Autopsy Round 6, 2021: Port Adelaide v St.Kilda

[plugger66]

The bomb it in game plan seems to work for other teams too - maybe that’s why we’re doing it but our forwards don’t seem to be as effective getting the ball to ground like usual which what is making it so easy for players to intercept.

I think If you look at vision that shows us running ahead of theplay, this is where we are going wrong. Is that what one way runners means? I’ve always wondered what people mean when they say that. That needs to change if so.

Yep we are certainly one way runners at the moment.

 

[PostmanBish]

You group them so when you have the ball coming forward they can actually lead into different areas. If they already in those areas then when leading they will be to far up the ground. I imagine membery and say Marshall lead to various positions and king stays at home.

Can't help thinking that Roma's ability to take a contested grab would be better left home, and have King leading out.

 

[LiterallyNobody]

Yep we are certainly one way runners at the moment.

Thanks. I wasn’t sure coz there’s a lot of footy vernacular I’m not aware of. It looks horrible when they highlight it on shows like OTC and stuff. hopefully we can do something about it.

 

[StCicatriz]

I'm watching the game for the first time properly. (When it was live, I had to do with sneaky glances during family BBQ) I just got through the first half.

My observations:
Based on the first two quarters you'd say Joyce, Carlisle, Long, King and maybe Hill and Clarke were the worst. All had a hand in breaking down Saints attacks and handing goals to Port.

Zac Jones went alright, I saw a lot of bile spat his way on earlier posts here so he must have had a puuuutrid second half because he got his hands on the ball a lot and did well especially in the first quarter.

Marshall does so much for our side he's definitely our MVP.

Carlisle up forward was just a naive and pointless tactical move. I like him but I think he's done or can only be used sparingly and only in defence. He looks like Cowboy Neale out there - I mean the current version unfortunately. When Ryder comes in and allows Marshall to come into I50, we can let Jake spend matchtime blowing his salary in the TAB in his filthy cardie.

No but seriously, Ryder and Marshall in the team from rd 1 would have given us a very different season. C'est la vie. The lesson here is we need to find a goalkicking ruck replacement for Ryder pronto that has plenty of years in the AFL ahead of him.

That moment where Howard went for the hanger and have Boak a goal and Coff grabbed Howard, don't think it was agro. Seemed to be saying "Don't worry, it's done now focus we need you back in the game" type of thing. Whatever it was I liked it, only strengthens my feeling Coff should be in the leadership group.

Why the fu** do all the commentators have such a hard on for Chas Dixon? Yes he's got a beard and tatts, so does my local barrista. They chuckle away, acting like he's some interesting character like Robbie Muir, you can tell they all fantasize about watching him "entertain" their wives, it's a bit pathetic really.

Port are really well drilled. In fact everyone looks well drilled compared to us, who don't look drilled at all. It's inexcusable for us to be so soft and slow, but I'm really hoping that we are going to get started now and have just started slowly with the aim of leaking at finals time. Still, we don't seem to know what we're doing, which is alarming.

Why when we are coming out of D50 do we always kick to a risky contest near the boundary? Do you think we could occasionally attack the centre - without turning it over? It really shouldn't be hard to do for AFL standard players.

Too much jogging around and not enough hunger at the moment in general from Saints players. Not getting anymore finals footy that way, you pack of amateurs; step up or step off. Sinclair is a prime example, but it's rampant throughout the team, they're playing like they've all got Covid.

I'm a massive critic of Seb Ross, so I'll admit he played a great first half for all the good it did. I still would trade him before any of his teammates, but it's good that he had a couple of quarters where his disposal didn't give the oppo control of the game.

Max King was awful and may need some time in the VFL to get his mojo back. Maybe playing Hawks and a tantalising Battle Of The Kings will be enough to refresh him. Hope so because he is costing us dear right now.

I didn't see the point of bringing Joyce in. We needed more runners, not an anonymous Gaelic beanpole. Still good on Ratts for trying to blood a new kid, we need something. Maybe he'll improve.

