Autopsy Round 5 vs Essendon

Status
Not open for further replies.

rm3504

Senior List
Joined
May 13, 2011
Posts
243
Likes
192
Location
Perth
AFL Club
North Melbourne
A year that was full of promise and finals aspirations has been transformed into yet another survival season. Just about everything that had to go right, went horribly wrong. There is no individual blame, it is a collective system that isn't working (as others have said repeatedly).

Hard to see any light unfortunately giantroo
Not one kid doing anything in the magoos.
We must have the worst young talent in comp
Bring in hrovat and lmac this week, brilliant
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Hearts to hearts

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 16, 2001
Posts
18,979
Likes
27,398
Location
Melbourne VIC
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Wales, Eastwood, West Ham
Not one kid doing anything in the magoos.
We must have the worst young talent in comp
Bring in hrovat and lmac this week, brilliant
May have been a crap game all round this week but Larkey can’t have been doing much more over a sustained period.
 
Joined
Dec 9, 2006
Posts
37,083
Likes
61,685
Location
#rentfree in Cats and Magpie supporters heads.
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Aston Villa, Traralgon Tyers United
Those ****ing COWARDS hid behind a kid!
Not trolling here Snake, you have been bang on in this thread. Serious question, how much influence do past players like McKernan have in the club? Does he have the ability to shake things up?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Snake_Baker

L'enfant terrible
Joined
Apr 24, 2013
Posts
41,023
Likes
73,652
Location
inside your head
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
The Unicornia Reactants
Not trolling here Snake, you have been bang on in this thread. Serious question, how much influence do past players like McKernan have in the club?
None, but none of that matters because the smell of blood is in the air and when WE mobilise the world changes.

Does he have the ability to shake things up?
Absolutely. Universally respected by the members, and when all the ******** is said and done, we hold the whip hand, and the membership is stirring from its slumber.
 
Joined
Dec 9, 2006
Posts
37,083
Likes
61,685
Location
#rentfree in Cats and Magpie supporters heads.
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Aston Villa, Traralgon Tyers United
None, but none of that matters because the smell of blood is in the air and when WE mobilise the world changes.



Absolutely. Universally respected by the members, and when all the ******** is said and done, we hold the whip hand, and the membership is stirring from its slumber.
I didn’t realize Archer had stepped off the board. Maybe he needs to get on.
I look at the Pies and Tigers and how we were able to clear out the coachs etc around Hardwick and Buckley and to their credit re-invigorate and re-energise the club. I don’t think Scott could do that. I don’t think it’s in his nature to eat some humble pie and re-evaluate.
Your list shouldn’t be where it is. My take, bring in Sam Mitchell as your next coach. I think he could do some good things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Go_Roos!

Team Captain
Joined
May 2, 2017
Posts
565
Likes
606
AFL Club
North Melbourne
I didn’t realize Archer had stepped off the board. Maybe he needs to get on.
I look at the Pies and Tigers and how we were able to clear out the coachs etc around Hardwick and Buckley and to their credit re-invigorate and re-energise the club. I don’t think Scott could do that. I don’t think it’s in his nature to eat some humble pie and re-evaluate.
Your list shouldn’t be where it is. My take, bring in Sam Mitchell as your next coach. I think he could do some good things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Guess why Archer left the board? a) he was happy with the way the club is run & heading b) he wasn't happy with the way the club was run & heading.
 

Flawed Genius

NM Queensland Recruitment Specialist
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Posts
34,664
Likes
44,031
Location
Hate Hut
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Thread starter Moderator #560
Yet another, even more blatant example of it. They realised they had a choice between 'move to the designated positioning' or 'contest the contest and pressure the ball carrier'. They couldn't do both at the same time so they chose the former.

