Opinion Round 5 Changes vs. Melbourne

[E Shed]

Good post, and at the end of a long season if we are top four Lyon can make changes that are more attacking. In the past we
have had a decent team with about 25 players able to do their role, and cover some injuries.
2015 and in my opinion this is the best list we have ever had for quality of depth, the only concern I have is the coach being too
conservative, defensive, and he has history on his side.
I hope the kids do get to wear the sub vest this year, and the sub role is perfect to see what they can bring to the table.

I've been thinking about this too.
Its great that we are 4 and zip with guys like DeBoer playing a role. He's a senior player and he deserves a crack because he worked his ass off over the summer but if we are going to take the Hawks or Sydney and lift the cup we need to lift the level of the bottom few players in the side.
Individually I don't mind Suban, Deboer and C Pearce but not all 3 in the side. Of the 3 I think Clancee offers most and I'd keep him.

To me we have a few players capable of being better than those currently playing, Crozier, Blakely and Weller. I don't count those like Sheridan, Grey, A Pearce who I think will make fine AFL players but who simply replace those in the side currently doing their role (respectively Duff, Spurr, Jonno).

The 3 mentioned first on the other hand can replace the Deboer or Suban types and lift the overall level of the side and of those I rate Weller the highest. He has the class, run and immaculate disposal to make a big difference and he's hard. He's the one that I would most like to blood soon.
Blakely can understudy for Mundy and if Crozier doesn't go back to Melbourne he will get opportunity but Weller I would be looking to get in in the second half of the year with a view to September.

 

[Allikat]

Just watched Lyon's midweek press conference and was amused by his reaction to the question about Fyfe and Vince. Was he laughing because as he indicated, Nat doesn't need to be told what to do in that situation or was he laughing because he thought the idea of Nat being beaten by Vince was just utterly ridiculous? Whenever I see Fremantle players or Lyon talk about anything to do with Fyfe they all seem to have a knowing smile on their face. Is it possible that he's not even playing to his full potential yet?

Fyfe's publicly stated he has areas to improve. Don't think the kid thinks he has a ceiling

 

[Frank J Moose]

Preferably not in a public area. Hoping he never reaches 21 at a home game.

The problems start when he brings out the 1 first before moving onto the other 20.

 

[Harry Reems]

AFL advises Chris Dawes has withdrawn from Melb side to play Fremantle tmrw. Cam Pedersen into 22.

 

[Agenfrida]

For the classier, pacier attacking guys like Crozier and Sheridan, I think it is a matter of them needing another year or two (especially an uninterrupted pre-season) to add muscle and build their tanks. If they stay at Freo beyond this year, they are tracking to dislodge players in their mid/late 20s like Duffield and Suban mid way through their next contract. At the moment, they are ever so slightly physically underprepared to be top 22 in a premiership contending side.

Hopefully Freo will be well established as a repeat top 4 finishing premiership contender and provide a reason for these players to stay at the club and build sustained success, similar to the Geelong/Hawthorn/Sydney model of recent years.

I don't think it's about their physical stature or their endurance. Tommy Sheridan in particular has fantastic endurance. Both are in their fourth year and have put on a fair bit of weight since joining the club. While they're no Tony Lockett (there is only one after all) they're not skinny kids anymore either. If they stay they'll become regulars over the next year or two pushing out the guys you mentioned, but as of right now those guys might be slightly better than them in their current roles. In saying that, If Sherro didn't do his calf he'd probably still be in the team.

 

[Steinfreo]

I've been thinking about this too.
Its great that we are 4 and zip with guys like DeBoer playing a role. He's a senior player and he deserves a crack because he worked his ass off over the summer but if we are going to take the Hawks or Sydney and lift the cup we need to lift the level of the bottom few players in the side.
Individually I don't mind Suban, Deboer and C Pearce but not all 3 in the side. Of the 3 I think Clancee offers most and I'd keep him.

To me we have a few players capable of being better than those currently playing, Crozier, Blakely and Weller. I don't count those like Sheridan, Grey, A Pearce who I think will make fine AFL players but who simply replace those in the side currently doing their role (respectively Duff, Spurr, Jonno).

The 3 mentioned first on the other hand can replace the Deboer or Suban types and lift the overall level of the side and of those I rate Weller the highest. He has the class, run and immaculate disposal to make a big difference and he's hard. He's the one that I would most like to blood soon.
Blakely can understudy for Mundy and if Crozier doesn't go back to Melbourne he will get opportunity but Weller I would be looking to get in in the second half of the year with a view to September.

Personally after watching and listening to the Peel games. Two you mentioned have been solid and maybe a touch inconsistent (excluding Croz). Non-Freo Peel players have been in their best a fair bit. For me I think Max Duffy could be added to the list of potential starters ahead of our first year players like Blakely and Weller. Personally I think Duffy and Croz are the only two worth considering at this stage.

 

[Spoken4]

I've been thinking about this too.
Its great that we are 4 and zip with guys like DeBoer playing a role. He's a senior player and he deserves a crack because he worked his ass off over the summer but if we are going to take the Hawks or Sydney and lift the cup we need to lift the level of the bottom few players in the side.
Individually I don't mind Suban, Deboer and C Pearce but not all 3 in the side. Of the 3 I think Clancee offers most and I'd keep him.

