Review Round 6, 2023 - GWS vs. Brisbane Lions

[M Malice]

Richmond were at their most dominant until the 2018 season where they lost a Prelim to the American.

USA USA USA.

 

[martinson]

Is he playing within himself or is it the arrival of Ashcroft and Dunkley that has lessened his raw numbers output?

BTW I think spreading the load is a fantastic thing for September, we will be harder to shut down through the midfield.

He recognises that the more the load is spread across players with different attributes the more lethal we're going to be . He's done everything in footy ,won B/F's ,won a Brownlow , now Captain of a team. He wants a flag. To me he seems in tip top shape and is playing like a cruiser battleship. Just doing what he has to , honing his skills which we saw on full display against NM. And not getting himself knocked around too much like he has been in the past 2 seasons.

 

[M Malice]

This from an article on lions.com >

In 825 games Brisbane have been beaten in the team possession count by 97 possessions or more 53 times. The first 52 times they lost by an average of 64 points, and then there was Saturday’s visit to Canberra.
__________________________________________________

Is Chris Fagan revolutionising the way the game is played?

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

He's definitely showing signs of age, Richy was never lightning fast and he's probably lost a little bit more pace but he normally makes up for it with his positioning in defence. Sometimes on kick-ins, he resorts to the long bomb down the line, but when he plays smart and aggressively like he did yesterday he works to get that short 1-2 to clear the opposition's defensive press or picks out a difficult 30-40m kick that leads to us opening the corridor. Still in the Best 22 for mine.

I was at the game and in the first quarter Rich played right in front of me and what was noticeable was his physical presence.
He doesn’t get knocked off the line of the ball but knocks opponents out of the way.

 

[Grasshopper17]

LOL! I would be happy with a golden point win in the GF... preferably over a heartbroken Collingwood, Dogs, Demons or Tigers after we kicked the last 6 goals in the last 5 minutes of regulation time to even the scores.

BTW I know there are now no more GF replays but is it actually golden point or do you need to kick a golden goal to win?

I believe the Grand Final is 5 minutes each way plus time on, while the other finals are all 3 minutes each way plus time on. 3 minutes is a bloody lottery but anyway.

I believe golden point comes into it if scores are still level at the end of both 3 minutes periods. Play continues until the next score. You'd hope there isn't a howling gale to one end...

Not sure if this is the same in the Grand Final. They might go for two more 5 minute periods if they're still level there. But I don't know either way.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Score goes up, score goes down. Never a miscommunication. You can't explain that!

 

[M Malice]

I believe the Grand Final is 5 minutes each way plus time on, while the other finals are all 3 minutes each way plus time on. 3 minutes is a bloody lottery but anyway.

I believe golden point comes into it if scores are still level at the end of both 3 minutes periods. Play continues until the next score. You'd hope there isn't a howling gale to one end...

Not sure if this is the same in the Grand Final. They might go for two more 5 minute periods if they're still level there. But I don't know either way.

Thanks I didn't know it was 5 minutes each way and not straight into golden goal/point.

 

[Grasshopper17]

When did he say that Grassy? Recently? I'd love to read/watch it if you have a link.

Oh it was just in commentary when he was doing the Brisbane v Collingwood game on the ABC. Said it a few times, before/during/after the game.

It's funny how biased he is towards the Lions, it's quite bad to be honest, even his co-commentators have given up correcting him now when he says "we". But it's a bit of a square up for all the Vic bias we have to put up with so I'm happy to roll with it.

 

[Grasshopper17]

I'm in the camp of being happy with any win. And keeping our injury list somewhere where it is now would be an unbelievably outstanding outcome.

It's not much use smashing teams by 100 points at this stage of the season except for your percentage. Likewise who says 1 point wins can't be 'ruthless' .You might have had to be really ruthless at some point in the game to get that win.

Neale in particular is playing a bit within himself this year . Last year he wanted to win the Brownlow, this year he is focused on his leadership and the ultimate prize . Bringing on younger players who can take M/F minutes.

The finals is virtually a whole new season . What you did to get there is immaterial and you get no free shot at it because you've smashed the opposition during the year. The idea for us is to get the advantage of home finals and try to keep our list in the best physical and mental state possible.

I like the way we're going about it this year. Our list has more depth . I like the idea of resting players where appropriate . I'm happy to bank any win however we do it . Playing not so well and banking a win is awesome.

Whether we're good enough and fit enough in September is the question .