It's 100% coaching.
It's death by adherence to systems

There is no instinct. The plan says go here when this happens and if it doesn't happen, then let mass panic reign and the chips fall where they may

There is no thought, no initiative, no improvisation. This is what Higgins Cunnington and Anderson were told to do with regards to this set-up at centre bounces and they carry out their plan with aplomb because that's what the coaches and the set up says to do. Unfortunately when Goldstein is beaten and Essendon improvise, we don't revert to playing the simplest defensive structure of all - man on man - because we have our plan and our plan says to do this and improvisation be damned

You are correct in saying it's 100% coaching but it is more than that, it's rigidity and stubbornness and a complete lack of independent thought from players that should know better

We are the George Orwell Allstars
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

shinboner spiggs

Premiership Player
Joined
Aug 19, 2012
Posts
4,037
Likes
4,218
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Jazz, West Indies

Does anybody want to take a guess at what Cunnington, Higgins and Anderson are doing here?
It gets worse every time you watch.

Jed and cunners clearly are still working out playing together but the cake is Higgins accountability on Shiel.
 
Joined
Dec 9, 2006
Posts
37,083
Likes
61,685
Location
#rentfree in Cats and Magpie supporters heads.
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Aston Villa, Traralgon Tyers United
Guess why Archer left the board? a) he was happy with the way the club is run & heading b) he wasn't happy with the way the club was run & heading.
I’ll roll with b. I’ll leave you guys alone now. I’m sure we’ll talk soon enough on the boards. Good luck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

ferball

Premium Platinum
Joined
Jul 24, 2015
Posts
10,080
Likes
18,482
AFL Club
North Melbourne
It gets worse every time you watch.

Jed and cunners clearly are still working out playing together but the cake is Higgins accountability on Shiel.
The reality is if Todd had put his body on the line and hit the right spot for that bounce Jed and Cunners and even Higgo would have been in the right spot to do what Essendon did.

That's not planning over riding instinct. That's reading the play and reacting while backing your ruckman to beat the spud on the other side. To me if Goldy had made more effort or put his body on the line instead of trying to avoid contact then it would have been a different story. Maybe he's spooked by the softness of the new ruck rules. That's the only excuse I can possibly give him (and it isn't good enough anyway - betterto give away a free than allow that bollocks imo.)

At first i was with Mixed Results about this cos it does look really bad but after looking a couple of times i'm back with the players for this. If Goldy had got anything on that ball then Cunners was in the right position and he had every reason to expect Goldy would get something on it. That Bellchambers was able to get an uncontested tap to his second option in Heppel while Goldy drifted past the back of ruck contest like someone saving his aging body for another five years of footy is why that went pear shaped.

Maj would have made that tap, even Campbell would have made a contest and if it'd been the quarter before Preuss would have pulverised Bellchambers. That one is entirely on Goldy.
 

hcd199

Club Legend
Joined
Apr 29, 2009
Posts
2,019
Likes
1,116
Location
Hobart
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Waterford GAA, Glenorchy, Hob (BBL)
Appreciate the thorough analyses of our centre bounce set-ups upthread. Like many here, my will to watch dwindled as the game dragged on, but all this tallies with what I noticed during the game, which was that Goldstein seemed to find himself the only North player roving Bellchambers' taps, or the only one within tackling distance of pacy opponents. It's exactly like when Tom Hawkins/Lance Franklin/any other opposition KPF is one-out in the square with Luke McDonald/Jamie Macmillan/Shaun Atley - it's the perfect image to make it seriously obvious that we have a fundamental structural problem. Infuriatingly, it's yet another persistent one - it flows from Brad Scott's insistence that success is all about playing our own "brand" of football well (it's notable just how often good opposition midfielders can rack up 40+ disposals against us, and that Jacobs became a tagger when Crocker was caretaker in 2015...).

Any team worth their salt has structures and plans designed to counter what the opposition are doing; if we've got such a thing, the repeated ease with which our opponents win the centre clearances and laconically ease the ball into their forward line says it isn't working. How long do we have to wait until something changes? We're so stubborn at the moment that we still think "kick out down the line to Cunnington" is a viable strategy, even though every other team must be onto it by now. We saw last week that effort and intensity are crucial to whether or not we can win, but even with that workrate, I don't see these creaky structures netting us too many victories now or any time in the future - poor skill execution has hurt us a lot this season too, no doubt, but all signs point primarily to something seriously wrong in the coaching/football department, and the sooner the club realises this and takes whatever action necessary to rectify it, the better. Until then...??????????
 

