Autopsy Round 6 2021: Hawks comeback from 32pts down, defeat Crows

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Bugs1977

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We'll end where we end.

If it's 3rd from the bottom, that's it.

If it's 9th, that's it.

We take the first round pick we get, and use it as best we can

It's the idea that finishing mid table would be 'a long term disaster' that is just ridiculous.

The culture of winning, and maybe even sneaking a final, is way more valuable than the mythical 'low draft pick flag'...where you sit near the bottom for x number of years, because, apparently, ONLY top 4 picks can help you make a premiership, while a pick 8 doesn't.


Somehow, this strange idea idea that you need to be really sh*t for years, accrue lots of low number picks (but remember, only one per round...there's no priority pick anymore, unless you're an AFL love child)...and then magically spring up to win the flag, seems to have taken hold, despite the fact that it has never happened (or only once, if you include Hawthorn..but that included 2 priority picks, and the ladder climb started in the second year)

Wherever we finish, we get a first round pick. The idea that showing improvement in a year would be "disastrous", because our number pick will be slightly higher is, frankly, nonsense. We improve by virtue and work, not by hoping that if we're are sh*t long enough, they will magically constuct a contending team for us.

If we don't improve, why would good players stay? Why would other players want to come to us?

If we could improve to something like 9th this year, I would be happy...not bemoaning the fact that we really 'needed' to be crap again for our long term hopes
It seems that we'll find out soon enough if the constant finishing bottom 3 route works because that is exactly the path North Melbourne is on now. I don't think finishing as low as possible matters as much as the scouting department / list manger that brings them in and then obviously the coaches that polish off all the rough edges once they hit AFL level. I mean look at how many high end draft picks GC and GWS have ruined between themselves over the last 10 years for evidence of this and then look at how many mid to late 1st round picks teams like Hawthorn, Geelong and other recent contenders have groomed to become good / great AFL level players over the years.

If anything the lower you finish on the ladder it really just allows you to bring in the most talented 17-18 year olds that are still far from finished products who still have a lot of work to be done to become the players that their raw talent promises they will become. Having said all this it has and always will be paramount that no matter where your selecting there's so much more that goes into a young kid being successful than just the talent alone (ie work ethic, team fit, support system, team culture, injury free run and a sh*t load of luck).
 

rei154

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Just rewatched the third quarter Timmy tackle- absolutely correct those who were saying he shouldn't cop the flak for it. I thought Shiels had done more than he had and I thought the play was a little slower than it was. Really poor effort from Shiels there.
 

Changa10

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Pathetic crowd at the ground today, I thought Tasmanians loved footy.
BOOOOO!

Was at the game. It was actually pretty close to a capacity crowd with the restrictions in place. It might have looked a little worse as a couple of sections of the ground are general admission only (which none are allowed).
To Mr daniel23 complaining about the crowd today, Covid restrictions only allowed just over 9000 there today, I would of thought it was close to the mark

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Was going to reply in depth, but you lads/lasses have pretty much covered it. Most sports here in Tassie are still restricted to a maximum of 1,000 at outdoor events. There were no standing room tickets sold, and seating was either 50% or I think maybe 75%, so at the end of the day I doubt we could have had many more attend.

Watching live I'm a little surprised at the Cousins remarks, as I thought he worked really hard all day. Got some rewards for his efforts late in the game, which were well deserved.

Our turnovers coming out of defence and through the middle was what put us 32 points down. Haven't looked at the stats, but I suspect over half of their first 15 goals were a direct result of a turnover. Keays and Laird killed us in the first half, but Jaegar and even Tom lifted in the second half. Tom Phillips works hard, but boy does he make some bad decisions or poor use of the footy. Reckon he is still settling in, so happy to give him more time though.

Was great watching live for the first time for over a year, and I'm excited by what the team is trying to do. We can't execute it properly yet, but the intent is great.

Being in front when the siren sounded made for a much more pleasant car trip back to Hobart too!
 

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Roddy

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Geez our footskills at time are deplorable. Shiels, JOM, Cuz, Morrison, Frost, CJ, Phillips, Worps, BB, etc all kicked shockers under no pressure. Is there no-one at BHH knocking down the door that has A grade disposal?
As I said in the gameday thread, our ability to precision-pinpoint an opposition player amid a sea of team mates, especially in the f50 arc, is unrivalled...
 