I think this is fair. I'm happy with a 1 point win if we've been behind all day. Like the Geelong game in 2019. We played so poorly that day (I thought) but the lads just refused to quit and in the last quarter they finally got some reward for effort.

It's games where we get out to 6-10 goal leads, and put the cue in the rack to only win by 2-3 goals that really get up my nose.

I genuinely believe we should be the fittest team in the comp given the conditions we have during our preseasons. And that means steamrolling teams in the back end of games: Collingwood-style comebacks when we look dead and buried, or destroying teams late after a tough tussle all day. Like the 01-04 team often did.

Yet drawing a "line of best fit" through our %'s for each quarter, currently we're 18th (after Round 5).

 

[Grasshopper17]

This from an article on lions.com >

In 825 games Brisbane have been beaten in the team possession count by 97 possessions or more 53 times. The first 52 times they lost by an average of 64 points, and then there was Saturday’s visit to Canberra.
__________________________________________________

Is Chris Fagan revolutionising the way the game is played?

We have been very much more of a kicking team in recent seasons - more than any other team.

I'd be interested to know what was the previous biggest possession deficit we'd ever had for a game we won.

Also, does anyone know or have handy the breakdown of scores from clearance/turnover/kick-in from Saturday? Recently we've been dominating scores from turnover but I have a feeling that might have flipped on Saturday?

 

[Nathan Barley]

I think this is fair. I'm happy with a 1 point win if we've been behind all day. Like the Geelong game in 2019. We played so poorly that day (I thought) but the lads just refused to quit and in the last quarter they finally got some reward for effort.

It's games where we get out to 6-10 goal leads, and put the cue in the rack to only win by 2-3 goals that really get up my nose.

I genuinely believe we should be the fittest team in the comp given the conditions we have during our preseasons. And that means steamrolling teams in the back end of games: Collingwood-style comebacks when we look dead and buried, or destroying teams late after a tough tussle all day. Like the 01-04 team often did.

Yet drawing a "line of best fit" through our %'s for each quarter, currently we're 18th (after Round 5).

Our lapses are clearly a mindset issue and with an average backline we can't really rely on them always getting on top

 

[Viceregal]

I'm in the camp of being happy with any win. And keeping our injury list somewhere where it is now would be an unbelievably outstanding outcome.

It's not much use smashing teams by 100 points at this stage of the season except for your percentage. Likewise who says 1 point wins can't be 'ruthless' .You might have had to be really ruthless at some point in the game to get that win.

Neale in particular is playing a bit within himself this year . Last year he wanted to win the Brownlow, this year he is focused on his leadership and the ultimate prize . Bringing on younger players who can take M/F minutes.

The finals is virtually a whole new season . What you did to get there is immaterial and you get no free shot at it because you've smashed the opposition during the year. The idea for us is to get the advantage of home finals and try to keep our list in the best physical and mental state possible.

I like the way we're going about it this year. Our list has more depth . I like the idea of resting players where appropriate . I'm happy to bank any win however we do it . Playing not so well and banking a win is awesome.

Whether we're good enough and fit enough in September is the question .

Now if only the GF was played at the home of the higher ranking participant then there would be a real reason to get that top spot in the home and away!

 

[dlanod]

This from an article on lions.com >

In 825 games Brisbane have been beaten in the team possession count by 97 possessions or more 53 times. The first 52 times they lost by an average of 64 points, and then there was Saturday’s visit to Canberra.
__________________________________________________

Is Chris Fagan revolutionising the way the game is played?

From the same article it names those who have kicked seven for us. Brown and Bradshaw, yep sure. Molloy, before I really got to see Lions games being still up in FNQ, but ok, fits. Voss - need to check out the highlights again, didn't remember it was that many. Brennan, that's my boy. ...and Merrett? Well, I'd completely forgotten that one.

Edit: Voss had four in the first quarter, and we had a 41-0 lead. Love the flashbacks.

 

[Sanchez365]

This from an article on lions.com >

In 825 games Brisbane have been beaten in the team possession count by 97 possessions or more 53 times. The first 52 times they lost by an average of 64 points, and then there was Saturday’s visit to Canberra.
__________________________________________________

Is Chris Fagan revolutionising the way the game is played?

The main part of this disposal difference is essentially how direct we seem to play as a football club. We are, and have played a kick heavy game for a number of years, and this year we seem to have taken to realise that uncontested disposals are not a super requirement for us to win a game of football.