Themanbun

Team Captain
Joined
Apr 19, 2019
Posts
411
Likes
1,232
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Even with the observed failures around the stoppage and clearances in the first quarter, it's worth noting that after the first quarter, Brad basically said that the players weren't following his directions in the 'style of game we wanna play'.

That's right, the quarter we were most competitive in was when the players disobeyed instruction.
 

ferball

Premium Platinum
Joined
Jul 24, 2015
Posts
10,080
Likes
18,482
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Go to a clip from 5 years ago and you'll find the same setup.

Just incredibly staid, incredibly predictable.
If you look at the gif from around 2.2 seconds you'll see that because Bellchambers is under no pressure and in control of the tap and the space around the ball he's able to keep his left hand on the ball and direct it to Cunners' man Heppel (as an afterthought I'm guessing,) who has let Cunners free to dominate the spot the ball looked like it was going to. In a proper ruck contest it would have been much harder for Bellchambers to do this and Cunners would have had prime position with our (other) hardest player right by him for support.

Basically both sides made the same play, our players were in front at the contest in what i'd consider the best spot and a poor ruck contest cost us.

That's down to the ruckman.

And that's what is gonna happen with the 6 6 6 rule. Its gonna be a shoot out/guessing game and centre bounces will play out like that more often. It seems that's already happening across the league, to me anyway.

Goldy's value as an extra midfielder is dependent on him being able to follow up and influence the contest but with the fast break play the 666 rule encourages this is pointless (at centre bounces anyway.) He's there but running after the ball as it flies into their forward line.

Obviously what happens at stoppages around the ground is a different story.
 

shintemaster

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 24, 2002
Posts
14,168
Likes
22,109
Location
Ponderama
AFL Club
North Melbourne
It gets worse every time you watch.

Jed and cunners clearly are still working out playing together but the cake is Higgins accountability on Shiel.
Yep. People have been happily giving it to Goldy but you watch that and he is the only player in their that comes close to putting any pressure on 3 different players while his team mates (whose job it is to compete) stand around with their fingers up their arses (except Higgins who basically ambles off in the other direction).
 

Themanbun

Team Captain
Joined
Apr 19, 2019
Posts
411
Likes
1,232
AFL Club
North Melbourne
If you look at the gif from around 2.2 seconds you'll see that because Bellchambers is under no pressure and in control of the tap and the space around the ball he's able to keep his left hand on the ball and direct it to Cunners' man Heppel (as an afterthought I'm guessing,) who has let Cunners free to dominate the spot the ball looked like it was going to. In a proper ruck contest it would have been much harder for Bellchambers to do this and Cunners would have had prime position with our (other) hardest player right by him for support.

Basically both sides made the same play, our players were in front at the contest in what i'd consider the best spot and a poor ruck contest cost us.

That's down to the ruckman.

And that's what is gonna happen with the 6 6 6 rule. Its gonna be a shoot out/guessing game and centre bounces will play out like that more often. It seems that's already happening across the league, to me anyway.

Goldy's value as an extra midfielder is dependent on him being able to follow up and influence the contest but with the fast break play the 666 rule encourages this is pointless (at centre bounces anyway.) He's there but running after the ball as it flies into their forward line.

Obviously what happens at stoppages around the ground is a different story.
Watch it a few more times. All three of our players are goalside at the time of the tap whilst one Essendon player is goalside, one is defensive and the other is at or around the ruck contest itself.

We did not do the right thing there, and what Essendon did well was they played for the lost taps.

According to Brad we actually won first possession frequently. And that's because if Ben or Jed won the ball, 1-2 Essendon mids made a direct path straight to our designated 'outside' player so they could pressure him.

I respect your analysis but I'm not seeing that clip the same way you are.
 

Grogg

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Posts
5,700
Likes
12,800
Location
Womb with a view
AFL Club
North Melbourne
We have 2 plays. The "dead drop" tap to the centre at an incomming Cunners feet, or the flick over Goldys shoulder to a sweeping Higgins. Basically ultra attacking and completely contingent on Goldy executing perfectly. With the emphasis on perfect. Most centre square ruck contests are a crap shoot and the hitouts to advantage vs total hitouts stats bare that out. If you're running an easily readable play on endless loop, it's not hard to understand our abysmal return s in there.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom