Autopsy Round 6, 2020: Fremantle v St.Kilda

[plugger66]

ya'll needa stop. Obviously he needs to focus his coaching on this area as our players aren't getting it. It's a team effort. This is the dumbest back and forth I've read on bigfooty since plugger tried to defend richo circa 2019. Ratts will realise this deficiency now and focus on educating the players. If it's still an issue in 5 rounds then revisit it

Not sure I’ve ever defended richo. I defended stupid comments. Had no opinion either way of richo. The only coach that I really thought was good was Lyon.

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

Not sure I’ve ever defended richo. I defended stupid comments. Had no opinion either way of richo. The only coach that I really thought was good was Lyon.

just rilin' ya puggsy

 

[pebblesofsand]

Agree mate although we definitely got the wobbles up ...Billings clutch goal was significant against Carlton.

I know from someone in the room for a fact that when Teague put Cripps forward & Liam Jones to
play as seventh defender they were instructed not to bomb to the outnumber but to use the spare
all the way up the ground .

They were also told not to blaze away from 50 metres , another message our illustrious Capt ignored
with 2 teammates at the top of goal square in last quarter which resulted in an out bounds when he tried
to kick the cover off the ball in Carlton game.

But will get defended on this forum little doubt .

Comparing Ratts to Richardson is a joke we had no ability to score under Richo , continually played
wide bombing the ball up the line to an outnumber on the wings & forward line.
We refused to rotate our midfield , playing same quartet for huge minutes eventually getting overrun.

They even practiced over this summer , last 3 minute drills continually.
Having fictitious metal players placed in ground which players had to think their way through situations
late in games...all were ignored by certain players.

Hence why Ratten has raised the word “ composure “ or “lack of “in many Media presentations
this year.

Personally I thought Gear's flying shot on the run was one of the best things I've seen for years.

Good on him - stuck down the back pocket pilloried by all and sundry (except his team mates), apparently wouldn't get a game with another AFL team despite playing 190+ games - when he got the ball all I could think was - have a crack Gears have a crack - great to see!!!!

 

[Stewart66]

Personally I thought Gear's flying shot on the run was one of the best things I've seen for years.

Good on him - stuck down the back pocket pilloried by all and sundry (except his team mates), apparently wouldn't get a game with another AFL team despite playing 190+ games - when he got the ball all I could think was - have a crack Gears have a crack - great to see!!!!

 

[George]

No I’m not arguing for the sake of it. The old get out when you have nothing else. It’s not up to me to have evidence that it’s on both even though common sense says it is. You started this by saying it’s all on the players so you need to provide evidence on that. I guessing you will saying during the year it’s a great game plan or coaching move by the coaches. That suggests they do have important during the game. As I’ve said at least 5 times those who had better viewing than Foxtel said longmuir changed up things at quarter time and it seemed to them we didn’t react. That sounds like a coaching and playing issue. It’s also well done to longmuir because he obviously remembered how we also didn’t react in round one when Shaw changed things up.

No I just get tired of going back and forth about it and the fact you keep replying to me isn't going to stop me from telling you you are wrong. Now you reckon you know what I'll say later in the year haha. We have a track record of capitulating in games we are expected to win and have shown many times over many games our deficiencies when it comes to resilience and dealing with adversity. How is effort the coaches fault. Our pressure dropped to below AFL standard after quarter time and you're telling me it's a 50/50 split in terms of accountability. Nonsense.

This group of players. How many played in the 2017 game you mentioned?

Almost half the side out there on the weekend played in that game.

part of coaching is to build up adversity to things like you mentioned. if you don't believe its coachable, then you're questioning list management and the personality types we are bringing through the door.

I believe it can be coached. I think we have good enough players. I think we are talented enough to compete with any side. Majority here are giving this coaching group way too much responsibility for what happened on the weekend though. I am yet to hear any explanation on why it's the coaches fault our pressure dropped from 1.98 to 1.48 within two quarters. Our effort & pressure were elite, so I'm not expecting it to remain at that level, but if we had managed to keep it at least respectable, we would've won that game. I'm not sure many realise how badly we fell away. It was a 7 goal turnaround in 45 minutes of play. We could've had the best game plan in the league, if our pressure falls below AFL standard then any team will beat us. Are we not fit enough? If we aren't, then why isn't it the players responsibility to manage themselves properly? If we are, then why did we capitulate as we did? Maybe we thought it was going to be a cakewalk...in fact I'm almost certain that was the case.

 

[plugger66]

No I just get tired of going back and forth about it and the fact you keep replying to me isn't going to stop me from telling you you are wrong. Now you reckon you know what I'll say later in the year haha. We have a track record of capitulating in games we are expected to win and have shown many times over many games our deficiencies when it comes to resilience and dealing with adversity. How is effort the coaches fault. Our pressure dropped to below AFL standard after quarter time and you're telling me it's a 50/50 split in terms of accountability. Nonsense.


