Autopsy Round 5, 2021: St.Kilda v Richmond *MADDIE'S MATCH* *CARLISLE 150TH*

[gringo2011]

This on top of a 40 year record breaking lack of tackles vs Essendon, faaaaaaaark it's ugly. WTF is happening this season? No hunger or desire.

I might be imagining things, but does anyone think it's been a slightly depressing start to the season for our players? I'm talking about off-field events or commitments.
We had a coach snap our gun defender's leg in two. Our number 1 ruckman gets injured, and our number 2 ruckman goes on stress leave. We had a very sombre build up for Danny's match. We visited the sick children in hospital at Easter. Gresh gone for the year. Another sombre build up for Maddie's match. Nice guy Hill struggling with the blowtorch.

I know we do so many wonderful things off the field but if I'm a player going through all that in such a short period of time, none of that really pumps me up to destroy the opposition, I find it all a bit dispiriting to be honest. It's a bit heavy, whenever I've seen our lads off-field this year there's always something sombre involved. I absolutely love what they do, but I wouldn't have much of a fighting spirit around all that. Just something I've noticed and felt.

Someone suggested there were a few got ahead of themselves and those guys haven't backed it up. Long, Butler and Coffield all apparently thought they were stars and dropped their work rate. They may have been ripped into and have taken their foot off the pedal. Last year we had a new coach and lots of energy, it's probably lost some of the gloss and got back to being hard work.

 

[gringo2011]

Nankervis's past 12 months have very good. Calling him a below average ruckman is way off the mark.

He's good enough but he's no Max Gawn. He's not even top 10 IMO. He's a bit like Hickey to me he's solid and can be good in other elements but his tap work is just okay. They never care about clearance work too much and pressure the ball carrier to force a turn over, so he doesn't have to do much except contest.

 

[Rabbit58]

So sorry to hear this. Your post caused me to stop and reflect. After reading 68 pages of how impacted people's lives are based on a result of a footy game, it puts it into perspective when compared with what you and many others are facing everyday.
If the biggest problem in our lives is the result of a footy game, we have much to be grateful for. So thanks for sharing.
Hope you get the opportunity to tick one or two items of the bucket list.

Thank you, every day is a good day...some are better than others
I finally found a publisher who will publish the boy's adventure stories I have written so that's a big tick.
The books won't be available until after I am gone but it will be my legacy which I can leave for our children.
Our son and his partner are expecting their first child (our 6th grandchilld) in 3 months and I desperately want to be here for that. I feel like I owe our son because I encouraged him to barrack for the Saints when he was younger, and as soon as they choose a name for the little fella he will buy a Saint's membership for him.
Oh, and to see what being a dad does for him. My wife and I laughed uproariously at him when we were discussing babies in general and he said, "What do you mean babies don't sleep through the night?"

 

[BrutThough]

He's good enough but he's no Max Gawn. He's not even top 10 IMO. He's a bit like Hickey to me he's solid and can be good in other elements but his tap work is just okay. They never care about clearance work too much and pressure the ball carrier to force a turn over, so he doesn't have to do much except contest.

Of course he's not Gawn. Gawn is arguably the best player in the entire competition right now.

But Nankveris has been really good the past 12 months and played a huge role in their finals campaign last year where they actually turned around how they usually play and became a dominant clearance team for those 4 weeks.

We absolutely sucked, especially in the 2nd half. But Nank is a good ruckman.

 

[The Punter]

