Autopsy Round 6 = Collingwood 85-109 Essendon

[Markfs]

i was watching ash barty play sabalenka

I didn't say he would be immune to criticism but rather insulated from it. So he feels it but not to the extent he might if on a greatly reduced salary. His passion for the game does seem reduced, and his comment regarding the worth of grand final wins to players and his use of hub life to excuse his disappointing 2019 performance only fuelled speculation that his determination has dropped a level since 2018. I would have thought that any highly skilled player at the peak of their form would be able to enjoy their football, even at a club like Collingwood. I bet Buckley or Robbie Flower still felt positive about their personal playing experience despite playing in weak teams.

i think buckley was driven by things within himself and with his relationship with his father. The fans were irrelevant...and that would obviously have assisted him during his playing career. I think a lot of people in the 20s are a lot more sensitive to criticism than buckley, even if it's just hysteria. I dont know grundy but I dont think he would be able to distance his performance as buckley would have. Robert flower was generally loved by the melbourne fans and supported and not seen as part from the failures of that club. It is not a relevant comparison.

If I was grundy and my personal circumstances allowed it, I would consider returning home. While a large part of the collingwood fanbase are supportive of him, he will never win back a vocal minority of supporters - many who post here. He could pay back money but it wouldnt help much, i think.

The question is what brodie wants to achieve in his career...and how the negativity impacts on him. All sportspeople get negativity and he would cop it in adelaide too, but i think it would be greatly reduced in his home town.

 

[Scodog10]

- Lack of spread and/or size inside hurts us. We have no-one running sideways or past the contest to dish out to. We are slow and stagnant. We get wrapped up in tackles easily accordingly. Our midfield has gone from one of the most vaunted 2 seasons ago, to one of the bottom 4 now while Adams is out and Jordy unavailable.
- Forwards are often ineffective with their leading patterns. Hence Sidebottom and Pendles have reverted to kicking torps down the line. Moore gets on the move, but is really required down back, especially in Howe's absence. They're not working hard enough offensively or defensively.
- Too many players out of position or who don't fit their role - Rantall and Macrae are not forwards. Thomas is not a centre square mid, nor C Brown. Play Wilbur forward, Henry is a Forward, maybe Rantall on a wing with his fitness to replace Phillips of old.
- Magden, C Brown, Ruscoe, W Kelly are not near the level for senior football for mine. Macrae will get there and Rantall is not there yet either. Kelly needs more time before I condemn him but he actually got well beaten in defence last week I thought playing Werribee.

But
- McCreery was another bright light - hard, fast defensive and crumbing forward who can finish his work. A nice find we've been crying out for
- Murphy was good early and his courage was great. Definitely play him before Mayne as I have been preaching for years on here
- Darcy Cameron was good
- IQ had a hard match up, but his run and intercept work was good

but our depth is being tested at present and I expect we'll struggle to beat the GC next week.
Jordy will be a welcome addition.

The lack of overlap run out of the back half was scary bad which is system all over. It meant that we had to try and kick our way out. With a guy like Maynard barely going as our “best” kicker back there you’re always going to struggle to transition the ball. Then turning it over in the back half expends energy because you’re always defending plus obviously territory meaning the opposition have less distance to travel to score.

The turnovers also mean undersupply for the forwards. A good stoppage team could overcome that, but again we’re a poorly coached stoppage team so we also sacrifice ground position from there. In a nutshell we presently aren’t strong at any phase of play partially because our bottom 6 is horrible and because of how we’re coached. This results in big losses in I50 and possession week to week.

Was it any surprise that the couple of times we manage to overlap in transition Crisp and McReery hit the scoreboard?

 

[Carringbush2010]

I think we'll make sure that whoever takes over will need to win a premiership before they get our trust again. So in the leadup to that premiership they will have to wear this anchor around their necks as an added burden.

In the meantime, we're going to be blaming bucks for every game lost and every failed season. You know it and I know it. It will go on and on and on and on. Endless "analysis" of the mistakes of the 2020 trade period. The mistakes in retrospect of the various drafts. If you thought the last 2 years was bad, stick around for the next 5.

Personally I'll be vehemently blaming the club not just Bucks, the release I need from the reality that is Collingwood footy club.

 

[Albert Parker]

lack of forwards and kicking remain our ongoing issues, easy to blame the coach for that and he takes some of the blame but they deal with what they have and it hasn’t been a recruiting focus from list management. Mihocek was drafted as a back! Buckley is trying to solve it making a lot of changes and moving players around, it hasn’t made much of a difference to be honest.