Mackenzie is making the most of his opportunity, just like Ed Phillips did. Oh. Shop window time unless he actually gets past that stage and becomes required. But Dan just shave your head like GAJnr did and have done with it, it's no shame to go bald early in life and you look a loser trying to push the fringe down over your forehead. Focus on the contest and leave your hair alone. You and Battle too, shave those moustaches, they're not hip or cool you look like 1970s pedos.

I was feeling like we can't even beat Hawthorn the way we're going but after watching that and picturing Ryder in, I'm feeling dangerously optimistic that we might be about to replicate our dazzling and still talked about 2020 winning streak of rds 7-10. Boy oh boy, I'm a sucker for punishment.

Final point: I really feel bad for BLong, but I feel he is headed to the VFL for a long time until he wins back his teammates' trust. Appauling form right now, don't know what's happening with him but he's right on the precipice watching his AFL career fizzle and die. I hope he does what he needs to fight on, before he becomes this year's Mav Weller.

Jones only touched it 10 times, he was our worst performed mid. Bytel subbed in for Hill (sometime in the 2nd half), had it 6 times...

that's just not good enough for a full time inside mid. there's no sugar coating it, Jones has been terrible.

Clark accumulates quite well, but his defensive efforts are poor and it appears he does not know how to closely check an opponent.

 

[plugger66]

Can't help thinking that Roma's ability to take a contested grab would be better left home, and have King leading out.

I suppose he has hardly played forward but that might be what they do. The only thing is Marshall looks likes he loves leading out. King doesn’t really seem to want to.

 

[LiterallyNobody]

I suppose he has hardly played forward but that might be what they do. The only thing is Marshall looks likes he loves leading out. King doesn’t really seem to want to.

Is King shot of confidence atm? He didn’t look shot of confidence in the west coast game or the first qtr of Richmond but since then I dunno. I just wish there was an internal explanation for all of this. I’d almost welcome am off field drama because at least it’s distracting us. Ross didn’t let this s**t get to us in 2009-10 coz of the bubble and the players seemed a slightly more mature hardened group than this current crop of mainly inexperienced youngsters.

 

[plugger66]

Is King shot of confidence atm? He didn’t look shot of confidence in the west coast game or the first qtr of Richmond but since then I dunno. I just wish there was an internal explanation for all of this. I’d almost welcome am off field drama because at least it’s distracting us. Ross didn’t let this sh*t get to us in 2009-10 coz of the bubble and the players seemed a slightly more mature hardened group than this current crop of mainly inexperienced youngsters.

Seem to really lack a group of leaders. They had so many back then and some were real hard men like Lyon Lenny roo ball bj. Even Joey and dal and Blake.

 

[LiterallyNobody]

Seem to really lack a group of leaders. They had so many back then and some were real hard men like Lyon Lenny roo ball bj. Even Joey and dal and Blake.

Yeah the leadership thing has been brought up a bunch too. You know who leaders generally are? Experienced hardened campaigners like Hanners Gears and Frawley.

 

[PostmanBish]

I suppose he has hardly played forward but that might be what they do. The only thing is Marshall looks likes he loves leading out. King doesn’t really seem to want to.

Agreed - Marshall's tank certainly suggests he's suited to lead-up (and we know he does it pretty well), but right now, if nothing we've been is working, I say we need to change it up a bit (a lot?) to try and find something which does. Worth seeing if having King lead from the top of the square to 35-40 out gets him any more ball, with Roma back in the square to try and clunk a couple of long ones is at least a changeup from "kick it on King's head and hope he figures it out"

 

[The Punter]

Seem to really lack a group of leaders. They had so many back then and some were real hard men like Lyon Lenny roo ball bj. Even Joey and dal and Blake.

I'm going to flog the dead horse - we had leaders because Grant Thomas had implemented a clear and successful strategy to develop leaders.

