Review Round 5, 2023 - Brisbane Lions vs. North Melbourne

[Warwick]

The bolded bit is sad but true .

If Lyons gets back to what he was two, three and four years ago we have a mid field that might go all the way. He was elite in these years.

I want him back to this level. I want Zorko to be injury free and Rich back to his best.

I’d also like my mid 20s waistline and non-existent mortgage.

 

[dlanod]

If Lyons gets back to what he was two, three and four years ago we have a mid field that might go all the way. He was elite in these years.

Completely agree. If we could drop 2019-2021 Lyons into the team I'm fully on board.

I want him back to this level. I want Zorko to be injury free and Rich back to his best.

Well it looks like you've got one out of three at least. Really impressed with Zorko's work as a complementary option instead of having to put the team on his back (or feeling like he had to).

 

[M Malice]

Love this picture!

That would be before the game I would think?? Alistair would not have been a happy chappy afterwards.

 

[M Malice]

Good discussion re Jarryd Lyons

17

Jarryd Lyons

Age

31

Ht

184cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.5

5star

K

11.8

4star

HB

8.7

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

4.8

5star

D

21.7

5star

K

14.7

5star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

5.1

5star

CL

4.7

5star

D

11.0

3star

K

5.2

2star

HB

5.8

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

CL

1.6

4star

, he was good when he came on and against that opposition it would be the least expected.... going forward I still worry about his pace defensively against the quick play on/overlap handball/transition sides like the Pies, Demons, Cats, Saints. I have the same worry about Daniel Rich

10

Daniel Rich

Age

33

Ht

183cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.7

5star

K

12.6

5star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

3.2

5star

MG

430.3

5star

D

14.9

4star

K

13.1

5star

HB

1.8

1star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.0

2star

MG

384.3

5star

D

16.2

4star

K

10.4

4star

HB

5.8

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

5.2

5star

against the better sides.

We have a relatively easier run of matches now(Giants, Dockers, Blues, Bombers, Suns) so if Jarryd is in the side there is a good chance he will look fine against those sides, the test will come later in the season.

 

[POBT]

When Zorko plays well across half forward, it completely changes the way we play. Guys like Bailey and Rayner can be instinctively brilliant but Zorko brings a midfielder's mentality, ball winning and understanding of system to our forward half play. As one of the former mainstays on ball, he knows what his midfield needs from him - when to provide a short option, when to create an extra number at the contest etc. When fully fit, he remains one of our better players at ground level so we win more of the footy in our forward half. And he remains a very good defensive player.

This is his ideal role as an older player - he gets to use his strengths without spending lots of time getting bashed at stoppages. Having midfield capable players in your forward line has always been a great sign of depth - eg Luke Power

Luke Power

Age

44

Ht

180cm

Wt

79kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.0

5star

K

13.4

5star

HB

9.6

5star

M

3.9

4star

T

3.9

5star

CL

1.9

4star

No current season stats available

D

16.6

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

1.4

2star

T

2.0

4star

, Paul Chapman

Paul Chapman

Age

42

Ht

179cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.7

5star

K

12.8

5star

HB

6.9

4star

M

4.7

4star

T

3.5

5star

G

1.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

6.6

2star

K

4.0

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.2

3star

, Shaun Burgoyne

9

Shaun Burgoyne

Age

41

Ht

186cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.0

4star

K

9.9

4star

HB

8.1

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

3.8

5star

MG

162.7

3star

D

10.0

3star

K

5.6

2star

HB

4.4

3star

M

1.7

2star

T

2.6

4star

MG

162.7

3star

D

6.2

2star

K

3.2

2star

HB

3.0

3star

M

1.2

2star

T

1.6

4star

.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Completely agree. If we could drop 2019-2021 Lyons into the team I'm fully on board.

This is where the groupthink and myth making starts. Lyons played 22 games in 2022 while carrying an injury and being managed during finals. In 2022 he finished second in our team for clearances and while handballs, marks, goals, tackles were slightly down, he was playing under duress and played two less games than 2019 and 2021. Lyons is coming back from injury, has been flying in the reserves, named as a sub yesterday, but according to some he is gone and has no part to play in our seniors. Completely baffling and for some, hypocritical, given their responses when other players are criticised. I am going to be more loyal than that. #IStandByLyons

PS - I edited this post to reflect the excellent point made by briztoon that 2020 had shorter quarters because of COVID

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

I’d also like my mid 20s waistline and non-existent mortgage.

Hair for me and my 240Z

 

[3KZ is Football]

Hair for me and my 240Z

Like some players it seems … hair today, gone tomorrow.

 

[Nathan Barley]

This is where the groupthink and myth making starts. Lyons played 22 games in 2022 while carrying an injury and being managed during finals. In 2022 he finished second in our team for clearances and had more kicks, handballs, marks, goals, tackles and clearances than 2020, when he was supposedly a key part of our team. Lyons is coming back from injury, has been flying in the reserves, named as a sub yesterday, but according to some he is gone and has no part to play in our seniors. Completely baffling and for some, hypocritical, given their responses when other players are criticised. I am going to be more loyal than that. #IStandByLyons

Who are you dropping for him?