Dear fellow Saint’s supporters
I am 63 years old and I am not going to live to see my 64th birthday*
I'm not quite at death's door but I can see him skulking around in the garden.
But enough of my problems...
I am writing to say I cannot give any more of my time to the club I have loved for such a long time. The games against Essendon and Richmond have broken my spirit and I will now use what time I have left to do other things. Things that are enjoyable.
At least in the 80's when we were really, really bad, I had Trevor Barker to watch taking the Mark of the Day, or Plugger kicking a bag of goals. We got flogged a lot back then but I always felt as if it was the difference in skills which was the reason we lost, not the effort from the players.
I never expected to watch the Saints play finals (my doctor gave me 2 weeks to live in June 2018) again so 2020 was a bonus. Foolishly I went into the 2021 season thinking we might get to a Preliminary Final or maybe even have fluked a Premiership
I do a football podcast with my mate BrainsTrust66 but when he asks what my play of the day was and I say, winning the coin toss, I am struggling to find positives in the way we have played.
I apologise to Jaryn Geary...I put my hand up to say we needed him to be out of the team for us to move forward. He might not be the most skillful of players but you aleays knew he left everything out on the field.
I also want to say sorry to Jack Steele...if you could finish top 3 in the Brownlow with a team which played 2 finals, how many Brownlows might you have won if you played in a descent team which won games regularly?
I will read the autopsy of the Saint's games on Bigfooty to find out what went wrong and maybe we might even play above ourselves and win a game or two.
Thank you for allowing me the time to post this
Go Saints,
Neill
p.s. I have always felt as if I have cursed the club. In 1971 I barracked for two teams, the Saints and the Hawks. My grandfather said I had to pick a team. I chose the team leading at 3/4 time...how dumb is that. In an alternate reality the Saints have not long won 3 premierships in a row and the Hawks continually disappoint. Perhaps me stepping away is enough for the Saints to have a golden run

*All thanks to some doctors who failed to tell me about the cancerous tumour which had attached itself to my appendix until it was too late.
And just so I get kicked whilst I am down, the bastard muscinous cancer has caused my stomach to swell and eventually it will crush my organs and I won't be able to breathe anymore. If I'm really unlucky my bowels will be blocked and my palliative care doctor has told me that if that happens it will be like being hit by an out of control steam train.
I intend to take advantage of voluntary assisted dying before that happens...f**k me, I'm taking the easy option, perhaps I could be a Saint's player after all.

Hi Rabbit58 - it was good to do a couple of podcasts with you last year. I wish you nothing but the best.

BTW, my family barracks for St Kilda because of the very same game - Mum picked St Kilda after the 1971 Grand Final, which she attended.

I was born in 1980.

Hawthorn Premiers 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008, 2013, 2014, 2015.

 

[flyingmagic]

Personally would much prefer spending more resources on things that impact performance - coaches, analytics, psych etc.

Our whole problem is that we aren't winning. Even if we had the best communications team that gave perfect personalized responses, it's not going to fix how badly we are playing.

Also if the club needs supporters ringing up threatening to cancel memberships to motivate them then we are in more trouble than I thought. I understand the frustration but not sure there are any quick fixes apart from rolling up our sleaves (and getting Paddy and Marshall back haha).

 

[phantom13]

Personally would much prefer spending more resources on things that impact performance - coaches, analytics, psych etc.

Our whole problem is that we aren't winning. Even if we had the best communications team that gave perfect personalized responses, it's not going to fix how badly we are playing.

Also if the club needs supporters ringing up threatening to cancel memberships to motivate them then we are in more trouble than I thought. I understand the frustration but not sure there are any quick fixes apart from rolling up our sleaves (and getting Paddy and Marshall back haha).

Weve done this to death but an email response to angry members does not cost us any more money or effort than they are already doing.

We have a comms and membership department who get paid whether we win or lose to do exactly what most of us have been discussing.

Its not an either or situation.

 

[phantom13]

