Review Round 6, 2020 - Brisbane Lions vs. Geelong

[royboys4eva]

Agree about Lyons - he is a solid contributor who wins contested ball but when he is getting beaten in that department he isn't offering much. I am happy to give him the benefit of the doubt for last night and hope some extra rest he can bounce back.

 

[martinson]

There were a number of changes I could see:

• Martin replaced Oscar in the ruck.
• Rayner and McCarthy spent more time in the middle to try to get them more or re-involved.
• Match-ups got rotated in defense, which at least shut down Rohan.
• Hipwood moved right up the field, even into the defensive 50 frequently, playing almost as a wing.

I'm not saying they worked because they demonstrably did not as a whole, but there were plenty of changes.

Agree .Fages swung a few things but I reckon the boys might have still been a bit sore and tired. Then Clug got hurt ,plus Robbo. There's sometimes not a lot you can do when the game opens up and a team like Geelong gets on a roll . And only those pulling any changes know how much certain players had left to give at that point.

I'm not disappointed overall. We can still play when we put it together.

 

[jackess]

There is nothing wrong in recognising what we did not do well and where we need to improve. We need not to overreact but do need to learn from our mistakes and what we need to do to win next time.

Nothing works 100% of the time. If it works most weeks you don’t focus on the one week it didn’t.

 

[LIONS08]

There is nothing wrong in recognising what we did not do well and where we need to improve. We need not to overreact but do need to learn from our mistakes and what we need to do to win next time.

Oh I completely agree with that. The need to not overreact is more where I was coming from. A 5 day break which included packing up and moving interstate after a pretty heavy and taxing game on Saturday was never going to be an easy task. Being a bull down in the centre also cost us last night I reckon. Fagan and co will reset the boys, make a few necessary tweaks and we will be good to go!

 

[whizkizz]

Lucky for us grand finals aren’t played on Thursdays, can’t get stage fright on the big day!

So despite not winning one of these big games in front of a national audience in years, we're just going to turn up and do the business on GF day.

I'd say we won't even get close to that given how much stage fright we get.

These posts got me thinking about our history in this 'unusual' timeslot. Being curious, I went back and looked at our history coming off a 5-day break.

Since 2000, we’ve played only 11 games off a 5 day break, and whilst we’ve won 4 of those, 3 of them were in a different era under Lethal, and the last win coming under Vossy in 2010.

Since 2010 we have produced some absolute howlers off 5-day breaks, most of which have been at home. Notably we have never won an away game coming off a 5-day break (and recent home games have been a sorry affair).

5 Day Breaks (Since 2000)

Rd 6 2020 – Lost to Geelong by 27 points (5 day break for opposition) @ SCG
Rd 5 2019 – Lost to Collingwood by 62 points (6 day break for opposition) @ G
Rd 5 2014 – Lost to Richmond by 42 points (6 day break for opposition) @ G
Rd 10 2013 – Lost to Collingwood by 49 points (6 day break for opposition) @ G
Rd 2 2012 – Lost to Carlton by 91 points (7 day break for opposition) @ G
Rd 14 2010 – Lost to Carlton by 55 points (5 day break for opposition) @ Docklands
Rd 2 2010 – Defeated Carlton by 19 points (7 day break for opposition) @ G
Rd 2 2007 – Defeated St Kilda by 52 points (6 day break for opposition) @ G
Rd 3 2006 – Lost to St Kilda by 37 points (6 day break for opposition) @ Docklands
Rd 3 2004 – Defeated Collingwood by 60 points (5 day break for opposition) @ G
Rd 4 2003 – Defeated Collingwood by 14 points (5 day break for opposition) @ G

Sadly these 5 day breaks make up the majority of our ‘primetime’ games, but I’ve dug up the remaining Thursday/Friday night games we’ve played since 2000.

We’ve only played an additional 6 ‘primetime’ games over the past 20 years, and the only ‘away’ win has come at a neutral ground in New Zealand.

Other Thu/Fri Games (Since 2000)

Rd 6 2014 – Defeated St Kilda by 3 points (Friday night) @ NZ
Rd 5 2011 – Lost to St Kilda by 13 points (Thursday night) @ G
Rd 4 2009 – Lost to Collingwood by 17 points (Friday night) @ G
Rd 2 2008 – Defeated Collingwood by 2 points (Friday night) @ G
Rd 1 2005 – Defeated St Kilda by 23 points (Thursday night) @ G
Rd 14 2000 – Lost to North Melbourne by 4 points (Friday night) @ Docklands

Quick maths and ignoring finals, we’ve played 446 matches since the start of 2000 (20 x 22, + 6), with only 17 (or less than 4%) of those games falling in ‘primetime’. I don’t think we can discount the fact that playing a Thursday or Friday night game is a rather unusual experience for our players, and we can only get better from experience.

