Autopsy Round 5, 2021: St.Kilda v Richmond *MADDIE'S MATCH* *CARLISLE 150TH*

[St Kilda Death]

If you added one of Dusty or Bont into our team last season 100% chance for the flag

Add paddy Ryder and Gresham to our team that lost the semi and we give it a shake.
Let alone dusty, who would then NOT be on the team that beat us.

How many flags have the tigers won WITHOUT dusty? GOAT.

Add Ryder, Gresham, Marshall, Paton, Geary, Jones, Hannebery to the team that got flogged Thursday. Things start looking better.

 

[Yawkey way]

If you added one of Dusty or Bont into our team last season 100% chance for the flag

I once saw a great coach explain a loss on injuries and when questioned he said in his opinion 3 champions was the difference between the bottom and top clubs.

It was back in the vfl days but he was still probably pretty close. Interestingly very few champions are traded so how important is it to get the draft right.

 

[King_Steele]

Bottom 4 IMO.

 

[AirWinmar]

I once saw a great coach explain a loss on injuries and when questioned he said in his opinion 3 champions was the difference between the bottom and top clubs.

It was back in the vfl days but he was still probably pretty close. Interestingly very few champions are traded so how important is it to get the draft right.

You really have to be very astute at drafting to pick up a generational match winning champion. Supporters bemoan the fact we don't have 1, but the reality is most teams don't in my view. Dusty, Fyfe, Danger maybe Bont are these types of players that can carry the team on their back and turn the tide even when their side isn't doing great. They don't come around too often. Steele tries his hardest tho and does pretty well.

Anyway, I think we're a much better side than what we're showing now and really hope we can turn it around this season.

 

[PostmanBish]

Break a leg

Nominate for the mid-season draft and become our bone-shattering X-Factor ...

 

[St Bongo]

Man I feel sorry for what the membership department would have to be dealing with this year. I reckon they've probably earned a day off!

Just on your last point, be aware the club has no real control over the ticketing and seating. Can only do what the AFL/Stadium/Government allow.
Hopefully back to normal sooner rather than later.

Yep, I accept that and I conceded that point exactly in my email to the club. However what they are in control of is communication to members and the financial arrangements with members. At the moment there are many, including me, paying for things that are not being provided, access to reserved seating and access to the Victory Room pre and post game. I remained a full financial member last season, paying for reserved seats that I knew I would not get to use. And I did so willingly, as I know did many many others, to help the club through a difficult time. However that goodwill is wearing thin. The club should have have been aware that the current ticketing/seating arrangements were going to be in place and made some sort of discount/rebate offer. Instead they actually increased the cost of our memberships. And the current on-field performances are not helping with the growing frustrations.

 

[Saintbloke]

You really have to be very astute at drafting to pick up a generational match winning champion. Supporters bemoan the fact we don't have 1, but the reality is most teams don't in my view. Dusty, Fyfe, Danger maybe Bont are these types of players that can carry the team on their back and turn the tide even when their side isn't doing great. They don't come around too often. Steele tries his hardest tho and does pretty well.

Anyway, I think we're a much better side than what we're showing now and really hope we can turn it around this season.

Maybe, but good sides win games or if they go down, it's with a fight- we're way off the pace. I think some overrate our team- it's got more holes than swiss cheese.

 

[triggering bro]

View attachment 1105455

Need this bloke (club could also get a loan from him as well).

 

[lewdogs]

Maybe, but good sides win games or if they go down, it's with a fight- we're way off the pace. I think some overrate our team- it's got more holes than swiss cheese.

Tigers must be rubbish then, got pumped two weeks ago.

 

[Saintbloke]

Tigers must be rubbish then, got pumped two weeks ago.

And will probably win this season's premiership

 

[stavro#4]

Tigers must be rubbish then, got pumped two weeks ago.

fair difference getting destroyed by Essendon, made to look stupid by Melbourne before we bent over for Richmond whilst they were poor against a Sydney side much better then Essendon and losing a close one at the death to a flag favourite port in Adelaide.

Richmond also haven’t won only 5 quarters of football in 5 games.