Dear fellow Saint’s supporters
I am 63 years old and I am not going to live to see my 64th birthday*
I'm not quite at death's door but I can see him skulking around in the garden.
But enough of my problems...
I am writing to say I cannot give any more of my time to the club I have loved for such a long time. The games against Essendon and Richmond have broken my spirit and I will now use what time I have left to do other things. Things that are enjoyable.
At least in the 80's when we were really, really bad, I had Trevor Barker to watch taking the Mark of the Day, or Plugger kicking a bag of goals. We got flogged a lot back then but I always felt as if it was the difference in skills which was the reason we lost, not the effort from the players.
I never expected to watch the Saints play finals (my doctor gave me 2 weeks to live in June 2018) again so 2020 was a bonus. Foolishly I went into the 2021 season thinking we might get to a Preliminary Final or maybe even have fluked a Premiership
I do a football podcast with my mate BrainsTrust66 but when he asks what my play of the day was and I say, winning the coin toss, I am struggling to find positives in the way we have played.
I apologise to Jaryn Geary...I put my hand up to say we needed him to be out of the team for us to move forward. He might not be the most skillful of players but you aleays knew he left everything out on the field.
I also want to say sorry to Jack Steele...if you could finish top 3 in the Brownlow with a team which played 2 finals, how many Brownlows might you have won if you played in a descent team which won games regularly?
I will read the autopsy of the Saint's games on Bigfooty to find out what went wrong and maybe we might even play above ourselves and win a game or two.
Thank you for allowing me the time to post this
Go Saints,
Neill
p.s. I have always felt as if I have cursed the club. In 1971 I barracked for two teams, the Saints and the Hawks. My grandfather said I had to pick a team. I chose the team leading at 3/4 time...how dumb is that. In an alternate reality the Saints have not long won 3 premierships in a row and the Hawks continually disappoint. Perhaps me stepping away is enough for the Saints to have a golden run

*All thanks to some doctors who failed to tell me about the cancerous tumour which had attached itself to my appendix until it was too late.
And just so I get kicked whilst I am down, the bastard muscinous cancer has caused my stomach to swell and eventually it will crush my organs and I won't be able to breathe anymore. If I'm really unlucky my bowels will be blocked and my palliative care doctor has told me that if that happens it will be like being hit by an out of control steam train.
I intend to take advantage of voluntary assisted dying before that happens...f**k me, I'm taking the easy option, perhaps I could be a Saint's player after all.

Its obviously not the point of this post (and Rabbit, thank you for sharing and i hope your remaining time is filled with love and hapiness mate) BUT.

We have a 30 year member giving up, someone whose kids refuse to follow the saints and now this...

Im not sure i remember a more despondent time as a saints supporter. Weve been worse but we knew we were going to be worse in a re build.

This feels about as hopeless as i can remember.

 

[prophetic1]

This on top of a 40 year record breaking lack of tackles vs Essendon, faaaaaaaark it's ugly. WTF is happening this season? No hunger or desire.

I might be imagining things, but does anyone think it's been a slightly depressing start to the season for our players? I'm talking about off-field events or commitments.
We had a coach snap our gun defender's leg in two. Our number 1 ruckman gets injured, and our number 2 ruckman goes on stress leave. We had a very sombre build up for Danny's match. We visited the sick children in hospital at Easter. Gresh gone for the year. Another sombre build up for Maddie's match. Nice guy Hill struggling with the blowtorch.

I know we do so many wonderful things off the field but if I'm a player going through all that in such a short period of time, none of that really pumps me up to destroy the opposition, I find it all a bit dispiriting to be honest. It's a bit heavy, whenever I've seen our lads off-field this year there's always something sombre involved. I absolutely love what they do, but I wouldn't have much of a fighting spirit around all that. Just something I've noticed and felt.

Interesting perspective.....I doubt really though that it would adversely effect them....although maybe they need a little fun amongst the team......I think paddy's time off definitely has had a dramatic result......his close relationship to Brad Hill flow on...Marshall etc ......yeah a bit of love , a bit of bonding fun.......I always thought Grant Thomas got that pretty right...I guess Ratts hasn't had much chance with his own personal hardships and suffering then in Coaching with the pressure that he is under. Maybe they all need our support, understanding and to lighten up a bit...you might be on to something!

 

[BrutThough]

Interesting perspective.....I doubt really though that it would adversely effect them....although maybe they need a little fun amongst the team......I think paddy's time off definitely has had a dramatic result......his close relationship to Brad Hill flow on...Marshall etc ......yeah a bit of love , a bit of bonding fun.......I always thought Grant Thomas got that pretty right...I guess Ratts hasn't had much chance with his own personal hardships and suffering then in Coaching with the pressure that he is under. Maybe they all need our support, understanding and to lighten up a bit...you might be on to something!