Its list management that’s been our biggest problem and they remain in their roles with no pressure on any of them as Buckley is. I don’t think that’s right. Ned Guy inherited Derek Hines salary cap mistakes because he was doing two jobs and they brought Ned guy into solve it, he decided to pull the trigger last year on fixing it. Why was it so bad? Hine. Geoff Walsh had him doing two roles now we just moved Hine back to a key role of focusing on recruiting players as he always should have been. What other club has done that with their head recruiter. Been no acknowledgement of this mistake his eye was clearly off the ball for 2-3 years and we are feeling the pain from that now.

Graham Wright plays a massive role and decisions at the end of the year this season, if changing coach that’s fine he has had 10 years but he has to review list management that’s where our problems start and Hine needs to be under the same pressure to deliver. It can turn quickly with just a couple of good decisions

Well, I think there is cross over with Recruitment and List Management at other clubs.
Stephen Wells as an example at Geelong seems to fulfil both roles.
Rohan O'Brien at West Coast replaced Darren Glass as list manager and appears to have both functions under his remit at present.
More than Dekka could handle though, as you noted.

I think Hine's been OK on talent identification at the draft given the picks he's had to work with - but I understand others disagree.
We've taken Father Son's and Academy picks (Daicos, IQ, Kelly, Moore, Browns less so). Passed over James Stewart too, which seems astute
Guys like Mihocek and Cox even Magden have been wins given the cost.
Maynard, Beams, Langdon, Elliott have been great picks at their slot.
Guys like Rantall, Sier, Bianco were not low picks and you'd expect some hits and misses in the mid 30's-40's.
Stephenson, De Goey, have shown the talent for their high picks but perhaps not the application.
Steele, Pendles, B Reid and N Brown have delivered for top 10 picks but we've had too few given Treloar and Beams trades.
Shaz and Freeman have been costly but injuries have crippled them, which was hardly Hine's fault.
Jury is still out on last year's crop. I'm. not overly bullish, but we'll see.

But Treloar, Beams etc and the loss of first round picks for a few years (and now the services of both of those players) is giving us headaches.

 

[Markfs]

I understand his mother's scepticism when she quipped, 'Did the whole team fall over?' during the entertaining phone home call when he debuted. You are right about his facial expressions - I particularly noted his look of utter disbelief when he gave away the 50 meter penalty.

i watched ash barty play sabalenka. Sabalenka was fine in the first set. hitting the ball as hard as she could, overpowering barty. Barty kept her cool. Changed strategy and kept the ball low. Sabalenka lost it, became emotional, faked an injury, huffed and puffed, showed the world how much she cared, threw her racquet at the end. Barty won, small fist pump, looked around at her coach and smiled. Kept her head throughout, unemotional, obviously didnt care that much about winning because she didnt huff and puff and throw racquets to show the world that she is a passionate tennis player...... old school.

The reason trey ruscoe is not competing and not having any impact has little to do with the coach, and the position that he plays, or the umpires or any other reason that he is currently finding as an excuse.

we hear a lot of stuff about good families and good schools.... he needs to show that he wants to play afl.

 

[Markfs]

Personally I'll be vehemently blaming the club not just Bucks, the release I need from the reality that is Collingwood footy club.

there is a broad spectrum of pie fans... it seems to me that fox and the newspapers are orchestrating those who want life to be easy

 

[Carringbush2010]

there is a broad spectrum of pie fans... it seems to me that fox and the newspapers are orchestrating those who want life to be easy

That's insulting to the fan base, we've just been in another wasted window, sure msm like to dramatise it, but whichever way you wanna boil it down and dissect it the club has royally fkd itself - again.

Nup, I'll more than encourage any and every Pie fan to lay criticism where it is due. Rightly deserved in my book.

 

[domus]

i like his reactions when things dont go his way. He gets a look on his face of disbelief... as if he cant understand why life is treating him so bad..

And yet, he gets this look of enjoyment after goals...sharing with the boys.

I sense extreme immaturity.... which seems to be a speciality with Hine these days. His mum must have wiped his arse until the day he left for Melb.

I agree with those observations. His reactions seem inappropriate given the context on most occasions. I saw him wander away from a contest holding his face at one stage. He may well have copped a poke in the eye or some kind of whack but it looked so incongruous. The ball was in the air, the pack was forming and he literally turned and wandered off in the other direction.

My son said he finds it hard to believe he is on the ground wearing a Collingwood jumper. Why is Buckley selecting him?

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I understand his mother's scepticism when she quipped, 'Did the whole team fall over?' during the entertaining phone home call when he debuted. You are right about his facial expressions - I particularly noted his look of utter disbelief when he gave away the 50 meter penalty.

