8ng but I reckon blaming the undersized defence lets our s**t midfield group of the hook and we have done this over the last 4 years.

Until we develop an elite midfield group, who work both ways and have skills, I don’t care who is in our defence we won’t win anything big.

 

[x_les_x]

IMO we havent progressed one bit since 2019.

We have:
-remained the mantra of flat track bullies; we havent beaten anyone of note. A clueless/nervous Rowell and Anderson Gold Coast, Adelaide (self explanatory) 10 weeks or whatever ago, Freo (equally as bad as adelaide) and a Will Schofield + Eagles defence handed us that game on a platter. The percentage and margins mean nothing when we get smacked as hard as we did
- Failed to blood any newbies with the exception of Georgiades for a single game. Went with Farrell over Bergman when given the opportunity who once again proves to do s**t all on the big stage
- Our "match winners" Gray and Rozee have gone backwards they resemble late stage monfries and wingard respectivly
-Playing s**t the bed at any pressure bonner
- Continue with the plan kick to Charlie or bust
- Playing Wines and Rockcliff
-Admittedly Clurey did cop something early either a knee to the lower back or a corkie early in the game which hindered his performance

The only advances weve made:
-Actually having two tall forwards and playing Marshall consistently which will probably stop this week
-Midfield Butters
-McKenzie: i will stand up for this guy. He is a back flanker NOT a third key tall. Thats Burton or Watts. As always Ken playing players in wrong positions

 

[Power Raid]

Lol that Crows fan is sad

Personally I don't get the mentality, as footy is just a game.

Clearly the crow is letting a tough season, effect his mental health too much.

 

[Butters Made Me Do It]

So has Rozee been kern'd?

He's being Wingarded. He'll start trying to do too much by himself next.

 

[AdamMarrett]

All of these guys have dropped off a cliff in the middle. Not surprising but.

Wines av 14 touches the last 2 games
Rockliff 17 touches last 3 games
SPP 11 touches last 4 games
Rozee 12 touches last 3 games

Lycett 17 hitouts, 0.5 marks last 2 games

We lost that game at selection. Brisbane bringing in Martin with Oscar whatever his name is nullified any advantage in the ruck Lycett had given us in the first 4 games, and it took away what Westhoff gives us when he spells Lycett against most sides second ruckman, was a good coaching move. Then they tagged Hartlett and took him out of the game, nullifying some of our run from the back half, and the midfield besides Boak & Butters was smashed. Ken through everyone into the middle at one point and it made no difference, I thought Robbie should've gone in their earlier in the second quarter but that was about it, the midfield have to own that loss as they exposed out defense who were shocking as well. We blew our chances in the first quarter and left them in the game and as good sides do they made us pay.

Learn the lessons and move onto the Giants next week.

 

[Powerade 08]

We lost that game at selection. Brisbane bringing in Martin with Oscar whatever his name is nullified any advantage in the ruck Lycett had given us in the first 4 games, and it took away what Westhoff gives us when he spells Lycett against most sides second ruckman, was a good coaching move. Then they tagged Hartlett and took him out of the game, nullifying some of our run from the back half, and the midfield besides Boak & Butters was smashed. Ken through everyone into the middle at one point and it made no difference, I thought Robbie should've gone in their earlier in the second quarter but that was about it, the midfield have to own that loss as they exposed out defense who were shocking as well. We blew our chances in the first quarter and left them in the game and as good sides do they made us pay.

Learn the lessons and move onto the Giants next week.

Next week will be the same. Our midfield has probably never won a quarter going up against the GWS midfield.

 

[Interstater]

(Have not read the thread yet)

We clearly had our bags packed last night and the players were thinking more about going home than getting the job done.
It doesn't take much, we were 5% down on our intensity and that was enough.

Now the familiar patterns will take place.
- Local media will smash us
- Our own social media will smash us
- Our players will doubt themselves
- Everyone will talk about how inconsistent we are

Then one of two things will happen
- Either the players will believe it all and be affected by it all and our season is over
or
- The team that played the first four matches will actually have some resilience and determination, brush aside all the external negativity and DO SOMETHING

I'm not lowering my expectations, there has been too much of that, too much expecting us to fail and just needing a trigger to fire off the tsunami of negativity.

I'm not bloody well buying it, I expect us to play at 100% against GWS next week, no bloody excuses and I expect us to win.

If we spiral into the same negativity that has enveloped previous years then pack your bags Ken, its not good enough.
If we succeed then you can stay.

No excuses, its our 150th year, we are a good side that is top of the table after 1 loss.

No excuses.

 

[Power Raid]

I agree with you but it will be a bit easier than tonight.

McInerney 205cms
Hipwood 204cms
McStay 195cms

I look at our list and question who we could bring in to remedy this issue, in the case we play the lions again in 2020.

Sam Hayes - 203cm but I sense he's been groomed as a ruck rather than forward. Is this correct?
Ladham - 202cm
Buzza - 199cm
Westhoff - 199cm
Watts - 196cm
Liernert - 195cm
Grundy 194cm

The solution last night, based on selections, should have been Westhoff drop back. Then and only when the game had been lost to drop Marshall back to give him a taste of how hard he needs to work.

If we could have our selections again playing two rucks (Ladhams or Hayes) and dropping the second ruck to play the Brogan role; or
Picking Watts, Liernert or Grundy to play the defensive roles they are selected for; or
Selecting an extra forward in Buzza and playing one of Buzza, Marshall or Westhoff to play down back

None of the solutions are great but that just highlights our deficiencies in our squad and coaching panel





Any gut feel on whether Sam Hayes will make it at AFL level and in what position?