Autopsy Round 6 2021: Hawks comeback from 32pts down, defeat Crows

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SammyC

Debutant
May 20, 2020
79
310
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Hawthorn
We've actually got some very good forwards.
It's the midfield that's letting the team down.

Lewis, Kosi, Breust, Wingard and Gunston - Moore/Brockman are handy.
But the supply is terribly inconsistent.
hard to tell on tv but seemed to still be more than a few times where Lewis or kosi didn’t lead at the kicker. Particularly on the turnover when a hit up lead or sideways lead to space would be easy to hit. They just seemed to for it long on their heads, more hang time and third opp player gets to the contest.

I’d hope the coaches are all over it but super frustrating as can burn east scoring opportunities, particularly against a good team.
 

HairyO

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Jul 13, 2015
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I use to think the same, but no longer do. Scrimshaw is a far more talented intercept marker than Birch. His kicking is good, but doesn't seem to get it as many times a game, and doesn't seem to make as many of those amazing kicks opening the game right up (maybe due to seeming to have less possessions). Both awesome players, but I think the comparison doesn't quite hold true any more.
Birchall Gibbo and Mitchell were our guys to get the ball out of defence.

Now we have Day Sicily Scrimshaw Impey CJ and Hardwick. So its shared around more.

Scrimshaw is better overhead, Birchall better kick. Sicily is the only one close to Birchall there.

Fully fit we arent winning a Grand Final yet but we will match it with the ones who will win.
 

TazHawk15

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Wingard and Worpels pressure/tackling in the last parts of the game were HUGE.
I agree with you about Chad but to my eye for someone as good as he can be, he does not do enough.

Sometimes I look at Chad and you can almost seeing him thinking “I need to do something”

In the words of a Great man ..............“Don’t think Chad, Doooo”
 

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grumbleguts

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Aug 14, 2011
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Birchall Gibbo and Mitchell were our guys to get the ball out of defence.

Now we have Day Sicily Scrimshaw Impey CJ and Hardwick. So its shared around more.

Scrimshaw is better overhead, Birchall better kick. Sicily is the only one close to Birchall there.

Fully fit we arent winning a Grand Final yet but we will match it with the ones who will win.
Only because it's round 6.
 

HAWKSBESTEVA

Club Legend
Jun 14, 2020
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I agree with you about Chad but to my eye for someone as good as he can be, he does not do enough.

Sometimes I look at Chad and you can almost seeing him thinking “I need to do something”

In the words of a Great man ..............“Don’t think Chad, Doooo”
What more do you want him to do? He gets burnt about 5 Times a game from his team mates when he is in a great position to set up or kick a goal.
 

MJA33

All Australian
Aug 19, 2013
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hard to tell on tv but seemed to still be more than a few times where Lewis or kosi didn’t lead at the kicker. Particularly on the turnover when a hit up lead or sideways lead to space would be easy to hit. They just seemed to for it long on their heads, more hang time and third opp player gets to the contest.

I’d hope the coaches are all over it but super frustrating as can burn east scoring opportunities, particularly against a good team.
The one time Lewis did to CJ was perfect forward play. Helps when CJ is streaming forward at him.
Our connection between mid - forward has been a issue for 2-3 years and is what we need to fix. So fast ball movement and the skill of kicking inside 50 will help this. Hope it is a focus as it’s a big weakness.
 

QuietB

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May 13, 2008
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The one time Lewis did to CJ was perfect forward play. Helps when CJ is streaming forward at him.
Our connection between mid - forward has been a issue for 2-3 years and is what we need to fix. So fast ball movement and the skill of kicking inside 50 will help this. Hope it is a focus as it’s a big weakness.
CJ streaming through the centre of the ground at full pace will have every single defender in the AFL shitting themselves
 

Hawker55

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Mar 17, 2011
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One thing I've taken out of the post game presser with Clarko that I love.

At half time, we were screwed. We could have stayed that way, like West Coast vs the Flogs.
But the coaching group kept our boys up and about, kept us mentally in the game.

Clarko acknowledged our 1 Quarter fade outs must be rectified. He mentioned our flat spot came at the wrong time (last quarter) vs Melbourne so we were unable to make it right.