Almost half the side out there on the weekend played in that game.


I believe it can be coached. I think we have good enough players. I think we are talented enough to compete with any side. Majority here are giving this coaching group way too much responsibility for what happened on the weekend though. I am yet to hear any explanation on why it's the coaches fault our pressure dropped from 1.98 to 1.48 within two quarters. Our effort & pressure were elite, so I'm not expecting it to remain at that level, but if we had managed to keep it at least respectable, we would've won that game. I'm not sure many realise how badly we fell away. It was a 7 goal turnaround in 45 minutes of play. We could've had the best game plan in the league, if our pressure falls below AFL standard then any team will beat us. Are we not fit enough? If we aren't, then why isn't it the players responsibility to manage themselves properly? If we are, then why did we capitulate as we did? Maybe we thought it was going to be a cakewalk...in fact I'm almost certain that was the case.

Not sure I ever said it was a 50/50 split. Actually I didn’t. But it’s closer to 50/50 than 100/ nil. Maths isn’t a strong suit for you. As you know it is for me. Closer to a third than a half in that game. 9 out of 22.

 

[robjude]

Want to reply again to what i said because right now you come across as having the same conversational skills as Mark Jackson.

Is that you Warwick Capper?? sorry old mate I didn't realise it was you. I thought I wrote it out clear enough even for a simplest person to understand, obviously not. You were intimating that Gresham is a lousy kick and is not showing any improvement in that area. And my reply was that on your reckoning over half our team should go because a fair percentage of them are lousy kicks. Cheers Jacko!!

 

[StCicatriz]

No I just get tired of going back and forth about it and the fact you keep replying to me isn't going to stop me from telling you you are wrong. Now you reckon you know what I'll say later in the year haha. We have a track record of capitulating in games we are expected to win and have shown many times over many games our deficiencies when it comes to resilience and dealing with adversity. How is effort the coaches fault. Our pressure dropped to below AFL standard after quarter time and you're telling me it's a 50/50 split in terms of accountability. Nonsense.


Almost half the side out there on the weekend played in that game.


I believe it can be coached. I think we have good enough players. I think we are talented enough to compete with any side. Majority here are giving this coaching group way too much responsibility for what happened on the weekend though. I am yet to hear any explanation on why it's the coaches fault our pressure dropped from 1.98 to 1.48 within two quarters. Our effort & pressure were elite, so I'm not expecting it to remain at that level, but if we had managed to keep it at least respectable, we would've won that game. I'm not sure many realise how badly we fell away. It was a 7 goal turnaround in 45 minutes of play. We could've had the best game plan in the league, if our pressure falls below AFL standard then any team will beat us. Are we not fit enough? If we aren't, then why isn't it the players responsibility to manage themselves properly? If we are, then why did we capitulate as we did? Maybe we thought it was going to be a cakewalk...in fact I'm almost certain that was the case.

given the mad as hell rush at the end i think you are spot on with the last point. it's like they thought it would just happen. hell rattens comment son JB and Steele allude to it.

please don't confuse my or others all of club responsibility here with over stating the coaches influence, i am just stating there are areas for improvement there as well. it's a whole of club approach and we need improvement across all areas. it's not down to just one group or the other.

but if i were to weight the responsibility, the way i see it is something like this:
- players: 70-75%
- coaches: 25-20%
- administrators: 5% (noosa logistics)

it falls on the players, but it shows we need improvement in other areas to, yes they're smaller in terms of impact but we need it to happen.

i mean you've highlighted this as well given you would like to see the coaches build the players resilience. so they're going to have to work on that. it will still be up to those players to be coachable and improve.

i would like to see improvements made to our game plan and the different strategies we can implement. but the players also have to actually do it.

 

[plugger66]

given the mad as hell rush at the end i think you are spot on with the last point. it's like they thought it would just happen. hell rattens comment son JB and Steele allude to it.

please don't confuse my or others all of club responsibility here with over stating the coaches influence, i am just stating there are areas for improvement there as well. it's a whole of club approach and we need improvement across all areas. it's not down to just one group or the other.

but if i were to weight the responsibility, the way i see it is something like this:
- players: 70-75%
- coaches: 25-20%
- administrators: 5% (noosa logistics)

it falls on the players, but it shows we need improvement in other areas to, yes they're smaller in terms of impact but we need it to happen.

i mean you've highlighted this as well given you would like to see the coaches build the players resilience. so they're going to have to work on that. it will still be up to those players to be coachable and improve.

i would like to see improvements made to our game plan and the different strategies we can implement. but the players also have to actually do it.