He must not have a footballer’s brain then because I was waiting for them to blow the whistle and award that 50m, as he jogged past contemplating God-knows-what.

 

[Markfs]

That's insulting to the fan base, we've just been in another wasted window, sure msm like to dramatise it, but whichever way you wanna boil it down and dissect it the club has royally fkd itself - again.

Nup, I'll more than encourage any and every Pie fan to lay criticism where it is due. Rightly deserved in my book.

you dont need to encourage it. thy will be done. i'm not saying that the club didnt make mistakes. i'm saying that many of the fans wont let the club forget it, even if it means we get stuck in the quicksand for years. I accept that. We do that.

 

[Markfs]

I agree with those observations. His reactions seem inappropriate given the context on most occasions. I saw him wander away from a contest holding his face at one stage. He may well have copped a poke in the eye or some kind of whack but it looked so incongruous. The ball was in the air, the pack was forming and he literally turned and wandered off in the other direction.

My son said he finds it hard to believe he is on the ground wearing a Collingwood jumper. Why is Buckley selecting him?

i'm at a complete loss. I dont know why you would pick such a player. I know how you feel about positive discrimination, but I would argue that a shot in the dark in picking a young indigenous kid who has some athletic ability and love of the game, would be preferable.

To me, his mindset makes me question the recruiting people and the current coaches and mentors....and i would question them before I get to buckley who is managing a group of 40 players. I know we should be blaming everything on buckley. I understand the team plan that the BF team has put together and I'm willing to blame most things on buckley, but I still wonder how he got on the list.

Maybe he's missing his mother. He might be lost in melb. I left melb for perth when i was 20, so i went the other way. It was a big change.

At any rate, i just hope that he gets put back to the vfl and given a chance to get a few kicks and remember what its like to play footy.

 

[SAweagle]

At the risk of bringing phrenology back en vogue, you have to question the dimensions of the head of the bloke that looked at the dimensions of this head and went 'that's our next list manager'.

View attachment 1111563

Nearly pissed myself, bravo sir

 

[No SPIN]

Shouldn't have anything to do with it

What greats strides and improvement in preparation for 2022, do you expect by sacking Buckley, before the end of his contract?
I see none - apart from appeasing the feral mob.

And yes he deserves a dignified exit as a Champion of the Club.
Which is more than Bartlett got at Rich, causing him to be estranged from the club for close to 20 years, despite several efforts to mend bridges by the Administration.

 

[Stifler's mom]

sounds nice and wholesome but it isnt that simple.

for example, I have seen that Matt Rendell has been promoting the prospects of the young collingwood players. I dont have access to the herald sun so others might know more about this.

I saw a reference that said that he thought they were the best set of young players.

Now he's either saying that to promote himself as he was part of the selection or to support his mate Derek Hine. I've watched the VFL matches and there are some good signs from a couple of players but a lot of them are not that inspiring. I was watching carlton the other day and particularly liam jones and amazing transformations do occur, but you normally see something when a kid is 18 or 19. You especially see something when a kid is older like the browns.

The point that i'm making is Rendell is doing a number on Pies supporters to promote his career as a pundit. He knows if he feeds pie fans dreams that he will asked back for further interviews at SEN etc. In short, its good for business and it helps out his mate Derek.

So unrealistic expectations will be fed long after buckley is gone. In fact, we will still have "blame bucks" threads long after he is doing 9 to 5 at SEN. Put that down in the predictor.

IMHO promoting the kids being recruited is another way of putting pressure on Bucks. Malthouse style.

Our KP players, with the exception of Moore are a concoction of delisted / rookie listed players.
Roughy, Magden, Cox, Cameron + Mihocek.

Abysmal.

 

[Markfs]

IMHO promoting the kids being recruited is another way of putting pressure on Bucks. Malthouse style.

Our KP players, with the exception of Moore are a concoction of delisted / rookie listed players.
Roughy, Magden, Cox, Cameron + Mihocek.

Abysmal.

put pressure on buckley to do what? lo siento no entiendo

 

[LuckyLee]

I remember a young Bomber playing in the middle against us a few years ago - seemed out of his depth. A few years on he attained 42 possies and 2 goals.

Exactly. Why do our coaches feel the need to ease our midfield draftees into the side via the forward pocket or half-back flank - positions these kids virtually never played coming up through the ranks? Play them in their best spots! Yes, they’ll struggle a bit initially but then will thrive.