He's not disconnected or in some dream land. The way the lads are staying in the contest shows they are playing for the coach and the club.
What I've realized in reflection today is that it's not one or two weak links in our side. When we have bad quarters it's because we collectively go missing.
If we can use the middle of the year to learn to put 4 consistent quarters together we can go as far as anyone else. We're only a game behind challenging for the 8.
I remember reading an interview with Hodge years ago where he basically said games are about managing momentum shifts. Maximising goals when you have it and minimising them when you don’t. The threepeat teams were great at having a 15 minute burst of 6 goals and then managing the rest of the game.

We will get there, a lot is to do with confidence and experience.
 

Strapping Young Lad

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Great win but felt we should have won by about 20 in the end.
Strangely enough, if you insert the usual or standard goal to behind ratio that sides would score atthat’s what we should’ve got.

16.1 is hard to combat.

If we’d kicked 6.2 in the last instead of 2.6 my heart wouldn’t have copped such a beating either.
 

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HAWKSBESTEVA

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Jun 14, 2020
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I think something that has been overlooked was Finn's job on Laird in the last quarter, kept him to 4 touches , 3 in the back half
Could be a good bit of confidence for him
Finn was important. Laird was torching us all game and probably would of had 40 touches if not for Finn locking him down. Must stay in the side. Our midfield looked much better in the 4th when Finn was in there. It allowed o’meara to be a lot more offensive instead of having to be the guy that tackles and runs back to cover his/ team mates opponents. Worpel Shiels and Finn as defensive mids make life for o’meara and titch so much easier. We get the best out of o’meara like that too.
 

eldorado

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If only exclamation marks delivered silverware.

Who even said "bottom 2 for next 3 years"?

Scrapping out a narrow win over last year's wooden-spooners at home has inflated some estimations of where we're at. A dicey free kick gets paid the other way at the end and the same names are doom-merchanting - just as they were mid-Match Day thread.
Hate to play the pessimist (that’s your job!) but not so sure that we are.

And it’d be a long term disaster if true.

Still desperately need a few influxes of top end draft talent to set us up for sustained success.
We'll end where we end.

If it's 3rd from the bottom, that's it.

If it's 9th, that's it.

We take the first round pick we get, and use it as best we can

It's the idea that finishing mid table would be 'a long term disaster' that is just ridiculous.

The culture of winning, and maybe even sneaking a final, is way more valuable than the mythical 'low draft pick flag'...where you sit near the bottom for x number of years, because, apparently, ONLY top 4 picks can help you make a premiership, while a pick 8 doesn't.


Somehow, this strange idea idea that you need to be really sh*t for years, accrue lots of low number picks (but remember, only one per round...there's no priority pick anymore, unless you're an AFL love child)...and then magically spring up to win the flag, seems to have taken hold, despite the fact that it has never happened (or only once, if you include Hawthorn..but that included 2 priority picks, and the ladder climb started in the second year)

Wherever we finish, we get a first round pick. The idea that showing improvement in a year would be "disastrous", because our number pick will be slightly higher is, frankly, nonsense. We improve by virtue and work, not by hoping that if we're are sh*t long enough, they will magically construct a contending team for us.

If we don't improve, why would good players stay? Why would other players want to come to us?

If we could improve to something like 9th this year, I would be happy...not bemoaning the fact that we really 'needed' to be crap again for our long term hopes
 
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Bugs1977

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Strangely enough, if you insert the usual or standard goal to behind ratio that sides would score atthat’s what we should’ve got.

16.1 is hard to combat.

If we’d kicked 6.2 in the last instead of 2.6 my heart wouldn’t have copped such a beating either.
I would've gladly taken 3.5 or 4.4. Any of those would've killed the game off a lot earlier.
 

xmarksthespot

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Aug 15, 2009
110
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You have to give our recruiters some credit, Kosi, Lewis, Hanrahan, and Moore which is a lot of our forward line and were not high picks (Jeka to come too).
Absolutely. I think it's no coincidence that all of those players have also spent some time developing at Box Hill. I think this opportunity to develop at the lower levels carries additional weight for late draftees (on the assumption that earlier draftees are more likely to be 'ready to go' straight out of the box).
 

xmarksthespot

Debutant
Aug 15, 2009
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I like Tim O’Brien and congratulations on a great game but he’s not a key position player. He just doesn’t have the body or strength. I see him rotating between half back and half forward as needed. He’s also been in our system for a very long time and has not been able to find consistency. I hope I’m wrong but at 27 I doubt he’s going to get much better at Hawthorn. Could be good at a contending team like Port.
He does manage to compete in the ruck however. I think Tim is deceptively stronger than he looks.
 

bris tarangau

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Aug 11, 2013
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Yes add in Morrison, Hardwick even Sicily. The media have a go at us for “not going to the draft” by not having used 1st round picks over the years. However they give us 0 credit for what we have actually picked in the draft from later picks and developed into solid AFL players.
Ssshh. Just keep it quiet and go about usual Hawks business. Nek minit ........
 

