Unofficial Preview round 5 we have to play again sorry this time against richmond

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TheMase

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Should barely be in the team

Seems to appear at half back half the time

There’s a lack of consistency

Also on Heeney the stats seemed to indicate he rarely attended centre bounces etc
I agree with him not being in the team / not making a big enough contribution right now. I had him out of my round one team and have highlighted his poor form that stretched back into 2018.

Doesn’t really change the point though. Many here going on about Mills being a junior mid, Heeney, Clarke an inside gun etc.

But I have never seen the same argument across time for players such as Ronke and Smith who were drafted as midfielders. The argument for Dawson is he should play midfield because of NEAFL but he was drafted as a forward? Why no argument he has been played out of position in the NEAFL and why the argument he should play midfield in seniors even though he was drafted as a forward? It simply isn’t consistent, either “their position” from junior footy means something, or it doesn’t.

The simple answer is their junior footy “career” means fu** all once they are selected to be on an AFL list where they become paid professionals who are expected to compete in any position assigned to them that will make the best possible contribution to the team.

To say a player like Papley has “stagnated” when they are expanding his role as well as adding him to the leadership group is quite laughable. Same as Rowbottom having him spend some time up forward to expand his ability to contribute to the team. I see these things as positive things, not negative...

FWIW the limited opportunities I have had to speak with kids who were drafted have noted that joining the AFL “is like playing a different sport”, such is the difference between professional and amateur junior football.
 

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The King!

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I agree with him not being in the team / not making a big enough contribution right now. I had him out of my round one team and have highlighted his poor form that stretched back into 2018.

Doesn’t really change the point though. Many here going on about Mills being a junior mid, Heeney, Clarke an inside gun etc.

But I have never seen the same argument across time for players such as Ronke and Smith who were drafted as midfielders. The argument for Dawson is he should play midfield because of NEAFL but he was drafted as a forward? Why no argument he has been played out of position in the NEAFL and why the argument he should play midfield in seniors even though he was drafted as a forward? It simply isn’t consistent, either “their position” from junior footy means something, or it doesn’t.

The simple answer is their junior footy “career” means **** all once they are selected to be on an AFL list where they become paid professionals who are expected to compete in any position assigned to them that will make the best possible contribution to the team.

To say a player like Papley has “stagnated” when they are expanding his role as well as adding him to the leadership group is quite laughable. Same as Rowbottom having him spend some time up forward to expand his ability to contribute to the team. I see these things as positive things, not negative...

FWIW the limited opportunities I have had to speak with kids who were drafted have noted that joining the AFL “is like playing a different sport”, such is the difference between professional and amateur junior football.

mills was a top 3 pick

ronke was just a random spud, thats the difference

people want mills to be a star and its not happening on a flank, thats the simple answer, people dont really care if a player like ronke ever plays a game, let alone becomes a mid
 

Tedeski

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Hello all this is my 1st time post. When our team takes to the field tomorrow evening I think its worth noting that it is comprised of:
6 1st round picks
5 2nd rounders
4 3rd rounder
7 rookies
Rookies are rookies for a reason , predominately a Knock / deficiency on their game of some kind which was why they were overlooked by all
the clubs to start with. Maybe it's just the balance has gone to far with so much youth / inexperience to carry the rest of field.( not to mention the iffy
disposal of a couple of our work horses). Cheers.
Welcome TS.
Good first post.
 

TheMase

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mills was a top 3 pick

ronke was just a random spud, thats the difference

people want mills to be a star and its not happening on a flank, thats the simple answer, people dont really care if a player like ronke ever plays a game, let alone becomes a mid
He was. When he first came into the side he was not required in the midfield (2016: Kennedy, Hannebery, Parker, Mitchell, Jack, Hewett etc). In 2017 we lost Rampe so they decided to keep him back. 2018 we lost him from around 9, but I concede could have played last year.