 

[plugger66]

I'm going to flog the dead horse - we had leaders because Grant Thomas had implemented a clear and successful strategy to develop leaders.

You still need to be that sort of person. The only real leaders seem to be some of the injured ones.

 

[FQFjt]

To be honest nearly every side is kicking it long to a pack from full back. Rather that with the new kick in than kicking 20 to a pocket when he could have run that far.

It's definitely one way out of defence, and is used very often. But as with any set play, predictability is its major weakness, and you need to mix it up. I don't have any stats, but my memory tells me that we barely ever mix it up.

These are the options:

1. Long bomb to a contest.

Pros: maximum distance from goal, and if you can take a mark or get clean possession, then you're well on your way to attack (provided you have lots of support runners, hard running, linking up, and moving the ball smartly, at angles, etc. etc. - hardly a given with us at the moment).

Cons: high chance of a turnover or a stoppage, especially if you don't have very good contested marking options or the opposition does. If there is a turnover, it's practically undefendable, and almost guarantees a shot on goal.

2. Short kick to the pocket

Pros: very unlikely to result in a turnover. Can allow for a switch if you set up for it.

Cons: although the immediate turnover is unlikely, the next possession may very well end up that same long kick to a contest, so you might be right back to where you started (see above). And if you don't look to pull of a switch, you can easily get boxed in by a good defensive unit.

3. Hit up a player 40-50m from goal who is alone

Pros: this can be very effective, as a mark from this spot opens up the entire field and gives you lots of different avenues forward.

Cons: worst possible place for a turnover so you would only ever take this option if it was a certain uncontested mark, and it requires a good kicker because anything too wide or too high and you're stuffed.


Ideally, you want to mix these up, and that's what most teams try and do. As I said, if for nothing else, it spreads defences a bit wider to cover all of the options.

We, on the other hand, are painfully predictable, and take the long kick no matter what, even if there is no one there to take the contested mark, and even if a dominant opposition player is right there as well. I mean, we were taking this kick to bloody Paul Hunter. At the moment I would say the only player on our team who is a better than even chance to take that mark is Marshall, and he has played 2 games all year.

In fact, I would say that the only reason Howard is taking our kick ins is because he has a nice big kick so can execute option 1. But what this means is (1) we eliminate the third option entirely, because his kicking is not good enough for it; and worse (2) we instantly telegraph to the opposition as soon as Howard takes the ball that we are going long. It all makes it SO easy to defend against.

 

[FQFjt]

Is King shot of confidence atm? He didn’t look shot of confidence in the west coast game or the first qtr of Richmond but since then I dunno. I just wish there was an internal explanation for all of this. I’d almost welcome am off field drama because at least it’s distracting us. Ross didn’t let this sh*t get to us in 2009-10 coz of the bubble and the players seemed a slightly more mature hardened group than this current crop of mainly inexperienced youngsters.

I think the most likely explanation is that King doesn't have the conditioning to play this leading game all day. I would also hazard a guess that he got through his entire junior career just jumping over opposition defenders without much leading required.

 

[Mat Mann]

Agreed. I don’t mind. I’ve been a huge advocate for him playing and finding form in the AFL. That won’t change until he finds form - to call his career over as some morons here are is ludicrous. He’s 28 not 33. Ffs


But I really don’t want him anywhere near it if he’s not well. Rest up until you are ready Bradley.

we have no one to replace him, Kent or Conolly, neither are appealing options.

Yep, hard to replace his 10 possessions in each of the last two games, a kid coming in from the reserves couldn't possibly get 2 or 3 possessions a quarter.

I think you missed the sarcasm and spin on positivity as were were having a bit of a laugh and a joke at that point

 

[Yawkey way]

Just for my football education, can someone provide an explantion/rationale for grouping forwards, especially grouping marking forwards?

It’s a forward version of the huddle.

 

[Yawkey way]

They were virg half in half out. Hill didn’t spread enough and Long was indecisive.