Now consider our opposition’s record going into last night’s game, in the past 3 and a bit years alone (since the start of 2017), Geelong have played 22 Thursday/Friday night matches (7 of which have been finals) compared to our ONE. Feel a little better about our performance yet?

I think our preparation coming off 5 day breaks probably also needs to be better, over the last 10 or so years my memory of these games has been running out of legs and copping a hiding (is it a positive that that didn’t quite happen last night?). Interestingly our recent form coming off 6-day breaks is much better, having won the last 5 of these.

6 Day Breaks (Since 2019)

Rd 5 2020 – Defeated Port Adelaide by 37 points (7 day break for opposition) @ G
Rd 21 2019 – Defeated Gold Coast by 91 points (6 day break for opposition) @ G
Rd 18 2019 – Defeated North Melbourne by 12 points (7 day break for opposition) @ G
Rd 11 2019 – Defeated Hawthorn by 19 points (7 day break for opposition) @ TAS
Rd 3 2019 - Defeated Port Adelaide by 17 points (7 day break for opposition) @ G

Given we haven’t won at the SCG since 2009, the 5-day break hoodoo (that is now 10 years young), and throw in the Leigh Fisher curse, we pretty much stood no chance last night.

 

[BRAB]

Starcevich needs to be omitted for last night's display. A message needs to be sent particularly given we aren't short of players to play his position. I'd add Birchall to the list of omissions. Just no words.

You can't drop the whole team mate.

 

[KissKiss]

Interesting stats there. Think that really shows that we needed to change things up more. Think it was a mistake at selection not bringing in some fresh legs.

But now we have a long break so should we back them all in as it was "just one bad game" or bring in new players now once its too late

 

[Hollow Knight]

Stef might need to drop some bulk if he wants to eek out another year. Like Mumford did.

His battle worn body can’t carry all that muscle.

 

[dlanod]

Like I said we need to work on making space and moving , and that is all over the field not just inside 50.
Who was in the goal square area(Charlie)? from memory there was a lot of space around to work with.

That is my point, not just blaming Berry here.
It's one area of improvement we need to take.

We build our game on territory so the boot the ball forward is going to happen, time to work on alternatives .
Time to play more like Richmond or the Hawks when they were at there best, precision kicking and bodies in motion working through the field.
Is it time to bring Witho back ?
Edit: Sounds like it was Clugga I'm referring to that was in front of goal.
Carry on.

I don't know who you're thinking of that was free in the goal square. Reviewing the game I was wrong - it wasn't Charlie there, it was McCarthy (not in the shot below) but he was definitely not open. McCluggage is the one people are complaining about because he had his arms out demanding a handball just prior to this shot, so it seems easy to blame the results. I'm not going to get my knickers in a twist over Berry having this shot instead of handballing it given every disposal introduces a chance of a turnover, McCluggage is known to only be ok at goalling on the run and it's not like he was running into an open goal square, and Berry is not under any pressure. The handball was probably a better option but only marginally - there's been plenty of complaints in previous weeks about guys getting too fancy and I'm sure that line would've been pulled out if the handball had occurred and there was a stuff up or a miss.

Here's the vision:

 

[jackess]

Along with the trend of us not stepping up with big matches there’s now of a clear trend of Rayner stepping up.

 

[whizkizz]

Interesting stats there. Think that really shows that we needed to change things up more. Think it was a mistake at selection not bringing in some fresh legs.

But now we have a long break so should we back them all in as it was "just one bad game" or bring in new players now once its too late

Agree, think we need more fresh legs and player rotations for these games in future.

I forgot to add I had an afterthought that perhaps losing CEY in the first quarter last week compounded our problems this week on the short turnaround. Food for thought.

 

[KissKiss]

Stef might need to drop some bulk if he wants to eek out another year. Like Mumford did.

His battle worn body can’t carry all that muscle.

Only played 70% game time while Oscar played 67%. Both well down on their normal average. Clear that they struggled to back up the game and I think we missed a trick in not resting one of them

 

[Dalions]

We had 14 players who had 10 disposals or less and another 4 who had between 11-15.
Can’t win a ball game without getting your hands on the ball.

 

[Hirsty23]

Teams lose games, move onto next week. Still feeling positive about this season. Geelong exposed us in a couple of areas though. Stef i'm afraid has lost his ability to win the ball around the ground and i'm not sure we can carry him in the side if he doesn't have that string to his bow. Backline on paper is very slow, definitely can't have Lester and Birchall in against the better sides. Birchall was a great player at Hawthorn but I feel like Answerth would provide us with a bit more rebound and also help fix our pace issues down back.