Going back to Perth over the weekend and spending some time with his family should have helped Hill as well.

He wouldn't have got back there since last preseason with all the border closures so I'm sure that time away would have helped clear mind and relieve some of the pressure he was feeling.

 

[Andyy]

In fairness mate you guys have never been close to the endless bat s*it mad, basket case that we have..you've had your moments, and you've tried hard...but Richmond lack the sheer willpower to be as s*hit as St.Kilda has been for as long as we have. Our history is one of abject failure. As supporters we're largely punch drunk, we exist on spiteful vitriolic mixed with a delusional hopefulness that has torn its own eyes out rather than look at the reality of things. We're fumbling in the dark hoping to not bump into things mainly...you say thick and thin, which is all well and good when you have a bunch of silverware. From our perspective we're barely optimistic of survival but dumb enough to persevere...you can't blame a bloke for waking up.

Haha, well 37 years in the wilderness is nothing to be sneezed at. Being born in 1988 the only thing that resembled success to me was the 2001 prelim loss to the Lions - and even then at least I could say they were starting a 3-peat.

Saints played in 3x GF's. Honestly the 2010 side was so damned talented (I think the football community is too small for 18 teams/not enough talent to go around) they could easily have won a flag or two and this conversation wouldn't be happening at all, right? I think if they had a better coach things would have been different. I didn't rate the 2010 Pies team half as much as the Saints team.

 

[phantom13]

Haha, well 37 years in the wilderness is nothing to be sneezed at. Being born in 1988 the only thing that resembled success to me was the 2001 prelim loss to the Lions - and even then at least I could say they were starting a 3-peat.

Saints played in 3x GF's. Honestly the 2010 side was so damned talented (I think the football community is too small for 18 teams/not enough talent to go around) they could easily have won a flag or two and this conversation wouldn't be happening at all, right? I think if they had a better coach things would have been different. I didn't rate the 2010 Pies team half as much as the Saints team.

"but for the toe poke and the bounce of a ball wed have two flags" is about as useful as "if my mum had a dick".

Flags are the measure and weve not had one in most supporters lifetimes weve also had more spoons than any other team in history.

We dont have sustained success or luck, we dont even have a winning history.

 

[The Punter]

Not helpful: shallow efforts at consoling of people who don't know what it feels like by people who know what it feels like.

 

[Andyy]

"but for the toe poke and the bounce of a ball wed have two flags" is about as useful as "if my mum had a dick".

Flags are the measure and weve not had one in most supporters lifetimes weve also had more spoons than any other team in history.

We dont have sustained success or luck, we dont even have a winning history.

Few clubs do in recent memory!

Just wait until the oppo supporters get behind your team. That's how you know you are genuinely trash like Richmond was leading into the 2017 finals series haha.

 

[phantom13]

Few clubs do in recent memory!

Just wait until the oppo supporters get behind your team. That's how you know you are genuinely trash like Richmond was leading into the 2017 finals series haha.

Adelaide 97
Brisbane 01-03
Carlton 95
Collingwood 10
Essendon 2000
Freo nothing
Geelong 11
GWS None
GC None
Hawthorn 15
Kangaroos 99
Melbourne 64
Port 04
Rich 20
Sydney 12
Eagles 18
Dogs 16

Unless youre a Melbourne supporter or under 30 youve seen most clubs win at least one.

I think everyone was on us in 09 and 10. Trust me weve been there. In fact, until the dogs got theirs in 16 id say we were everyones second club cause weve been such a sad club.

 

[Sully111]

Ratts needs to do a better job.

It's that simple for me

 

[StCicatriz]

Adelaide 97
Brisbane 01-03
Carlton 95
Collingwood 10
Essendon 2000
Freo nothing
Geelong 11
GWS None
GC None
Hawthorn 15
Kangaroos 99
Melbourne 64
Port 04
Rich 20
Sydney 12
Eagles 18
Dogs 16

Unless youre a Melbourne supporter or under 30 youve seen most clubs win at least one.

