Review Round 6, 2020 - Brisbane Lions vs. Geelong

[BRAB]

I've only said I'd drop three - Starcevich, Birchall and McCarthy.

Now that Quigley highlighted Tom Berry's game, probably throw him in too. Three games of next to nothing.

Clearly not the whole team.

Honestly of all people I'd expect you to understand hyperbole.

 

[martinson]

Remember the Carlton game last year. Some similarities.

It gave us the kick up the backside to drive us to be better.

I think it was a good point about our rucks being tired . But they never stopped trying.

Stef will be fine .

Weight of expectation seems to have got hold of us in our last few big games . We will learn from that .

I also thought Geelong tried to bully us early , this is a tactic we need to get used to. There seems to be a school of thought out there that we can be out muscled

 

[Tom14]

The bigger question really is this...

How the absolute f**k is Geelong still a decent side??? It feels like forever they have been there or there abouts while others have come and gone. They are fast becoming the team I want to beat most... And if I have to listen to Brooooce and Jobe (seriously????) Watson polish their knobs over them again I may well switch to Soccer...




Not.

God I'm so over it. It doesn't help that Danger must be the biggest whinger for free kicks in the game.

 

[LongLion]

Longlion are really thinking of getting rid of your dog because of his reaction to your reaction?

Not the 1st time it has happened. Guess hes just gunna learn to live with it or find somewhere else to curl up on when I'm watching the game. He just looks at me funny at other times when I make the odd comment or shout.

 

[LongLion]

agree get some experience into the young guys, and yes they will make mistakes, but so do the older blokes. How good is Lester going...not. Three good games against weak teams Dockers (out of form WC) & Crows and everyone jumped on, well his last two games have been very ordinary. Birchall should have been 'managed' with a 5 day break and Answerth and or Witho played. Young guys have more upside then an old player seeing out a retirement year.

I'm happy with Lester but in retrospect Burchall should have been managed out for this game

 

[martinson]

I'm happy with Lester but in retrospect Burchall should have been managed out for this game

Agree with that . The older guys struggled . Robbo got injured.

 

[Back2Back2Back]

I think some of our problem too is a lack of mongrel. An example from tonight's game would be when Lester got taken out by that 23 mutt and none of our boys stepped in. It always bothers me when teams don't have a lot of that get-in-the-oppo's-face moxy. It tells me the players don't play for each other just the game check.

This actually really pisses me off. I can't imagine Collingwood or Richmond shying away from putting him in his place after one of their players gets illegally smashed. And that wasn't his first incident of the night - to me that almost requires pack retaliation, and a forced interchange visit to replace a ripped jumper.

You should not think that you can do that to any of us. Simple. And by not remonstrating at all we let them get away with thinking they could, so they continued.

 

[Dylan12]

Honestly of all people I'd expect you to understand hyperbole.

No idea what it is.

 

[LIONS08]

Stef might need to drop some bulk if he wants to eek out another year. Like Mumford did.

His battle worn body can’t carry all that muscle.

He was really battling last night. Could hardly bend down!

 

[The Zork]

This actually really pisses me off. I can't imagine Collingwood or Richmond shying away from putting him in his place after one of their players gets illegally smashed. And that wasn't his first incident of the night - to me that almost requires pack retaliation, and a forced interchange visit to replace a ripped jumper.

You should not think that you can do that to any of us. Simple. And by not remonstrating at all we let them get away with thinking they could, so they continued.

Geelong full of wily veterans who know how to draw a free or 2. I thought for sure Selwood was going to get that one back from Birchall.

If we retaliated we would have almost surely had a few reversals which Geelong would of wanted - they know they can play on the edge and I don’t think we have quite found the balance.

I think a message has been made clear to us to not be stupid in those situations as we’ve been undisciplined at times this year and it’s cost us goals but last night instead of flying the flag fairly we ignored it.

 

[martinson]

Geelong full of wily veterans who know how to draw a free or 2. I thought for sure Selwood was going to get that one back from Birchall.

If we retaliated we would have almost surely had a few reversals which Geelong would of wanted - they know they can play on the edge and I don’t think we have quite found the balance.