 

[Sully111]

So i'm not up to speed. Was Brad Hill racially vilified by Saints fans recently because of his on field performances?

Because if he was, i reckon it's time to pull up stumps on bagging him out and get around him.

He hasn't been playing well. We all agree on that. Saying it 1000 times isn't going to fix it.

How about we show some support for the man.

 

[plugger66]

So i'm not up to speed. Was Brad Hill racially vilified by Saints fans recently because of his on field performances?

Because if he was, i reckon it's time to pull up stumps on bagging him out and get around him.

He hasn't been playing well. We all agree on that. Saying it 1000 times isn't going to fix it.

How about we show some support for the man.

Exactly. He has been bagged mostly since he got to the club probably for good reason but that isn’t working. As lewis said on radio the other day hill is guy who wants to be liked. Maybe supporting him might be the way to go.

 

[gringo2011]

It’s the fact Grimes gets up and completes an effective disposal that leads to a Richmond goal.

In the position hill had him in, it should have been a dead set Holding the ball.

Or even a second effort, he looked like he felt he'd done enough and racked the cue.

 

[lewdogs]

fair difference getting destroyed by Essendon, made to look stupid by Melbourne before we bent over for Richmond whilst they were poor against a Sydney side much better then Essendon and losing a close one at the death to a flag favourite port in Adelaide.

Richmond also haven’t won only 5 quarters of football in 5 games.

I agree Richmond are better than us but the poster said good sides never lie over which just isn't true.

You know that whole quarters won thing could actually be a positive. Still managed to win games whilst very out of form and down for large portions of the game, which is something that good sides actually do. We actually weren't miles off doing that against Melbourne come to think of it.

 

[gringo2011]

Only if we fail to recognise that our plight isn’t down to a few injuries, we haven’t pushed all our chips in yet.

We have some really good pieces but we need to keep building. Essendon lost three players and that looked disastrous but in reality they weren’t taking them anywhere. They look to have nailed it at the draft and the future looks brighter already. That’s the sort of opportunity which presents from time to time, maybe they got lucky rather than by design but clubs are mad if they’re not looking at every opportunity to improve.

I understand the attachment to individual players but it’s all about team success. I’m not pushing anyone in particular out just listening to offers and weighing up what’s available at the trade table and in the draft as all teams should.

I argued last year that Essendon had a better list than us on paper and got s**t canned because of results. We just have to keep bringing in talent. I'm happy to keep Ross and Billings if they are invested but happy to let them go for picks as well if they just want a soft landing and a good pay packet. The Dogs lost their captain and won a GF the next year. Sometimes you have to step back to move forward. Our three best players last year were Steele, Butler and Ryder. Only Steele has been equal to his last season. Also had several go backwards in Coffield, Long, Wilkie, Battle etc.

 

[plugger66]

I argued last year that Essendon had a better list than us on paper and got sh*t canned because of results. We just have to keep bringing in talent. I'm happy to keep Ross and Billings if they are invested but happy to let them go for picks as well if they just want a soft landing and a good pay packet. The Dogs lost their captain and won a GF the next year. Sometimes you have to step back to move forward. Our three best players last year were Steele, Butler and Ryder. Only Steele has been equal to his last season. Also had several go backwards in Coffield, Long, Wilkie, Battle etc.

Yes and fair enough. You were clearly wrong. That wrong they seemed happy to lose players because they knew they were no hope with that list. Why would tge saints want to decide their future after 5 games in a season. The last season of afl we actually won a final. I would hope we aren’t worrying about getting rid of players 5 games into a season. And this one week decision on players is a joke. Billings has been our second or third best player this year. One bad game and he has checked out or let’s trade him. Not one single person would have thought that in the previous 4 weeks.

 

[lewdogs]

Honestly this week has felt like going back in time on this site. The negativity is such a reminder of what made it unbearable only a few years ago. I guess I'd forgotten because last year was so much fun, but we lose a couple of games and it's back to "the club stinks" etc etc.

It actually feels like some of the posters kind of want us to be crap, and at the first sign of it it's just pile on the club, players etc. I just think that's your own personal stuff, fine if you want to be a glass empty person but it brings all of us down when it becomes this whole tirade against St Kilda FC every time there's some adversity.