I think everyone was on us in 09 and 10. Trust me weve been there. In fact, until the dogs got theirs in 16 id say we were everyones second club cause weve been such a sad club.

from what I've seen people seem to be rejoicing in our shitness lately. kind of like fans rejoicing in the idea of norf relocating.

 

[StCicatriz]

Haha, well 37 years in the wilderness is nothing to be sneezed at. Being born in 1988 the only thing that resembled success to me was the 2001 prelim loss to the Lions - and even then at least I could say they were starting a 3-peat.

Saints played in 3x GF's. Honestly the 2010 side was so damned talented (I think the football community is too small for 18 teams/not enough talent to go around) they could easily have won a flag or two and this conversation wouldn't be happening at all, right? I think if they had a better coach things would have been different. I didn't rate the 2010 Pies team half as much as the Saints team.

lol wat

 

[jwikked]

Ratts needs to do a better job.

It's that simple for me

Yes, if he can’t get them to put in a little bit of effort he should be sacked immediately.

 

[LiterallyNobody]

Haha, well 37 years in the wilderness is nothing to be sneezed at. Being born in 1988 the only thing that resembled success to me was the 2001 prelim loss to the Lions - and even then at least I could say they were starting a 3-peat.

Saints played in 3x GF's. Honestly the 2010 side was so damned talented (I think the football community is too small for 18 teams/not enough talent to go around) they could easily have won a flag or two and this conversation wouldn't be happening at all, right? I think if they had a better coach things would have been different. I didn't rate the 2010 Pies team half as much as the Saints team.

Lmao pies were CLEARLY the better team that year. Just ten weeks or so prior they slaughtered us at the G.

We got lucky on grand final day and then at the end desperately unlucky. Had we win it it would’ve felt like robbery but who gives a *? It would’ve been a flag.

if we got a weak interstate team on either of those years we would have won - the Melbourne teams were all too good those two years.

 

[phantom13]

from what I've seen people seem to be rejoicing in our shitness lately. kind of like fans rejoicing in the idea of norf relocating.

I know when Melbourne made the prelim in WA a few years back my demon supporting mates got WAY ahead of themselves, just declaring the flag was a sure thing the next year. I wonder if that happened with us a little bit. I know i couldnt stand my insufferable Melbourne mates and when that following year of theirs went south a laughed.

 

[LiterallyNobody]

I know when Melbourne made the prelim in WA a few years back my demon supporting mates got WAY ahead of themselves, just declaring the flag was a sure thing the next year. I wonder if that happened with us a little bit. I know i couldnt stand my insufferable Melbourne mates and when that following year of theirs went south a laughed.

I don’t think anyone here was declaring a flag a sure thing. I wasn’t even confident of top four. Mind you I was basing my entire thought process on our fixture.

 

[phantom13]

I don’t think anyone here was declaring a flag a sure thing. I wasn’t even confident of top four. Mind you I was basing my entire thought process on our fixture.

Yeh nor was I. Just musing.

 

[plugger66]

Yeah, we had soccer training and there are others at our club that follow Saints and Tigers and might have otherwise gone.

Let’s be honest. It’s a terrible crowd. Everyone has reasons for not going but we really should have done better. Having said that crowds are down for one reason and it isn’t soccer training gringo it’s the public have always been able to walk up to nearly every game. Until we can do that again crowds will suffer.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Interesting perspective.....I doubt really though that it would adversely effect them....although maybe they need a little fun amongst the team......I think paddy's time off definitely has had a dramatic result......his close relationship to Brad Hill flow on...Marshall etc ......yeah a bit of love , a bit of bonding fun.......I always thought Grant Thomas got that pretty right...I guess Ratts hasn't had much chance with his own personal hardships and suffering then in Coaching with the pressure that he is under. Maybe they all need our support, understanding and to lighten up a bit...you might be on to something!

In trying times such as this both the players and the fans really miss Richo, a man who created an atmosphere where he was a friend first and a boss second. Probably an entertainer third.