Now we have a disjointed defence with little better options. In addition, Mills unfortunately lacks leg speed and thus is similar to what we already have there in Kennedy, Parker, Hewett and they have prioritised adding a bit of breakaway speed (Jones, Papley) rather than much of the same thus he has stayed in defence.

I still think in time he will move to the midfield, but it doesn’t look like it’s on the horizon right now.

Pick 3 is a bit misleading to in that the selecting club knew we would match, thus he may have been bid on a bit early, certainly does not have the speed of a traditional top selections. We matched with a group of picks in the 30s and 40s and he is better than anyone we would have gotten there. Based on SF51 draft analysis, if we had drafted with all those picks instead of taking Mills, around one would have made it based on the % success rate. Looking at that draft, I reckon Mills is better than any of the rest at that point anyway so nothing lost, even if he doesn’t become the superstar everyone hoped.
 

Tedeski

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I agree with him not being in the team / not making a big enough contribution right now. I had him out of my round one team and have highlighted his poor form that stretched back into 2018.

Doesn’t really change the point though. Many here going on about Mills being a junior mid, Heeney, Clarke an inside gun etc.

But I have never seen the same argument across time for players such as Ronke and Smith who were drafted as midfielders. The argument for Dawson is he should play midfield because of NEAFL but he was drafted as a forward? Why no argument he has been played out of position in the NEAFL and why the argument he should play midfield in seniors even though he was drafted as a forward? It simply isn’t consistent, either “their position” from junior footy means something, or it doesn’t.

The simple answer is their junior footy “career” means **** all once they are selected to be on an AFL list where they become paid professionals who are expected to compete in any position assigned to them that will make the best possible contribution to the team.

To say a player like Papley has “stagnated” when they are expanding his role as well as adding him to the leadership group is quite laughable. Same as Rowbottom having him spend some time up forward to expand his ability to contribute to the team. I see these things as positive things, not negative...

FWIW the limited opportunities I have had to speak with kids who were drafted have noted that joining the AFL “is like playing a different sport”, such is the difference between professional and amateur junior football.
Great post Masey.
 

LukeParkerno1

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He was. When he first came into the side he was not required in the midfield (2016: Kennedy, Hannebery, Parker, Mitchell, Jack, Hewett etc). In 2017 we lost Rampe so they decided to keep him back. 2018 we lost him from around 9, but I concede could have played last year.

Now we have a disjointed defence with little better options. In addition, Mills unfortunately lacks leg speed and thus is similar to what we already have there in Kennedy, Parker, Hewett and they have prioritised adding a bit of breakaway speed (Jones, Papley) rather than much of the same thus he has stayed in defence.

I still think in time he will move to the midfield, but it doesn’t look like it’s on the horizon right now.

Pick 3 is a bit misleading to in that the selecting club knew we would match, thus he may have been bid on a bit early, certainly does not have the speed of a traditional top selections. We matched with a group of picks in the 30s and 40s and he is better than anyone we would have gotten there. Based on SF51 draft analysis, if we had drafted with all those picks instead of taking Mills, around one would have made it based on the % success rate. Looking at that draft, I reckon Mills is better than any of the rest at that point anyway so nothing lost, even if he doesn’t become the superstar everyone hoped.
Melbourne rates Mills as a MIDFIELDER ahead of Oliver.
 

TheMase

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Melbourne rates Mills as a MIDFIELDER ahead of Oliver.
Based on what? They knew we would match the bid. Bidding on him prior to Oliver isn’t actually an indication at all imo given they knew we’d match our collection of 30s and 40s picks on him regardless.

It’s not conclusive imo.
 

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BruceFromBalnarring

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He was. When he first came into the side he was not required in the midfield (2016: Kennedy, Hannebery, Parker, Mitchell, Jack, Hewett etc). In 2017 we lost Rampe so they decided to keep him back. 2018 we lost him from around 9, but I concede could have played last year.

Now we have a disjointed defence with little better options. In addition, Mills unfortunately lacks leg speed and thus is similar to what we already have there in Kennedy, Parker, Hewett and they have prioritised adding a bit of breakaway speed (Jones, Papley) rather than much of the same thus he has stayed in defence.