The club is seriously better run now than I think I can remember. Ok Hill hasn't worked out yet, but what about Jones, Ryder, Howard, Butler in the same trade period? What about making and winning a final last year? What about that amazing comeback against all odds only a week ago?

I'm sorry but it just drags down the forum and makes it pretty much unbearable. I've been a Saints fan through some very dark times, times when there felt like there was no hope. But guess what, there's always hope. Right now we have an amazing crop of young talent. Are there issues with the list? Yes. Are there issues with the performance? Yes. Are we going through a tough period at the moment through injuries and performance? Yes. But Jesus H Christ, is the season over? Sorry but that's a no. If we don't make finals are we screwed?? Huge no.

It's just tiring and I'm sorry but it's the same group of posters that just downride the team and club every time we are struggling and if you ask me it's pathetic.

 

[gringo2011]

Carlisle
hunter
frawley
dunstan
lonie
kent
mckernan
long
Hannebery
Geary
ryder
Roberton
webster
wood
McKenzie
clavarino
joyce
alabakis

Ok that’s without even trying, how many of those will be on our list next year or in two years?.

That leaves 24 players I think, some are pretty average footballers and some are kids who may or may not become regular senior players. I’m not trying to fire people up just asking the question where is our list really at?.

Have a look at the 24 who are left and give them a grade and position in your best 22. Steele is an A grade mid for example, projecting king to be a gun A grade full forward is fine as well. Anyway depending of how you rate them and where you play them that’s where we are plus or minus trades and drafts.

I think of our keepers

Steele A+
Butler A last season C- this season so maybe an evening out to a B.
Marshall B+ possibly A on his day
Gresham B
Billings B+
Clark C+ to B rising
Coffield was B to A last season, D to C this season
Ryder A grade last season maybe elite.
Battle C+ rising.
Wilkie solid B
Paton B
Bytel C rising
Crouch A- possibly B
Higgins C to B
King C to B rising
Jones B+

 

[gringo2011]

You really have to be very astute at drafting to pick up a generational match winning champion. Supporters bemoan the fact we don't have 1, but the reality is most teams don't in my view. Dusty, Fyfe, Danger maybe Bont are these types of players that can carry the team on their back and turn the tide even when their side isn't doing great. They don't come around too often. Steele tries his hardest tho and does pretty well.

Anyway, I think we're a much better side than what we're showing now and really hope we can turn it around this season.

I think what we have is depth of solid players but lack top end. That's why the Petracca pick hurts he's tracking like he'll be a star quality player. I just hope Bytel is our superstar mid. Gresham has the tools but not seemingly the body or attitude to match. The only player we had that looked like he wanted to go and take everyone on was Dmac who probably gave Richmond more goals than us and had about 12 possessions. He was a champion greyhound in the body of a crippled koala. Steele is a beautiful player to watch but he doesn't foam at the mouth with competitiveness like Lenny, BJ or Rooey.

 

[George]

Honestly this week has felt like going back in time on this site. The negativity is such a reminder of what made it unbearable only a few years ago. I guess I'd forgotten because last year was so much fun, but we lose a couple of games and it's back to "the club stinks" etc etc.

It actually feels like some of the posters kind of want us to be crap, and at the first sign of it it's just pile on the club, players etc. I just think that's your own personal stuff, fine if you want to be a glass empty person but it brings all of us down when it becomes this whole tirade against St Kilda FC every time there's some adversity.

The club is seriously better run now than I think I can remember. Ok Hill hasn't worked out yet, but what about Jones, Ryder, Howard, Butler in the same trade period? What about making and winning a final last year? What about that amazing comeback against all odds only a week ago?

I'm sorry but it just drags down the forum and makes it pretty much unbearable. I've been a Saints fan through some very dark times, times when there felt like there was no hope. But guess what, there's always hope. Right now we have an amazing crop of young talent. Are there issues with the list? Yes. Are there issues with the performance? Yes. Are we going through a tough period at the moment through injuries and performance? Yes. But Jesus H Christ, is the season over? Sorry but that's a no. If we don't make finals are we screwed?? Huge no.