Rhayader

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Yes add in Morrison, Hardwick even Sicily. The media have a go at us for “not going to the draft” by not having used 1st round picks over the years. However they give us 0 credit for what we have actually picked in the draft from later picks and developed into solid AFL players.
Pretty sure they mentioned it multiple times in the game coverage yesterday in regards to the forwards? And anyway, who cares about media credit? You know it, enjoy it!
 

Billyc

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Is anyone else not overly impressed with Mitchell's game at the moment? I know he gets plenty, but I just think he is wasting stacks of it and his possessions slows us down. Either does a nothing sideways kick, or handballs to a player in traffic.

I actually thought Omeara, Worpel and Cousins worked well together in the last and probably won it for us. Mitchell's disposal and decision making is still way off 2018 form and is having those games opposition supporters love to heckle him bout. High possession, little impact.
He is copping the hard tag every week which enormously helps the others in the middle.
 

burner1

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Geez our footskills at time are deplorable. Shiels, JOM, Cuz, Morrison, Frost, CJ, Phillips, Worps, BB, etc all kicked shockers under no pressure. Is there no-one at BHH knocking down the door that has A grade disposal?
Downie has the skills and bramble is clean but that’s about it for guys in midfield.

Reckon improvement largely comes in next 12 months from moving back flankers up the ground as day, Sicily, DGB find way back into side (plus Gunston cruising around forward line). Over a 2-3 windowhopefully we find some mids with foot skills in the draft. Seamus is meant to be a good kick but not sure we’ll see him this year.
 

Billyc

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Downie has the skills and bramble is clean but that’s about it for guys in midfield.

Reckon improvement largely comes in next 12 months from moving back flankers up the ground as day, Sicily, DGB find way back into side (plus Gunston cruising around forward line). Over a 2-3 windowhopefully we find some mids with foot skills in the draft. Seamus is meant to be a good kick but not sure we’ll see him this year.
Agree. Our best ball users and most dynamic/damaging players are not playing in the most damaging part of the ground. Our challenge is to develop at least some of CJ, Day, Scrimshaw, Impey (and Downie in time) to play further up field so they are kicking the ball inside 50. Whether we can do so will play a large part in how quickly we can improve as a side as the pure midfield cupboard is pretty bare.
 

VandoHawk

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The Crows board are screaming about being robbed by the umps, I honestly didn't see that. Think they are referring to the front on contact decision that got us that late free kick. Looked like an obvious free to me? Thoughts?
Personally I think they just should have kicked straighter.

We’ve been on the end of so many bad decisions this year that I’ve become desensitised to it. Looked like front on contact but Himmelberg seemed to have eyes for the ball.
 

TazHawk15

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The Crows board are screaming about being robbed by the umps, I honestly didn't see that. Think they are referring to the front on contact decision that got us that late free kick. Looked like an obvious free to me? Thoughts?
Free kick every day of the week.

If they had been playing the Bulldogs it would have been 2 free kicks.
 

Davo23

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That was a really good win, no matter how you look at it.
The players could easily have given up, especially with the opposition kicking goal after goal

1. I wish I had gone: I had the opportunity, but I can‘t afford to have 14 days in quarantine.

2. My punishment was to listen to Z standard commentary from King & Russell. Even Jason is painful these days as he makes so much effort to seem unbiased, he seems to support the opposition.

3. A comeback from 32 points is based on a supreme effort, and never giving up. That’s the Hawthorn I’ve always loved: it doesn’t matter if you’re Lethal Leigh or Normie Bussell (look him up!), if the effort is there, you have a chance. And it’s pleasing that the effort’s been there in every game this year.

4. I don’t individualise players, it’s a team effort, and we win or lose as a team. You can see what the teams trying to do, and individual players only combine to make the whole.

5. And it’s a pity Taylor Walker caught the early flight home, missed a great last quarter.


Stick with us: with Clarko in charge, we’re going in the right direction.
 

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rogiebear93

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Free kick every day of the week.

If they had been playing the Bulldogs it would have been 2 free kicks.
Pretty sure you have to rotate your body, if you make even the slightest bit of contact while facing the opponent you're trying to spoil it's front on contact. If you rotate in mid air and spoil with your back to them it's play on.