I think a message has been made clear to us to not be stupid in those situations as we’ve been undisciplined at times this year and it’s cost us goals but last night instead of flying the flag fairly we ignored it.

I wouldn't be surprised if a review or two comes out of this game. They went the head a few times.

 

[Ralphy2017]

I'm happy with Lester but in retrospect Burchall should have been managed out for this game

One of the problems with player Lester, apart from adding another backline player without leg speed, is that Gardner has to play the 2nd tall and on the bigger and stronger forward, such as last night gave away a few penalties. At 198 and around 101kg and with leg speed,Payne should be taking one of the talls and Gardner playing third tall. This might not be for every week it depends on the opposition. GWS have three talls, but body wise not overly big so perhaps Lester and Gardner can manage them. I think Skinner because he is in Sydney should play this week in the forward line where he has been playing all last year in NEAFL and in match sims , drop one of the non performing forwards. Mcstay is not a good set shot kick for goal, that is obvious, but he does provide a link up-field and usually competes for the ball, but does not take many marks and can we afford to have a KPF that is not comfortable taking set shots

 

[whizkizz]

Wow, the Telstra tracker in the AFL app (that covers all sorts of GPS metrics) has some pretty damming stats from last night.

TOTAL DISTANCE COVERED (km):
Rd 6
BL 176.1
GEE 204.4
Diff -28.3

Compare that with other matches this year-

Rd 1
BL 229.6
HAW 235
Diff -5.4

Rd 2
BL 212
FRE 231.2
Diff -19.2

Rd 3
BL 224
WCE 222.9
Diff +1.1

Rd 4
BL 215.6
ADE 229.6
Diff -14

Rd 5
BL 225.5
PA 231.6
Diff -6.1

It shows a bit of a trend that we rarely outrun our opponents (we probably do more damage on the attack, aside from accuracy in front of goal), but last night is a very low number.

Our season average was 221.34 heading into last night, which we landed 45km short of (2km per player!). We didn't (or couldn't) work hard enough, even with Narkle and Duncan out of action early.

5-day break fatigue is real, and hurts us. Need to sort something out quick, particularly if there's going to be more games crammed into the back half of the season.

 

[Back2Back2Back]

Geelong full of wily veterans who know how to draw a free or 2. I thought for sure Selwood was going to get that one back from Birchall.

If we retaliated we would have almost surely had a few reversals which Geelong would of wanted - they know they can play on the edge and I don’t think we have quite found the balance.

I think a message has been made clear to us to not be stupid in those situations as we’ve been undisciplined at times this year and it’s cost us goals but last night instead of flying the flag fairly we ignored it.

I get your point, but I believe there's a time and place to show we're not the team to do it to and I'm sure it can be done in a "disciplined" fashion. Zorko should have been into the face of the umpires at the quarter time break telling them we expect better protection than just a free kick. That specific incident was late, and a head high shoulder charge - should have been 50 as well if it was reportable.

edit: clearly I'm in favour of flying the flag. I just think back to when I played - you mess with one of the team and you have to deal with the rest of us. That mentality sorted a lot of s**t out on the field.

 

[martinson]

Wow, the Telstra tracker in the AFL app (that covers all sorts of GPS metrics) has some pretty damming stats from last night.

TOTAL DISTANCE COVERED (km):
Rd 6
BL 176.1
GEE 204.4
Diff -28.3

Compare that with other matches this year-

Rd 1
BL 229.6
HAW 235
Diff -5.4

Rd 2
BL 212
FRE 231.2
Diff -19.2

Rd 3
BL 224
WCE 222.9
Diff +1.1

Rd 4
BL 215.6
ADE 229.6
Diff -14

Rd 5
BL 225.5
PA 231.6
Diff -6.1

It shows a bit of a trend that we rarely outrun our opponents (we probably do more damage on the attack, aside from accuracy in front of goal), but last night is a very low number.

Our season average was 221.34 heading into last night, which we landed 45km short of (2km per player!). We didn't (or couldn't) work hard enough, even with Narkle and Duncan out of action early.

5-day break fatigue is real, and hurts us. Need to sort something out quick, particularly if there's going to be more games crammed into the back half of the season.