To me we have a few players capable of being better than those currently playing, Crozier, Blakely and Weller. I don't count those like Sheridan, Grey, A Pearce who I think will make fine AFL players but who simply replace those in the side currently doing their role (respectively Duff, Spurr, Jonno).

The 3 mentioned first on the other hand can replace the Deboer or Suban types and lift the overall level of the side and of those I rate Weller the highest. He has the class, run and immaculate disposal to make a big difference and he's hard. He's the one that I would most like to blood soon.
Blakely can understudy for Mundy and if Crozier doesn't go back to Melbourne he will get opportunity but Weller I would be looking to get in in the second half of the year with a view to September.

While you are probably right with Blakely and Weller, the facts are that they are unproven at AFL level. Croz is not. Still like to see Blakely (particularly) in the team soon as we should be fast tracking his development, with Weller close behind. This is what Hawthorn does so well while still winning games.

 

[Taylor]

Geelong is a bit further down that path of bringing in younger players and it looked really good until the senior players left and now it's a shambles, Hawthorn haven't lost their senior players yet but given their two losses have been when Mitchell didn't turn up it tends to look like they could go the same way.

 

[leungtl]

AFL advises Chris Dawes has withdrawn from Melb side to play Fremantle tmrw. Cam Pedersen into 22.

Good news for Johnno, we can afford to drop a spare in front of Hogan all day then!

 

[Steinfreo]

Good news for Johnno, we can afford to drop a spare in front of Hogan all day then!

Yeah I think Hogan is in for a tough day.

Despite what Victorians say MacPharlin is a step up from Rance.

Freo's defensive setup is more than one step up from Richmond's.

 

[leungtl]

Interesting that they've also only gone in with one ruck (Jamar) against Sandi and Clarke...

 

[Frank J Moose]

Interesting that they've also only gone in with one ruck (Jamar) against Sandi and Clarke...

Dawes was the obvious support. Pedersen has played the tall forward / pinch ruck before so hopefully Clarke can take advantage . The more interesting selection is the addition of the pure tagger in McKenzie. I suspect he will go to Hill. Very defensive from Roos.

 

[Apenesslike]

Yeah I think Hogan is in for a tough day.

Despite what Victorians say MacPharlin is a step up from Rance.

Freo's defensive setup is more than one step up from Richmond's.

Hogan could be excused for having an indifferent day. As a Freo supporter Macca would be somewhat of an idol, like Pav, he may get a little overawed.

If he kicks a goal the boys should congratulate him and tell him how much they're looking forward to him kicking goals for Freo.

 

[youmewe]

Funny how every year we have this discussion whether the defensive pressure guys (Deboer, Suban) are worth their spot over the classier and imo better guys like Crozier, Sheridan and now Mzungu, even this year when we are playing pretty well. Understand why Lyon's done it, players performing their role, team winning etc etc but you just think that by the end of the year the classier guys will surely be in the team so why can't they find a place now.

But as long as Deboer and Suban can contribute and we get the wins you can't have a problem with it, just hoping we can give some of the younger guys a taste as if we back them in I reckon they'll keep their spot and make us better in the process.

Yes we're 4-0 and everything is hunky dory, so no room at the inn for a guy like Mzungu.

Bearing in mind the narrow winning margins against Port and Sydney (and the fact those games were played at home) if we were 2-2, would he be playing this week?

 

[Noobrifle]

The Mzungu situation does appear strange. 4-0 or not, he is a level above De Boer and Suban, plus can be a genuine match winner and play at both ends of the ground. Ross's lack of enthusiasm in interviews towards him (as mentioned by E Shed) is probably the strangest part - is there something going on behind the scenes we're missing?

Crozier is another potential match winner, his skills, marking and goal kicking are well above De Boer and Suban. I can't blame him if he wants to leave at the end of the year, as he'd be a starting player in most other teams. I get the sense both De Boer and Suban have reached their ceiling, they've played over 100 games now and are in their mid 20s. At what point is playing them inhibiting the development of classier, younger players?

We probably missed a trick in trading out 1-2 depth midfielders at the end of last year. Trade out a Suban, Pearce, De Boer (or even Mzungu) and pick up a depth tall and our list would look in much better shape.

 

[Apenesslike]

The Mzungu situation does appear strange. 4-0 or not, he is a level above De Boer and Suban, plus can be a genuine match winner and play at both ends of the ground. Ross's lack of enthusiasm in interviews towards him (as mentioned by E Shed) is probably the strangest part - is there something going on behind the scenes we're missing?

Crozier is another potential match winner, his skills, marking and goal kicking are well above De Boer and Suban. I can't blame him if he wants to leave at the end of the year, as he'd be a starting player in most other teams. I get the sense both De Boer and Suban have reached their ceiling, they've played over 100 games now and are in their mid 20s. At what point is playing them inhibiting the development of classier, younger players?