Long absolutely shouldn’t have tried a 40m depth kick with a 1.5m window, that was dumb.

I’ve watched it several times, what long did is part of our problem we need to give the ball first time without hesitation.

Hill will show him a clean pair of heals it only seems like the defender has some chance of stopping him. Someone has posted Garry ayres speech at 3/4 time, what’s interesting apart from the passion is he’s talking about sandys inability to defend if port look inside and give it first time, run the angles they can’t handle it, they want to defend down the line and he’s 100% right.

 

[pebblesofsand]

I disagree. Long's disposal has never been good. His handballing has been good mostly and sometimes he does some amazing kicks that trick us into thinking he's an ok kick but on the whole his disposal is average.

I think the issue is that both Long (and to a lesser extent Battle) aren't as good as many on here think they are. Both show a bit, have good traits but like hundreds before them are missing other skills to make them really shine.

Better than Aaron Siposs, not as good as Jason Blake.

 

[gringo2011]

Given how much we were down by at that point, it might also be that Long was getting worried about how poorly he was playing so went into self preservation mode and gave himself the stat when what we needed no matter the scoreline was for the best team decision to be made.

My son plays soccer and I was watching this other team playing the first 10 minutes of absolutely pressuring every touch. After that they dropped back to normal but they'd condition our players to have pressure on them. They kept making mistakes without even needing to keep it up. It’s easy to do to St Kilda as well.

Have you been to training much. Job has and denies what you are saying and how do you know we want our forwards in a bunch. I’ve never read that. You are really on a role even if you don’t have the facts you are going for it. By the way why you quoted my post and then went on that rant confuses me. My comments had nothing to do with what you said.

Just repeating what watchers have said on here. I don’t know Job but he sounds odd.

 

[phantom13]

I think the issue is that both Long (and to a lesser extent Battle) aren't as good as many on here think they are. Both show a bit, have good traits but like hundreds before them are missing other skills to make them really shine.

Better than Aaron Siposs, not as good as Jason Blake.

Battle has more “potential” than Blake did but hasn’t really been allowed to show it with being a mr fix it a such a young age.

 

[Pardon me]

Does Battle replace Carlisle permanently moving forward?

 

[AirWinmar]

I’ve watched it several times, what long did is part of our problem we need to give the ball first time without hesitation.

Hill will show him a clean pair of heals it only seems like the defender has some chance of stopping him. Someone has posted Garry ayres speech at 3/4 time, what’s interesting apart from the passion is he’s talking about sandys inability to defend if port look inside and give it first time, run the angles they can’t handle it, they want to defend down the line and he’s 100% right.

I would guess this is also happening because players are told to take the more direct option when they can

 

[AirWinmar]

It’s a forward version of the huddle.

Problem is, being we kick it on Kings head every time the opposition isn't falling for it

 

[plugger66]

My son plays soccer and I was watching this other team playing the first 10 minutes of absolutely pressuring every touch. After that they dropped back to normal but they'd condition our players to have pressure on them. They kept making mistakes without even needing to keep it up. It’s easy to do to St Kilda as well.



Just repeating what watchers have said on here. I don’t knob Job but he sounds odd.

Jb. nothing wrong with forwards being in a group. Most clubs would do that. Doubt at training they then just bomb it to a group. Now if that what those famous track watchers said they are watching with zero eyes open.

 

[AirWinmar]

Re the long kick out, it can work a lot better but it's not just a matter of roosting it as far as you can. You need to still kick it to a good spot where you have a good chance to win it. Howard looks like he is at the driving range when he's kicking out

 

[plugger66]

Re the long kick out, it can work a lot better but it's not just a matter of roosting it as far as you can. You need to still kick it to a good spot where you have a good chance to win it. Howard looks like he is at the driving range when he's kicking out

Agreed but I do find it funny when people say don’t kick it to the opposition ruckman. Their ruckman is there because our ruckman is there and usually they can be the best option. Still rather it closer to the wing than that stupid kick to the pocket.