It was a tough free because the Adelaide player did spoil it well, all ball with his fist, but he still ran into him front on which is a free kick every day of the week.
 

Mitchell Madness

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Pretty sure you have to rotate your body, if you make even the slightest bit of contact while facing the opponent you're trying to spoil it's front on contact. If you rotate in mid air and spoil with your back to them it's play on.

It was a tough free because the Adelaide player did spoil it well, all ball with his fist, but he still ran into him front on which is a free kick every day of the week.
It was almost identical to Morrison on petracca v Melbourne.
It's a crap rule, it is the rule though. You look at the player, even if you spoil it'll be a free
 

eldorado

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The front on contact rule is a bit on the nose, because the game has always been 360 degrees. You can attack the ball from any direction.

The 'front-on' contact rule implies that, if contact happens; the guy running with the flight of the ball has 'less' of a right to go for the ball than the guy attacking it from the opposite direction.

But, looking at this specific one, he made a great spoil, with eyes on the ball, but after that, his arm hit Timmy high in the face. If he had just got the ball, the Adelaide fans would have a point.

This rule has been adjudicated so poorly over the years; who could forget Josh Gibson being penalised in the prelim against Port for 'front-on' contact, after he made a perfect spoil. Just running back into a pack with an arm up seemed to become an automatic free against. It seems that over the years many umpire have forgotten that the guy running with the flight is actually allowed to contest if he does it right.

And besides, we got the free after being reemed by umpires way too often, so i really don't care if the decision was right or wrong. We won, eat my fat one, Crows...
 
Last edited:

WillowSF

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As I said in the gameday thread, our ability to precision-pinpoint an opposition player amid a sea of team mates, especially in the f50 arc, is unrivalled...

Geez our footskills at time are deplorable. Shiels, JOM, Cuz, Morrison, Frost, CJ, Phillips, Worps, BB, etc all kicked shockers under no pressure. Is there no-one at BHH knocking down the door that has A grade disposal?
Agree. If you can’t kick, in the future we should pass on recruiting many of these type of players unless there work-rate & pressure is A-grade. Elite kicking is the key to success. I’m honestly not seeing the green shoots. Overall our recruiting & trading has been very ordinary since the end of the 2016 season.
 

Pessimistic

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That was a really good win, no matter how you look at it.
The players could easily have given up, especially with the opposition kicking goal after goal

1. I wish I had gone: I had the opportunity, but I can‘t afford to have 14 days in quarantine.

2. My punishment was to listen to Z standard commentary from King & Russell. Even Jason is painful these days as he makes so much effort to seem unbiased, he seems to support the opposition.

3. A comeback from 32 points is based on a supreme effort, and never giving up. That’s the Hawthorn I’ve always loved: it doesn’t matter if you’re Lethal Leigh or Normie Bussell (look him up!), if the effort is there, you have a chance. And it’s pleasing that the effort’s been there in every game this year.

4. I don’t individualise players, it’s a team effort, and we win or lose as a team. You can see what the teams trying to do, and individual players only combine to make the whole.

5. And it’s a pity Taylor Walker caught the early flight home, missed a great last quarter.


Stick with us: with Clarko in charge, we’re going in the right direction.
At least they didnt disrespec the anthem this time
 

Changa10

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The Crows board are screaming about being robbed by the umps, I honestly didn't see that. Think they are referring to the front on contact decision that got us that late free kick. Looked like an obvious free to me? Thoughts?
Clear free kick. Had no eyes for the ball at all, just threw his arms up in hope and took out the Hawks player whilst doing so.

The umpires missed a few either way yesterday. Overall I felt they were probably the best we have had this year, so perhaps that justifies the Crows Board anger?

They should be angrier about Keays missing a sitter from almost straight in front.
This, they also had a chance from the pocket that they missed late, but their good goal kicking had to end at some stage. Came when they got tired.
 

rogiebear93

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You don’t think the game has significantly improved in 2021 compared to the previous 3+ seasons? This has created much quicker ball movement, it’s a great rule change

The medical sub rule is however stupid. Not as stupid as Adelaide’s use of it though
How's it been good? Hawthorn have been better at clawing back leads than the average team this year, but most of the rest have let margins get away from them. To me floggings don't make for good watching and there have already been plenty this season, imagine what it'll be like when 10 teams put their cue in the rack for the rest of the season.
 

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