Noosa is clearly the best hub for us and the good clearly outways the bad. 5% positive I hope you mean. Nah. The club has to do something wrong.

 

[StCicatriz]

Noosa is clearly the best hub for us and the good clearly outways the bad. 5% positive I hope you mean. Nah. The club has to do something wrong.

a 2.5 hour commute on game day is a good outcome?

not even WAFL clubs do that s**t when they go and play in the country. it's just madness.

 

[George]

given the mad as hell rush at the end i think you are spot on with the last point. it's like they thought it would just happen. hell rattens comment son JB and Steele allude to it.

please don't confuse my or others all of club responsibility here with over stating the coaches influence, i am just stating there are areas for improvement there as well. it's a whole of club approach and we need improvement across all areas. it's not down to just one group or the other.

but if i were to weight the responsibility, the way i see it is something like this:
- players: 70-75%
- coaches: 25-20%
- administrators: 5% (noosa logistics)

it falls on the players, but it shows we need improvement in other areas to, yes they're smaller in terms of impact but we need it to happen.

i mean you've highlighted this as well given you would like to see the coaches build the players resilience. so they're going to have to work on that. it will still be up to those players to be coachable and improve.

i would like to see improvements made to our game plan and the different strategies we can implement. but the players also have to actually do it.

I agree with all of that. My weighting would probably be the same. I'm just firm on my opinion that the players need to be called out for this loss. They need to feel a huge level of responsibility for what happened on the weekend so they can respond. I want them to respond. I think they are good enough. I am just frustrated seeing the same stuff happen to this group over and over again. I can handle losing if we were beaten by a better side but I can't accept basically giving up, our pressure rating after quarter time suggests we basically rolled over and let them have the game. This is not acceptable. If we implemented poor strategies but gave great effort we still would've won that game. No coincidence as our effort dropped off the opposition got a run on.

 

[StCicatriz]

I agree with all of that. My weighting would probably be the same. I'm just firm on my opinion that the players need to be called out for this loss. They need to feel a huge level of responsibility for what happened on the weekend so they can respond. I want them to respond. I think they are good enough. I am just frustrated seeing the same stuff happen to this group over and over again. I can handle losing if we were beaten by a better side but I can't accept basically giving up, our pressure rating after quarter time suggests we basically rolled over and let them have the game. This is not acceptable. If we implemented poor strategies but gave great effort we still would've won that game. No coincidence as our effort dropped off the opposition got a run on.

spot on

hopefully this is a line in the sand moment. given the media on the saints website and the attention they've given it, i'd say from the top down and bottom up, it's just not tolerated.

i sense huge ground swell of "i've just had enough of their ******* s**t"

 

[George]

spot on

hopefully this is a line in the sand moment. given the media on the saints website and the attention they've given it, i'd say from the top down and bottom up, it's just not tolerated.

i sense huge ground swell of "i've just had enough of their ******* sh*t"

I am in that boat. I have had enough of us falling asleep during games.

I hope it spurs us on but I've seen enough of it by now to not hold my breath on it. It's a shame that if we're in a similar position against the Crows on Monday night we can't even relax, knowing that six goals up isn't enough. Sad reality of it all.

 

[sasaint]

I agree with all of that. My weighting would probably be the same. I'm just firm on my opinion that the players need to be called out for this loss. They need to feel a huge level of responsibility for what happened on the weekend so they can respond. I want them to respond. I think they are good enough. I am just frustrated seeing the same stuff happen to this group over and over again. I can handle losing if we were beaten by a better side but I can't accept basically giving up, our pressure rating after quarter time suggests we basically rolled over and let them have the game. This is not acceptable. If we implemented poor strategies but gave great effort we still would've won that game. No coincidence as our effort dropped off the opposition got a run on.

Couldn't agree more. The majority of the players have to have their feet held to the flames over this match. It was hard to find a 4 quarter player last week. I think we can relate a lot of the upside we have seen so far this season to the coaching group, not just Ratts, so the players have to rise to the challenge.

 

[StCicatriz]

I am in that boat. I have had enough of us falling asleep during games.

I hope it spurs us on but I've seen enough of it by now to not hold my breath on it. It's a shame that if we're in a similar position against the Crows on Monday night we can't even relax, knowing that six goals up isn't enough. Sad reality of it all.

the thing that shits me most. is if we do what we should have, we would be 5-1 right now.

*IN 5 AND 1.

people would be talking about us liek they are port adelaide now.

instead we get a once in 10 year event hit twice in one *in year. because they soft as * over pampered campaigners cant be ****ed putting in.

go to adelaide, beat them and we should be 6 and 1.

that means only 3 more wins and we make finals!!!