I still think in time he will move to the midfield, but it doesn’t look like it’s on the horizon right now.

Pick 3 is a bit misleading to in that the selecting club knew we would match, thus he may have been bid on a bit early, certainly does not have the speed of a traditional top selections. We matched with a group of picks in the 30s and 40s and he is better than anyone we would have gotten there. Based on SF51 draft analysis, if we had drafted with all those picks instead of taking Mills, around one would have made it based on the % success rate. Looking at that draft, I reckon Mills is better than any of the rest at that point anyway so nothing lost, even if he doesn’t become the superstar everyone hoped.
Not sure I agree with all of that. I think Mills is playing a role now but in time will be pure class in the midfield alongside Heeney and Jones. But first he needs to play a role.
 

TheMase

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Not sure I agree with all of that. I think Mills is playing a role now but in time will be pure class in the midfield alongside Heeney and Jones. But first he needs to play a role.
I agree he will likely move to the midfield at some point. I think you’ll be right about class but reserving my enthusiasm until I see him in the midfield more regularly. He does seem to be a distributor with good vision by hand.
 

LukeParkerno1

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Based on what? They knew we would match the bid. Bidding on him prior to Oliver isn’t actually an indication at all imo given they knew we’d match our collection of 30s and 40s picks on him regardless.

It’s not conclusive imo.
Based on his body of work as a junior mid. Just admit it, Horse has got this one wrong. He should be in the mids. You know why our defence looks utter trash- we are getting belted in the middle. Here’s an idea- fix the mids then the defenders will look better.

It’s why I’m adamant Horse should go. At least a new coach might play a mid in the middle.
 

TheMase

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Based on his body of work as a junior mid. Just admit it, Horse has got this one wrong. He should be in the mids. You know why our defence looks utter trash- we are getting belted in the middle. Here’s an idea- fix the mids then the defenders will look better.

It’s why I’m adamant Horse should go. At least a new coach might play a mid in the middle.
Why would I admit anything until he actually had a body of work as an AFL midfielder to compare? His junior footy proves he was an elite junior footy player and not a lot more. You may be right, and to be honest I am not disagreeing with the notion that he would/will be a good AFL midfielder, but we have similar players in there already, and unlike you I don’t think he will be the difference right now so I am not stressing about it.

They are choosing to play Florent, Papley, Jones even Rowbottom (even gave McInerney a game off the wing) as players with different attributes than the existing mids and wings that add something different than Mills.
 

dosser

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Based on his body of work as a junior mid. Just admit it, Horse has got this one wrong. He should be in the mids. You know why our defence looks utter trash- we are getting belted in the middle. Here’s an idea- fix the mids then the defenders will look better.

It’s why I’m adamant Horse should go. At least a new coach might play a mid in the middle.
If you look at the 2015 draft, it certainly wasn't a midfielder's draft. This would mean that if you were half decent you would stand out. From memory, I don't think Mills even played much that season as well. Melbourne selected Mills and then took Oliver which was considered a reach at the time, because there simply weren't a lot of quality midfielders that year.
You will also find that in junior teams the best players play on the ball so that they can get it more. Playing as a midfielder in juniors just means that you were one of the better players in your year, but put them in a team that has a selection of the best players over a number of years and maybe you don't rate as well.
Mills isn't fast and he isn't a contested 'beast', but he may have been one of the best in his year. A year in which there wasn't a lot to choose from as midfielders.
I like Mills, but I have yet to see him justify some of the hype he gets in here when you see him in the midfield. Maybe his best position is behind the play as he will add more value to the team there in a "Hodge" role.
 

dean33

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Sorry for the intrusion, I hear heeney is in doubt, any truth in this?

I know we go in favourites however I think this is a massive danger game for us and I’m not overly confident we’ll walk away with the 4 points. Buddy has been bagged all week and will no doubt come out firing, he also doesn’t have rance to contend with. I’m expecting a very tough game that will be much closer than people think.
 
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