These are our current disposal differences vs opposition so far this year. The results are even more dramatic if you exclude that white washing against Port (where I think its fair to say we weren't playing our preferred gamestyle).



Disposal count just isn't a great metric for our team, and to be honest the low disposal numbers should make anyone playing any fantasy sports think twice about picking a Brisbane Lion.

 

[rye]

This from an article on lions.com >

In 825 games Brisbane have been beaten in the team possession count by 97 possessions or more 53 times. The first 52 times they lost by an average of 64 points, and then there was Saturday’s visit to Canberra.
__________________________________________________

Is Chris Fagan revolutionising the way the game is played?

we've never been a high possession side under fagan due to generally having one of the best kick: handball ratios in the competition. nearly all of the disposal differential between GWS and us was through the signifiantly higher volume of handballs GWS had than us

clearances, tackles, pressure acts, contested possessions are more important metrics to be winning than raw possession count (i know we lost some of these to gws)

 

[Sanchez365]

We have been very much more of a kicking team in recent seasons - more than any other team.

I'd be interested to know what was the previous biggest possession deficit we'd ever had for a game we won.

Also, does anyone know or have handy the breakdown of scores from clearance/turnover/kick-in from Saturday? Recently we've been dominating scores from turnover but I have a feeling that might have flipped on Saturday?

These numbers are not available to the public as far as I am aware.

 

[Section 5]

I think this is fair. I'm happy with a 1 point win if we've been behind all day. Like the Geelong game in 2019. We played so poorly that day (I thought) but the lads just refused to quit and in the last quarter they finally got some reward for effort.

It's games where we get out to 6-10 goal leads, and put the cue in the rack to only win by 2-3 goals that really get up my nose.

I genuinely believe we should be the fittest team in the comp given the conditions we have during our preseasons. And that means steamrolling teams in the back end of games: Collingwood-style comebacks when we look dead and buried, or destroying teams late after a tough tussle all day. Like the 01-04 team often did.

Yet drawing a "line of best fit" through our %'s for each quarter, currently we're 18th (after Round 5).

It's not finished yet
Can we move off the bottom?

 

[Section 5]

My figures (on preview thread) over 4 games are very close to the 6 games posted by Sanchez 365. Image below.
I took out the 2 outlier games Port & North. One a big loss the other a big win.

Also, this year when we win the mark count, we have won the game. Thats quite likely to change though.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

These are interesting stats but I would like a quarter to quarter break down as we have been so up and down.

 

[lioninthesand]

Don't go along with that at all Lionsinthesand. No sane player wants to be dumped into the ground with no protection and hitting their head.

Lachie knew there was nothing he could do and was just going to hold the play up if the free went against him or hope for a ball up . IMO.

Just like no sane player would go back with the flight into on coming traffic? or pick up the ball and charge head first into someone to get a high freekick risking a neck injury? Or run full speed for a ball knowing the are going to smash into a fence or goal post?

Sorry but whether lachies was an example of this or not, going deadweight in a stand up tackle is already happening and will continue to evolve as part of the game, like every other way to draw free kick, that much I am sure of.

 

[briztoon]

Your optimistic case was how Anna Meares beat Victoria Pendleton for gold in the women's sprint cycling in 2012 Olympics.

Anna learnt to hold the bike totally stationary on the velodrome slope and won races with the tactic (opponent forced to the front, Anna behind in the control position).

She did not use that tactic in any international meets leading up the Olympics.

Can't remember if it was only used in the gold medal race or the whole meet.

But was a deliberate decision to keep her weapon secret.

There's an episode of Australian story about Anna. Definately worth the watch.

Track standing has been around for decades.

Have a feeling it’s now been banned at the Olympics and World Championships.

 

[McIvor]