 

[Hollow Knight]

Since we’ve somehow found a Delorean with a flux capacitor, can we slot in 2009 Josh Drummond

Josh Drummond

Age

41

Ht

189cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.0

4star

K

12.1

4star

HB

4.9

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

1.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

18.0

5star

K

13.4

5star

HB

4.6

4star

M

7.0

5star

T

1.2

3star

to take our kick ins.

 

[M Malice]

 

[Warwick]

This is where the groupthink and myth making starts. Lyons played 22 games in 2022 while carrying an injury and being managed during finals. In 2022 he finished second in our team for clearances and had more kicks, handballs, marks, goals, tackles and clearances than 2020, when he was supposedly a key part of our team. Lyons is coming back from injury, has been flying in the reserves, named as a sub yesterday, but according to some he is gone and has no part to play in our seniors. Completely baffling and for some, hypocritical, given their responses when other players are criticised. I am going to be more loyal than that. #IStandByLyons

There are 24 weeks of football this year. He will play games - as he should. So should Ah Chee, Robertson, Prior, Tunstill, Lohmann, Mathieson, Answerth, Cockatoo.

I believe Fagan will rotate his squad a lot more this year in comparison to previous years.

It doesn’t mean they are all in the best 22.

 

[BRAB]

I was intending to pop in and offer the following observations, based on not seeing the game, hearing 15 minutes of the last quarter and looking at the stats.

Is this how you’ve watched lions games all year because it actually explains a lot

 

[mpal6]

Good discussion re Jarryd Lyons, he was good when he came on and against that opposition it would be the least expected.... going forward I still worry about his pace defensively against the quick play on/overlap handball/transition sides like the Pies, Demons, Cats, Saints. I have the same worry about Daniel Rich against the better sides.

We have a relatively easier run of matches now(Giants, Dockers, Blues, Bombers, Suns) so if Jarryd is in the side there is a good chance he will look fine against those sides, the test will come later in the season.

He'll go out now to get a full VFL game and one of Prior/Dev/Answerth will slot in as sub.

We could even play Fort as sub now (as part of next week's rotation) since he had a full game, as well as if we want to bring Gunston back in.

 

[LongLion]

Nice win from the fellas so I feel bad about nitpicking, but boy I can't wait for Dizzy to be back. Joyce is an absolute liability with ball in hand, Jack Payne not much better. Against better teams it will burn us. Nice to see Hugh building a little bit today and boy I loved McCarthy's game.

Well don't then. Nothing wrong with Paynes disposal overall. Happy also with Joyce's game.

 

[martinson]

Interesting that Hipwood made a big point of the 'selflessness trademark' that sounded like it could've come straight out of Fagan's mouth.

He also called Joe 'Joey' . So it seems things are where they always should have been.

We have a settled 22 and proven AFL level players in the wings in Lyons, Ah Chee, Gardiner and Prior . They'll get their opportunity as the season unfolds and I don't see ant great urgency right now.

 

[martinson]

As far as Fort and Gunston go Fort is a better option on what we've seen this year but no doubt Gunston will be back if fit.

I really like the way the 3 big guys worked in the forward line yesterday with the option of Fort going into the ruck when Oscar gets a bit tired and having Daniher deep late in the game . Fort is better than people think, makes smart decisions when he gets hold of it ,except for his set shots yesterday. But he was taking contested marks when the game was hot.

Keen to see what this set up could do against better opposition.

 

[LongLion]

I thought Lyons went OK. Was able to hold his man and create space for Neale at centre bounces. Same at stoppages. Didn't really notice his run, he did find himself in space a few times looking to receive, more fwd than back tho. No idea of his stats. Played inside mid only, so was allowed to play to his strength. Not sure he offers more than Dev if Dev's given the same inside role instead of a wing /mid role he usually gets as sub. Others impressions may be different, there was so much going on that I wasn't completely focused on him.

I think Lyons ability to clear the centre square with accurate kicks & handballs is better than Dev's. Also he is a centre square planner/coach that goes unheralded.

 

[Leuy LongerCombo]

Just about finished watching the game now. First time I've seen Sheezal.

Was this just an uncharacteristic game from Sheezal? Solid talent. Got a fair bit of ball sure, but gets a lot of kick ins & from what I saw was a pretty big turnover merchant. Maybe today was a down day. I guess we all have them.

North seem really invested in pumping him up. Would be some great PR for them if he wins the Rising Star over the preseason superstar favorite Ashcroft, makes moving on JHF an even further distance memory I suppose.

I’ve seen bits and pieces from a few of their games, generally speaking I think his disposal/ decision making is better than what he displayed yesterday. As everyone would be well aware, he’s playing the Daicos style role, but just doesn't have those same elite traits.