 

[plugger66]

a 2.5 hour commute on game day is a good outcome?

not even WAFL clubs do that sh*t when they go and play in the country. it's just madness.

Got to be honest and say you have little idea. We were allowed to bring as many as we wanted and also have the whole resort to ourselves. Other clubs couldn’t bring as many as they wanted and have to share. Now they are trying to get more people in whilst we are sitting back laughing. Seems like a genius move now that we have 10 weeks to go yet you find the only fault. Typical.

 

[plugger66]

I agree with all of that. My weighting would probably be the same. I'm just firm on my opinion that the players need to be called out for this loss. They need to feel a huge level of responsibility for what happened on the weekend so they can respond. I want them to respond. I think they are good enough. I am just frustrated seeing the same stuff happen to this group over and over again. I can handle losing if we were beaten by a better side but I can't accept basically giving up, our pressure rating after quarter time suggests we basically rolled over and let them have the game. This is not acceptable. If we implemented poor strategies but gave great effort we still would've won that game. No coincidence as our effort dropped off the opposition got a run on.

Clearly you first saying was 100% the players fault. If you said anything else there would not be 5 pages of crap. Man up please. I hope we are allowed to say it to a mod.

 

[StCicatriz]

Got to be honest and say you have little idea. We were allowed to bring as many as we wanted and also have the whole resort to ourselves. Other clubs couldn’t bring as many as they wanted and have to share. Now they are trying to get more people in whilst we are sitting back laughing. Seems like a genius move now that we have 10 weeks to go yet you find the only fault. Typical.

are you really prioritizing having others in the hub, over just making sure those that are playing have a better match day prep?

 

[George]

the thing that shits me most. is if we do what we should have, we would be 5-1 right now.

fu**IN 5 AND 1.

people would be talking about us liek they are port adelaide now.

instead we get a once in 10 year event hit twice in one fu**in year. because they soft as fu** over pampered campaigners cant be f’ed putting in.

go to adelaide, beat them and we should be 6 and 1.

that means only 3 more wins and we make finals!!!

I try and justify our 3-3 record by saying to myself that we should've lost to Richmond and we should've lost to the Bulldogs at the start of the year. If anything it makes me feel better knowing we blew two golden opportunities. And also the fact that I probably would've taken 3-3 at the start of the year.

I still think we are still a shot for 5th-8th but it's frustrating knowing we should be entrenched in the eight right now.

 

[StCicatriz]

Clearly you first saying was 100% the players fault. If you said anything else there would not be 5 pages of crap. Man up please. I hope we are allowed to say it to a mod.

mate when have you ever said you were wrong. you can't even offer up your own opinion. it's always as vague and as non-committal as possible. your sole purpose here is to discredit other peoples opinion.

perhaps it just was semantics. i think everyone got there in the end!

 

[George]

Clearly you first saying was 100% the players fault. If you said anything else there would not be 5 pages of crap. Man up please. I hope we are allowed to say it to a mod.

You get 5 pages of crap because people like you can't be bothered to discuss with any nuance.

 

[StCicatriz]

I try and justify our 3-3 record by saying to myself that we should've lost to Richmond and we should've lost to the Bulldogs at the start of the year. If anything it makes me feel better knowing we blew two golden opportunities. And also the fact that I probably would've taken 3-3 at the start of the year.

I still think we are still a shot for 5th-8th but it's frustrating knowing we should be entrenched in the eight right now.

same. my worry is some of the bottom teams go on a golden run. for example WCE.

they could win every one of their games at home.

 

[plugger66]

are you really prioritizing having others in the hub, over just making sure those that are playing have a better match day prep?

Yes I am. Obviously you don’t know how players feel and fair enough. You haven’t lived with them like I have over 17 years. Match day is one day. Being happy for the other 6 shits on anything on match day. It’s really a naive comment or it’s a comment of a person who needs to find fault with the club. We think the hub is that good we chose to come back instead of staying in Adelaide for 5 days. Will love the response to that.

 

[StCicatriz]

if we are going to have a season of stupidity and blown chances, this is the year to do it. given how the season is panning out.

 

[George]

same. my worry is some of the bottom teams go on a golden run. for example WCE.

they could win every one of their games at home.

Yes and now the fact that we probably have to travel every week, or at least not play at Marvel again this year.

Maybe I need to change my perspective and think of this year as a project year. Playing 15 games interstate could fast track our development and finally rectify our issues of playing outside of Marvel. Not to mention the time the players will spend together.

And of course blowing two massive leads at least puts the spotlight on our inability to handle adversity within the game, maybe it is something we focus more on and if it didn't happen we could've been papering over the cracks somewhat, not realising it was actually a bigger issue than first thought.