Coaches votes were pretty weird for this game

VOTES
PLAYER (CLUB)
10
Charlie Cameron

23

Charlie Cameron

Age

29

Ht

180cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.1

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

3.7

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.2

5star

G

1.5

5star

D

9.6

2star

K

7.9

3star

HB

1.7

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.7

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

9.6

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

4.2

4star

M

1.4

2star

T

3.4

5star

G

1.2

4star

(BL)
7
Josh Kelly (GWS)
4
Jack Payne (BL)
3
Daniel Rich

10

Daniel Rich

Age

33

Ht

183cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.7

5star

K

12.6

5star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

3.2

5star

MG

430.3

5star

D

14.9

4star

K

13.1

5star

HB

1.8

1star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.0

2star

MG

384.3

5star

D

16.2

4star

K

10.4

4star

HB

5.8

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

5.2

5star

(BL)
2
Stephen Coniglio

3

Stephen Coniglio

Age

30

Ht

182cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.5

5star

K

13.0

5star

HB

11.5

5star

M

3.8

4star

T

4.7

5star

CL

4.7

5star

D

21.3

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

8.8

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

3.8

4star

CL

5.4

5star

D

19.2

5star

K

8.2

4star

HB

11.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.2

4star

CL

3.0

5star

(GWS)
2
Nick Haynes

19

Nick Haynes

Age

31

Ht

192cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.4

4star

K

11.4

4star

HB

4.9

4star

M

6.2

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

326.8

4star

D

17.4

4star

K

13.9

5star

HB

3.5

2star

M

8.0

5star

T

1.5

2star

MG

326.8

5star

D

7.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.2

4star

(GWS)
1
Brandon Starcevich

37

Brandon Starcevich

Age

24

Ht

187cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.2

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

185.3

3star

D

9.5

2star

K

7.3

3star

HB

2.3

2star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.1

3star

MG

187.9

3star

D

8.6

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

1.4

2star

T

1.8

4star

MG

181.2

3star

(BL)
1
Brent Daniels

16

Brent Daniels

Age

25

Ht

172cm

Wt

75kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

6.5

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.9

4star

G

0.4

3star

D

10.3

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

6.0

3star

M

1.9

2star

T

1.9

3star

G

0.0

1star

D

9.0

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

5.4

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

3.0

5star

G

0.8

4star

(GWS)

I suspect Kinglsey gave a lot of votes to his own players - at a guess 5. Charlie 4. Payne 3. Kelly 2. Haynes or Cogs 1. Daniels.

If that was teh case, can only assume Fages didnt rate Paynes game - 5 Charlie, 4 Kelly, 3, Rich, 2 Haynes or Cogs 1. Starce

I also could be completely wrong LOL

I watched Sunday Footy Show on Sunday night and my god that Nathan Brownes votes were terrible - Charlie 9, Kelly 8, Rich 7 and then Toby Green also 7 - he couldnt have watched the game if he's putting TOby Greene

4

Toby Greene

Age

30

Ht

182cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.7

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

10.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

3.0

5star

G

1.2

4star

D

17.5

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.8

4star

T

1.0

2star

G

2.3

5star

D

26.6

5star

K

12.4

5star

HB

14.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

3.6

5star

G

0.0

1star

in for votes.

 

[Denno]

Coaches votes were pretty weird for this game

VOTES
PLAYER (CLUB)
10
Charlie Cameron (BL)
7
Josh Kelly (GWS)
4
Jack Payne (BL)
3
Daniel Rich (BL)
2
Stephen Coniglio (GWS)
2
Nick Haynes (GWS)
1
Brandon Starcevich (BL)
1
Brent Daniels (GWS)

I suspect Kinglsey gave a lot of votes to his own players - at a guess 5. Charlie 4. Payne 3. Kelly 2. Haynes or Cogs 1. Daniels.

If that was teh case, can only assume Fages didnt rate Paynes game - 5 Charlie, 4 Kelly, 3, Rich, 2 Haynes or Cogs 1. Starce

I also could be completely wrong LOL

I watched Sunday Footy Show on Sunday night and my god that Nathan Brownes votes were terrible - Charlie 9, Kelly 8, Rich 7 and then Toby Green also 7 - he couldnt have watched the game if he's putting TOby Greene in for votes.

Swap those getting 3 & 4 around - therefore Fagan may not have rated Rich's game instead?

 

[Tom14]

These numbers are not available to the public as far as I am aware.

Locked in the Champion Data vault, only available if David King decides it is his favourite stat of the week. I'll be watching his purefooty show with Daniel Hoyne from Champion Data like a chump tomorrow to see if there are any crumbs of info about us.

 

[Tom14]

Kicking 2.7 in the last quarter was the biggest reason the margin wasn't bigger. Just as kicking 22.20 rather than 26.16 was why we didn't win by 100 last week. Pretty simple really.

Expected score ladder after rd 6 - our defence goes from being 11th on scoring to equal 6th. 3rd best attack too.

On expected score against we actually are marginally rated above melbourne. Not a perfect illustration as conversion is obviously part of the game - but reinforces that our opponents have been relatively accurate compared to expectation.