Strapping Young Lad

previously grumbleguts
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We'll end where we end.

If it's 3rd from the bottom, that's it.

If it's 9th, that's it.

We take the first round pick we get, and use it as best we can

It's the idea that finishing mid table would be 'a long term disaster' that is just ridiculous.

The culture of winning, and maybe even sneaking a final, is way more valuable than the mythical 'low draft pick flag'...where you sit near the bottom for x number of years, because, apparently, ONLY top 4 picks can help you make a premiership, while a pick 8 doesn't.


Somehow, this strange idea idea that you need to be really sh*t for years, accrue lots of low number picks (but remember, only one per round...there's no priority pick anymore, unless you're an AFL love child)...and then magically spring up to win the flag, seems to have taken hold, despite the fact that it has never happened (or only once, if you include Hawthorn..but that included 2 priority picks, and the ladder climb started in the second year)

Wherever we finish, we get a first round pick. The idea that showing improvement in a year would be "disastrous", because our number pick will be slightly higher is, frankly, nonsense. We improve by virtue and work, not by hoping that if we're are sh*t long enough, they will magically constuct a contending team for us.

If we don't improve, why would good players stay? Why would other players want to come to us?

If we could improve to something like 9th this year, I would be happy...not bemoaning the fact that we really 'needed' to be crap again for our long term hopes
I love this post.
 

rogiebear93

Norm Smith Medallist
May 17, 2017
7,002
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We'll end where we end.

If it's 3rd from the bottom, that's it.

If it's 9th, that's it.

We take the first round pick we get, and use it as best we can

It's the idea that finishing mid table would be 'a long term disaster' that is just ridiculous.

The culture of winning, and maybe even sneaking a final, is way more valuable than the mythical 'low draft pick flag'...where you sit near the bottom for x number of years, because, apparently, ONLY top 4 picks can help you make a premiership, while a pick 8 doesn't.


Somehow, this strange idea idea that you need to be really sh*t for years, accrue lots of low number picks (but remember, only one per round...there's no priority pick anymore, unless you're an AFL love child)...and then magically spring up to win the flag, seems to have taken hold, despite the fact that it has never happened (or only once, if you include Hawthorn..but that included 2 priority picks, and the ladder climb started in the second year)

Wherever we finish, we get a first round pick. The idea that showing improvement in a year would be "disastrous", because our number pick will be slightly higher is, frankly, nonsense. We improve by virtue and work, not by hoping that if we're are sh*t long enough, they will magically constuct a contending team for us.

If we don't improve, why would good players stay? Why would other players want to come to us?

If we could improve to something like 9th this year, I would be happy...not bemoaning the fact that we really 'needed' to be crap again for our long term hopes
No one has ever told Carlton that low picks mean success, because they've had a quarter of the last 20 Pick number 1s.
 

bris tarangau

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Aug 11, 2013
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We'll end where we end.

If it's 3rd from the bottom, that's it.

If it's 9th, that's it.

We take the first round pick we get, and use it as best we can

It's the idea that finishing mid table would be 'a long term disaster' that is just ridiculous.

The culture of winning, and maybe even sneaking a final, is way more valuable than the mythical 'low draft pick flag'...where you sit near the bottom for x number of years, because, apparently, ONLY top 4 picks can help you make a premiership, while a pick 8 doesn't.


Somehow, this strange idea idea that you need to be really sh*t for years, accrue lots of low number picks (but remember, only one per round...there's no priority pick anymore, unless you're an AFL love child)...and then magically spring up to win the flag, seems to have taken hold, despite the fact that it has never happened (or only once, if you include Hawthorn..but that included 2 priority picks, and the ladder climb started in the second year)

Wherever we finish, we get a first round pick. The idea that showing improvement in a year would be "disastrous", because our number pick will be slightly higher is, frankly, nonsense. We improve by virtue and work, not by hoping that if we're are sh*t long enough, they will magically constuct a contending team for us.

If we don't improve, why would good players stay? Why would other players want to come to us?

If we could improve to something like 9th this year, I would be happy...not bemoaning the fact that we really 'needed' to be crap again for our long term hopes
Excellent post!:thumbsu:
 

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