One positive from last night is that Rayner has been showning he can have a real impact at center bounces, personally if we have a period where the opposition clear the ball far too easily 2 or 3 times in a row i'd throw him in. Would also love to see Mitch Robbo roll through when momentum is with the opposition, have him throw his weight around, crash into someone. He's a real barometer for us as far as standard setting goes.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc.

I prefer association is not causation but what was the cause of that swing?

 

[Ceebee]

Charles

You forgot the ‘isn’t he?’ at the end of that. Bruce is forever asking nobody in particular to quantify his thoughts.

Drives me nuts .

 

[Dylan12]

You can't drop the whole team mate.

I've only said I'd drop three - Starcevich, Birchall and McCarthy.

Now that Quigley highlighted Tom Berry's game, probably throw him in too. Three games of next to nothing.

Clearly not the whole team.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

That was a weird one. I'm not sure how we go from doing so many things right one week to doing almost the complete opposite for most of the game this week. The bomb into the forward 50 is only effective if the crumbers can crumb, and on a slippery pitch where the opposition is wearing you like a jacket it's just not the strategy.

Without intentionally going into singling players out I'm really perplexed at how McStay played two totally different games in the space of 5 days. Last week he was being applauded for doing everything perfectly - and this time he was 3, 4, 5 players back in a pack mark, or not even jumping for it. A guy that size should be splitting the pack with pace and making defenders piss blood for a week from a knee into the kidney.

J.Bez had some untimely misses on goal but his work rate around the ground was still decent. He put in 7 tackles and got 3 frees out of them.

So good to see McCluggage back on the field after the shoulder thing. He's just too key to go down at the moment.

I have avoided saying this up until now so I don't annoy people, but McStay had one very good quarter last week, one very good quarter but he was VERY quite for the rest of the match, i.e. no more then 2 disposals in each quarter after quarter time. He has been poor for 7 quarters in a row now.

Did people notice how many times Hipwood and McStay went for marks, well really they didn't go for a mark, with one hand. They reminded me of Schace.

 

[Ceebee]

We just don’t handle favouritism and too much hype .

 

[notliondown]

Starcevich needs to be omitted for last night's display. A message needs to be sent particularly given we aren't short of players to play his position. I'd add Birchall to the list of omissions. Just no words.

I love your passion mate but seriously?

If we were omitting players on last nights game we would be running out against GWS with 10 men.

Starc made an error, but already his toughness, usual decision making and 2nd efforts mean he's a lock atm - he's got an upside and is worth persisting with given his inexperience.

Same with J.Berry. Sorry, in a team where our goal kicking is less than 50% accurate I don't mind backing in anyone who feels the confidence to have a shot. You view it as selfish but given our recent yips confidence to try is not something to undermine.

I can handle mistakes from young, passionate players who have upsides and who experience benifits - good and bad. I'm not sure how else you create success if every mistake steals opportunity - and in turn confidence - by being dropped.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

The call of someone who just looked at this year's goal kicking stats. IIRC McStay was 6.0 before this game.

Most of them (all?) were running into an open goal about 3 metres out. Set shots from 30 metres? He misses too often.

I also think he does not try to get to dangerous positions because he knows how unreliable he is from a set shot 30 metres from goal. I reckon he would be a far better player if he could fix his goal kicking

 

[notliondown]

The bigger question really is this...

How the absolute f**k is Geelong still a decent side??? It feels like forever they have been there or there abouts while others have come and gone. They are fast becoming the team I want to beat most... And if I have to listen to Brooooce and Jobe (seriously????) Watson polish their knobs over them again I may well switch to Soccer...




Not.

 

[dlanod]

Most of them (all?) were running into an open goal about 3 metres out. Set shots from 30 metres? He misses too often.

I was commenting on Bruce's casual ignorance of McStay's goal kicking issues. However acknowledging that McStay is not a good goal kicker doesn't mean we need to mislead about his goal kicking with fake stats like those.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

Yes Starcevich's kick was a shocker. My dog jumped of the couch and out the front door when I reacted but he is still learning his craft and pressure games like this is where he will do just that. He has heaps of upside. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater just yet.

Longlion are really thinking of getting rid of your dog because of his reaction to your reaction?

 

[Ralphy2017]

Yes Starcevich's kick was a shocker. My dog jumped of the couch and out the front door when I reacted but he is still learning his craft and pressure games like this is where he will do just that. He has heaps of upside. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater just yet.

agree get some experience into the young guys, and yes they will make mistakes, but so do the older blokes. How good is Lester going...not. Three good games against weak teams Dockers (out of form WC) & Crows and everyone jumped on, well his last two games have been very ordinary. Birchall should have been 'managed' with a 5 day break and Answerth and or Witho played. Young guys have more upside then an old player seeing out a retirement year.