It's just tiring and I'm sorry but it's the same group of posters that just downride the team and club every time we are struggling and if you ask me it's pathetic.

Great post, some forget that this isn't their personal shoutbox.

 

[plugger66]

I think what we have is depth of solid players but lack top end. That's why the Petracca pick hurts he's tracking like he'll be a star quality player. I just hope Bytel is our superstar mid. Gresham has the tools but not seemingly the body or attitude to match. The only player we had that looked like he wanted to go and take everyone on was Dmac who probably gave Richmond more goals than us and had about 12 possessions. He was a champion greyhound in the body of a crippled koala. Steele is a beautiful player to watch but he doesn't foam at the mouth with competitiveness like Lenny, BJ or Rooey.

Why attitude with gresh. Never ever known or thought that and both injuries are one off type injuries. Once clear of them he should be fine.

 

[gringo2011]

Why attitude with gresh. Never ever known or thought that and both injuries are one off type injuries. Once clear of them he should be fine.

Rumours are that he does apply himself as much as others. I think if ever decided to give 100% he's got enough X factor to be a special player.

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

Cox the tall winger..?? Yeah nah you're right, that makes complete sense champion.

Your point was a tall skinny young player couldn't handle afl footy. When there are quite a few examples which prove otherwise. Nik cox has also been playing as the back up ruck champo

 

[Xxxx66]

Dear fellow Saint’s supporters
I am 63 years old and I am not going to live to see my 64th birthday*
I'm not quite at death's door but I can see him skulking around in the garden.
But enough of my problems...
I am writing to say I cannot give any more of my time to the club I have loved for such a long time. The games against Essendon and Richmond have broken my spirit and I will now use what time I have left to do other things. Things that are enjoyable.
At least in the 80's when we were really, really bad, I had Trevor Barker to watch taking the Mark of the Day, or Plugger kicking a bag of goals. We got flogged a lot back then but I always felt as if it was the difference in skills which was the reason we lost, not the effort from the players.
I never expected to watch the Saints play finals (my doctor gave me 2 weeks to live in June 2018) again so 2020 was a bonus. Foolishly I went into the 2021 season thinking we might get to a Preliminary Final or maybe even have fluked a Premiership
I do a football podcast with my mate BrainsTrust66 but when he asks what my play of the day was and I say, winning the coin toss, I am struggling to find positives in the way we have played.
I apologise to Jaryn Geary...I put my hand up to say we needed him to be out of the team for us to move forward. He might not be the most skillful of players but you aleays knew he left everything out on the field.
I also want to say sorry to Jack Steele...if you could finish top 3 in the Brownlow with a team which played 2 finals, how many Brownlows might you have won if you played in a descent team which won games regularly?
I will read the autopsy of the Saint's games on Bigfooty to find out what went wrong and maybe we might even play above ourselves and win a game or two.
Thank you for allowing me the time to post this
Go Saints,
Neill
p.s. I have always felt as if I have cursed the club. In 1971 I barracked for two teams, the Saints and the Hawks. My grandfather said I had to pick a team. I chose the team leading at 3/4 time...how dumb is that. In an alternate reality the Saints have not long won 3 premierships in a row and the Hawks continually disappoint. Perhaps me stepping away is enough for the Saints to have a golden run

*All thanks to some doctors who failed to tell me about the cancerous tumour which had attached itself to my appendix until it was too late.
And just so I get kicked whilst I am down, the bastard muscinous cancer has caused my stomach to swell and eventually it will crush my organs and I won't be able to breathe anymore. If I'm really unlucky my bowels will be blocked and my palliative care doctor has told me that if that happens it will be like being hit by an out of control steam train.
I intend to take advantage of voluntary assisted dying before that happens...f**k me, I'm taking the easy option, perhaps I could be a Saint's player after all.

So sorry to hear this. Your post caused me to stop and reflect. After reading 68 pages of how impacted people's lives are based on a result of a footy game, it puts it into perspective when compared with what you and many others are facing everyday.
If the biggest problem in our lives is the result of a footy game, we have much to be grateful for. So thanks for sharing.
Hope you get the opportunity to tick one or two items of the bucket list.