Big issue in this shortened season and perhaps we need to be more flexible in selection. It's probably not as important when we have games on the trot at home

 

[M Malice]

Most coaches swing the changes to stem the flow.

I'm not sure Fagan did anything.

Our forward set up barely worked all night and he did nothing to change anything even if he swapped Andrews and McStay around or something.

We were outcoached last night pure and simple. Geelong got very easy movement through the midfield and were able to expose the deficiencies in our defenders. When we got the ball at the back they also funnelled it into the poor ball users well and mistakes were made. When we were on top Scott adjusted and when Geelong started to go away Fagan did not. One thing Fagan needs to get better at is in game adjustments. Too often there is no real plan B or willingness to make positional changes to try and mix things up.

The midfield is where we lost it last night. We were belted through there particularly in the middle quarters.

I find it interesting that there has been a fair bit of criticism of Berry. For me I have no problem with him taking open shots. He was balanced and in range and you want that shot to be taken. He was also huge in the last and again showed why he should be in the middle all the time. He was the guy who carried the midfield in the last quarter.

Starc made one howler and was not great overall but if Fagan was going to drop guys for one error Gardner would never get a game. Darcy had his usual two or three bad mistakes last night and struggled with his match up. The match committee have KPD alternatives surely they have to give someone a run shortly. We went in undersized and paid for it.

Speaking of match ups Lester got left high and dry with his match ups last night. Time and again he was matched up on extremely quick opponents and was exposed for it. I agree with the comment of others that he looks to have picked up a yard this year but he is never going to be a speed merchant and he was exposed yesterday. With Birchall back there and being as slow as he is it can make match ups difficult.

At the other end of the ground we struggled to mark anything. Charlie has been well down on his form of last year and dropped a couple of marks he really should have taken. A couple of those, converted into goals at crucial times could have swung momentum. He needs to have a close look at this tape and pick up his game from last year.

Young Berry did not do a hell of a lot but I really like his enthusiasm and attack on the ball. The main problem for me is that he is not really a forward and is not really a threat up there. He is a midfielder who they are trying to get games into and whilst he is applying pressure he is not really adding anything offensively.

I have been one who has criticised the continual gifting of games to Rayner but I have to say I thought Rayner was very good last night. He covered a lot more ground than usual and for once was actually popping up in the backline doing things when he was playing in the midfield. I also observed him a few times also deliberately not going for the mark when the big guys were in there but rather position himself at the front of the contest to get the spill.

Going back to the middle I am not sure there is a more plain vanilla player in the competition than Lyons. He was our second leading disposal getter last night but was all but invisible. He never wins a big clearance, never gets a damaging disposal, never takes a big mark. He just blends into the background. He will move the ball along to the safe easy option, quickly scoop out a clearance to the nearest guy, make a tackle in the contest but he never makes a difference making play. When the momentum is going against us he is never one to step up and do something to get things going our way again. The things he does have value but I think when we need heavy lifting done that he needs to be moved out of the midfield. Another problem with him is that he can only play through the midfield and offers nothing elsewhere which presents problems in itself. I am not saying Lyons is a bad player or is not in fact a key element of the team when things are going our way I am just not sure he gives enough when they are not trending our way. When the A graders from Geelong were thrown into the midfield and were stepping up, Lyons was in there and doing nothing.

Fagan in his presser responded to a question about what he wanted to do to stem the flow... he said they wanted to slow the play down but he pointed out it's very difficult when you are down -23 in contested ball for that quarter alone and IIRC we were down 9-0 at one stage in that quarter for clearances, the mids could not get their hands on the ball. Also dlanod s post #169 points out some changes made.

The adjustments Fagan made at quarter time in the game v Port certainly made a difference.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

I hate the lions losing just as much as anyone, ruins my week. But one loss doesn’t not mean we have a bad game plan, doesn’t not mean we are selfish and you don’t drop blokes after one bad game or a mistake. I despise Geelong but they are still a good side. The high pressure games will be of benefit in the long run. Anyone who has played sport knows sometimes things just don’t work out and you will lose sometimes. No one more will be shaking their heads more than the blokes that made those s**t mistakes and that won’t do it next time.