We probably missed a trick in trading out 1-2 depth midfielders at the end of last year. Trade out a Suban, Pearce, De Boer (or even Mzungu) and pick up a depth tall and our list would look in much better shape.

Don't generally get high value for depth players at the trade table unless you have a cup in the cabinet.

The key is getting the depth to surpass the established and trade out the regulars that are being overtaken. That said, I may be greedy but I'm happy to have our depth, even without another depth tall.

 

[Taylor]

Isn't the whole point of depth is that the players unlucky to miss out are arguably good enough to replace those in the side?

If the sum total of our depth is;
Best 22
...
...
...
Just drafted rookies

We are in deep, deep trouble.

Looking at the positives, Mzungu is a true utility and any injury from half forward to half back (10 players covered) can be covered with marginal drop in output. He also isn't going anywhere else, as good as he is it isn't star level and the wrong side of 28.

It's Crozier, Sheridan that will hurt a bit.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

Isn't the whole point of depth is that the players unlucky to miss out are arguably good enough to replace those in the side?

If the sum total of our depth is;
Best 22
...
...
...
Just drafted rookies

We are in deep, deep trouble.

Looking at the positives, Mzungu is a true utility and any injury from half forward to half back (10 players covered) can be covered with marginal drop in output. He also isn't going anywhere else, as good as he is it isn't star level and the wrong side of 28.

It's Crozier, Sheridan that will hurt a bit.

With the Sylvia roll over fund Freo have inherited they could offer a bit more of an incentive to stay west. No point in not using it.

 

[Freo Dr]

I just have a feeling there will be a late change. Mayne for example. Freo can afford to make a late change.

I am thinking this as well. If Crozier stayed in perth then Mzungu I think is the cover for mayne if he doesn't come up from his corky. The fact that Hannath went across is another interesting one. Even my 9 and 11 year old kids cannot understand how the Gu was missing out although I do not agree that Clancee should be under the pump - has not done a thing wrong Clancee and I think is a significant upgrade on Crowls with his hardness and kicking.

Tough calls all round, likely some of the players on the fringes have to wait for minor injuries or home games against teams like St Kilda, Suns, Lions, Carlton etc. Melbourne away is a harder prospect and experience at the G is important.

 

[ydraw]

I get the sense both De Boer and Suban have reached their ceiling, they've played over 100 games now and are in their mid 20s. At what point is playing them inhibiting the development of classier, younger players?

That point was reached about 2 years ago IMO.

 

[eastfreo75]

Yeah I think Hogan is in for a tough day.

Despite what Victorians say MacPharlin is a step up from Rance.

Freo's defensive setup is more than one step up from Richmond's.

Hall and Mooney on 360, rated McPharlin the best tall back from their experience. They mention Hogan eating up Rance but then said that McPharlin will be tougher.

 

[Clems Knee]

The Mzungu situation does appear strange. 4-0 or not, he is a level above De Boer and Suban, plus can be a genuine match winner and play at both ends of the ground. Ross's lack of enthusiasm in interviews towards him (as mentioned by E Shed) is probably the strangest part - is there something going on behind the scenes we're missing?

Crozier is another potential match winner, his skills, marking and goal kicking are well above De Boer and Suban. I can't blame him if he wants to leave at the end of the year, as he'd be a starting player in most other teams. I get the sense both De Boer and Suban have reached their ceiling, they've played over 100 games now and are in their mid 20s. At what point is playing them inhibiting the development of classier, younger players?

We probably missed a trick in trading out 1-2 depth midfielders at the end of last year. Trade out a Suban, Pearce, De Boer (or even Mzungu) and pick up a depth tall and our list would look in much better shape.

The incumbent players are doing a very good job. It's as simple as that. There is no behind the scenes story you are missing. What you are missing is the ability to see what is in front of your nose.

You might also think that Mzungu is a class above De Boer and Suban. But they have different strengths. The difference is not that great. And most importantly, he will get his chance down the track.

To drop players who are doing a very good job for another player, who isn't an A grade and hasn't performed well enough this season, isn't a good idea. Why send the wrong message to the playing group?

And trading our midfielders away, when we are only just getting some depth in that area? Who for? McCarthy. Hogan? Lol

 

[Grandstan]

Crozier is another potential match winner, his skills, marking and goal kicking are well above De Boer and Suban. I can't blame him if he wants to leave at the end of the year, as he'd be a starting player in most other teams. I get the sense both De Boer and Suban have reached their ceiling, they've played over 100 games now and are in their mid 20s. At what point is playing them inhibiting the development of classier, younger players?

Crozier the match winner? One day, but a bit soon for that.
Surely nobody is surprised that it's hard to break into an undefeated side when there aren't injuries.

 

[gungho]

Really interesting leaving Mzungu out of the side.
I reckon he is better than at least 3 players (suban, debeor, clancee) and might even have Mainey covered. So, what the hell is going on?

 

[Clems Knee]

Really interesting leaving Mzungu out of the side.
I reckon he is better than at least 3 players (suban, debeor, clancee) and might even have Mainey covered. So, what the hell is going on?

You are wrong.