As we’ve shown the past two weeks, if you can break the play down, and hold structure forward leads to so many easy out the back goals. Not his fault by any means, but if your team is playing that type of roulette, with him being the clear recipient of playing that style, he needs to have a huge impact, but I’d view his impact as very minimal yesterday.

I’m interested to see how the rising star unfolds during the year. If a few other teams get hold of North in the same style we just did, will any scrutiny come towards their style and his role (Im doubtful about scrutiny towards him)

Beside stat padding, boosting his confidence and trying to gift him the Rising Star, I don’t see a lot of long term benefit in his current role. The kid was extremely gifted as a forward, and long term surely that mid/forward will be his role IMO. I couldn’t imagine him returning to this role later in his career if he develops as expected/hoped. North fan will be hoping for a Toby Greene, Dusty, De-Goey type and can’t see any of those playing his current role.

 

[M Malice]

As far as Fort and Gunston go Fort is a better option on what we've seen this year but no doubt Gunston will be back if fit.

I really like the way the 3 big guys worked in the forward line yesterday with the option of Fort going into the ruck when Oscar gets a bit tired and having Daniher deep late in the game . Fort is better than people think, makes smart decisions when he gets hold of it ,except for his set shots yesterday. But he was taking contested marks when the game was hot.

Keen to see what this set up could do against better opposition.

If Fort stays in (I do like him in the side) would we look at the option of playing Jack Gunston as the 3rd tall defender instead of Joyce/Gardiner? IMO when he played back at the Hawks he looked pretty good.

 

[LongLion]

This is where the groupthink and myth making starts. Lyons played 22 games in 2022 while carrying an injury and being managed during finals. In 2022 he finished second in our team for clearances and had more kicks, handballs, marks, goals, tackles and clearances than 2020, when he was supposedly a key part of our team. Lyons is coming back from injury, has been flying in the reserves, named as a sub yesterday, but according to some he is gone and has no part to play in our seniors. Completely baffling and for some, hypocritical, given their responses when other players are criticised. I am going to be more loyal than that. #IStandByLyons

I'm really struggling with saying this 3KZ. I agree with you.

 

[dlanod]

This is where the groupthink and myth making starts. Lyons played 22 games in 2022 while carrying an injury and being managed during finals. In 2022 he finished second in our team for clearances and had more kicks, handballs, marks, goals, tackles and clearances than 2020, when he was supposedly a key part of our team.

I'll happily admit I thought Lyons was flagging/having less of an impact early on last year and even got "shouted down" (ha, just kidding, I understand the concept of a discussion forum unlike many) until all of a sudden about a month later public opinion flipped. But then I was watching games and judging off his impact as a whole, a bit like Beams in his last year with us - in both cases the raw numbers were fine but the weaknesses in their game were apparent. The question becomes whether that was permanent (like Beams) or not.

Lyons is coming back from injury, has been flying in the reserves, named as a sub yesterday, but according to some he is gone and has no part to play in our seniors.

Good in the reserves in the last few games but started the year with almost a level of inactivity to begin with. Still good to see reserves form rewarded.

Completely baffling and for some, hypocritical, given their responses when other players are criticised. I am going to be more loyal than that. #IStandByLyons

I find your calls of hypocrisy laughable here given you will whip a whipping boy in every thread you can unprovoked yet somehow standing by Lyons excuses that for you but not anyone disagreeing with you.

 

[mpal6]

It’s heart in throat every time Joyce got the ball as while he is okay general defender very poo disposal. Not sure why Harris was handing off to him as Harris is better kick

Nah disagree. Joyce has shown he can kick low sharp passes. It was in the 2nd or 3rd game where he kicked a flat one from D50 hit a player on chest in the middle. Harris either kicks long or short loopy ones. I haven't seen Andrews go for sharp or stab passes, he knows his limitations.

I'd argue Harris form has improved greatly as he's playing better as interceptor in Joyce and Payne's support. He doesn't have to mark a tall forward that closely anymore. Payne and Joyce can take one each.

 

[martinson]

If Fort stays in (I do like him in the side) would we look at the option of playing Jack Gunston as the 3rd tall defender instead of Joyce/Gardiner? IMO when he played back at the Hawks he looked pretty good.

Interesting point Malice and they'd be looking at it but I'm not sure that the Gunston who played in the backline for the Hawks has the same run in his legs as the one we have now.

 

[mpal6]

If Fort stays in (I do like him in the side) would we look at the option of playing Jack Gunston as the 3rd tall defender instead of Joyce/Gardiner? IMO when he played back at the Hawks he looked pretty good.

I think Gunston can't do what Joyce and Payne can cover in their roles. He's a bit short and leaner build as well, so I doubt he can play close checking defender on a gorilla forward. Playing Gunston in back line means we have to change Andrews to lockdown role and let Gunston be that intercepting third defender potentially.

It's worth exploring as a fall back option but it'll disrupt what we've found as a working combination now. Andrews roaming free seems to be the best option so far.