 

[The Zork]

I get your point, but I believe there's a time and place to show we're not the team to do it to and I'm sure it can be done in a "disciplined" fashion. Zorko should have been into the face of the umpires at the quarter time break telling them we expect better protection than just a free kick. That specific incident was late, and a head high shoulder charge - should have been 50 as well if it was reportable.

edit: clearly I'm in favour of flying the flag. I just think back to when I played - you mess with one of the team and you have to deal with the rest of us. That mentality sorted a lot of sh*t out on the field.

I reckon they should of responded I agree - was obvious early that Geelong wanted to be physical.

May well of played into the cats hands if we did though, you never know. Fages might of called for calm heads.

Although sometimes when you let a team be physical (like port last year) they end up focusing on nothing but being physical. Geelong just have that balance of leaders to level them out id say.

 

[KissKiss]

Big issue in this shortened season and perhaps we need to be more flexible in selection. It's probably not as important when we have games on the trot at home

If what I was hearing yesterday about cramming more games in (averaging 4.5 day breaks between games) then the AFL as a whole needs to be more open to resting and rotating players. We wont be able to afford every player playing every week. That potentially means finding time for even Neale and Harris to be rested

 

[jjami15]

Wow, the Telstra tracker in the AFL app (that covers all sorts of GPS metrics) has some pretty damming stats from last night.

TOTAL DISTANCE COVERED (km):
Rd 6
BL 176.1
GEE 204.4
Diff -28.3

Compare that with other matches this year-

Rd 1
BL 229.6
HAW 235
Diff -5.4

Rd 2
BL 212
FRE 231.2
Diff -19.2

Rd 3
BL 224
WCE 222.9
Diff +1.1

Rd 4
BL 215.6
ADE 229.6
Diff -14

Rd 5
BL 225.5
PA 231.6
Diff -6.1

It shows a bit of a trend that we rarely outrun our opponents (we probably do more damage on the attack, aside from accuracy in front of goal), but last night is a very low number.

Our season average was 221.34 heading into last night, which we landed 45km short of (2km per player!). We didn't (or couldn't) work hard enough, even with Narkle and Duncan out of action early.

5-day break fatigue is real, and hurts us. Need to sort something out quick, particularly if there's going to be more games crammed into the back half of the season.

Maybe we are down hill skiers?

 

[Dylan12]

Maybe we are down hill skiers?

It’d crossed my mind too.

 

[irish]

the concern was as soon as the cats got on top their was no comeback , they could not find a way to stop them or even score for that matter

 

[ItsRaynerGoals]

I was critical of Martins lack of effort in the ruck and around the ground, I know he has been injured but you can’t dish that effort up. At times when he was attempting to handle the ball it was like watching a pinball machine, the ball was bouncing off him that much. I also don’t understand why he constantly tapped the ball to his feet (When he won the tap) knowing that the Cats were winning clearances and contested possession, it was dumb ruck work.


We also need to find a way to get CC into the game when he is not getting starved of opportunity, we could use his pace up the ground, this would also throw out he backline structure of the opposition.

 

[Dylan12]

Young Berry did not do a hell of a lot but I really like his enthusiasm and attack on the ball. The main problem for me is that he is not really a forward and is not really a threat up there. He is a midfielder who they are trying to get games into and whilst he is applying pressure he is not really adding anything offensively.

Hard to disagree with any of that. Certainly gets a tick for enthusiasm but that is where it abruptly ends. Offers next to nothing offensively and too small for the midfield given our mature mids already easily get knocked off the ball.

This is why I think Christensen should come in. Offensively he is very good and causes headaches for opposition defences and last year he demonstrated how valuable he was as a defensive forward locking the ball in. He had some great tackles that went rewarded late last year.

Surely his non-selection has nothing to do with age /development given Fagan is selecting Birchall who looks slow and has no long-term future at the expense of Answerth, Witherden and Cox.

I don't want to say Fagan plays favourites, but you can't help but think he is bias with the likes of Birchall and Tom Berry.

 

[Lions99991]

It's just all so disappointing. This was meant to be our period of dominance, but we have the yipps. There is nothing about this club that tells me they can pull through on the big occasion because they literally haven't. We win all of our games under the raider and when we're finally noticed, we fold.

Literally no point in following this club as even when we're good we're still embarrassing