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[Just Jimmy]

What stood out to me was how our players don't work hard enough when they don't have the ball. Time and time again loose Essendon players kept mopping up the loose ball. When our players had the ball they often had no one to dish it off to, because no one had run hard enough to provide them with a target.

 

[domus]

i'm at a complete loss. I dont know why you would pick such a player. I know how you feel about positive discrimination, but I would argue that a shot in the dark in picking a young indigenous kid who has some athletic ability and love of the game, would be preferable.

To me, his mindset makes me question the recruiting people and the current coaches and mentors....and i would question them before I get to buckley who is managing a group of 40 players. I know we should be blaming everything on buckley. I understand the team plan that the BF team has put together and I'm willing to blame most things on buckley, but I still wonder how he got on the list.

Maybe he's missing his mother. He might be lost in melb. I left melb for perth when i was 20, so i went the other way. It was a big change.

At any rate, i just hope that he gets put back to the vfl and given a chance to get a few kicks and remember what its like to play footy.

I would love to have a lively indigenous player on our list. I could weep watching other club's snap them up. Look at the impact of Pickett at Melbourne or Tippa at Essendon.

 

[No SPIN]

Exactly. Why do our coaches feel the need to ease our midfield draftees into the side via the forward pocket or half-back flank - positions these kids virtually never played coming up through the ranks? Play them in their best spots! Yes, they’ll struggle a bit initially but then will thrive.


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i think Rowell would in hindsight have loved to be eased into AFL by starting on the HFF - and he’s got a decent bulk.
Protecting our guys while they develop some size makes sense, with Daicos being a good example, and only now in his 4th year, getting solid midfield time.

 

[Lip Gallagher]

Shouldn't have anything to do with it

Yet here we are.

 

[Lip Gallagher]

Just like Tony Shaw?

Tony wasn't sacked mid season, he was simply told his contract wasn't going to be extended at seasons end.

 

[TradeDraft]

Tony wasn't sacked mid season, he was simply told his contract wasn't going to be extended at seasons end.

Hopefully they same will Happen this Year

 

[Lip Gallagher]

Hopefully they same will Happen this Year

We only did that because we had Malthouse pretty much signed up, i'm all for a change of coach but we need to get the right man.

 

[LuckyLee]

i think Rowell would in hindsight have loved to be eased into AFL by starting on the HFF - and he’s got a decent bulk.
Protecting our guys while they develop some size makes sense, with Daicos being a good example, and only now in his 4th year, getting solid midfield time.

Yes there are risks. But guys like Taylor Adams

3

Taylor Adams

Age

30

Ht

181cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.9

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

11.4

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

4.8

5star

CL

5.0

5star

D

20.4

5star

K

12.4

5star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

5.9

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

18.2

5star

K

11.0

4star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

3.0

5star

CL

2.2

4star

, Clayton Oliver

13

Clayton Oliver

Age

26

Ht

189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.8

5star

K

9.5

4star

HB

18.4

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

6.3

5star

CL

6.3

5star

D

25.1

5star

K

11.1

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.6

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

19.2

5star

K

4.6

2star

HB

14.6

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

3.8

5star

, Josh Kelly, Dylan Shiel

9

Dylan Shiel

Age

31

Ht

182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.6

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

23.4

5star

K

13.6

5star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.2

2star

T

3.4

4star

CL

6.4

5star

D

19.8

5star

K

8.4

4star

HB

11.4

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

3.8

5star

, Josh Caddy

22

Josh Caddy

Age

31

Ht

186cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.0

4star

K

9.2

4star

HB

7.8

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

3.5

5star

CL

2.5

4star

D

13.5

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

6.0

3star

M

4.8

4star

T

1.5

2star

CL

0.7

3star

D

14.0

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.2

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

1.8

4star

, Dion Prestia

3

Dion Prestia

Age

31

Ht

175cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.1

5star

K

12.7

5star

HB

11.4

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

21.2

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

10.8

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

4.2

5star

CL

3.2

4star

D

12.8

4star

K

6.0

3star

HB

6.8

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

3.0

5star

CL

1.4

4star

, Tim Taranto

14

Tim Taranto

Age

26

Ht

188cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.3

5star

K

12.8

5star

HB

9.5

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.6

5star

CL

4.1

5star

D

17.0

4star

K

12.0

5star

HB

5.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

3.0

4star

CL

5.5

5star

D

15.6

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

8.0

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

4.0

5star

CL

2.2

4star

and Sam Walsh

18

Sam Walsh

Age

23

Ht

184cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.1

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

11.6

5star

M

5.1

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

3.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

26.2

5star

K

15.4

5star

HB

10.8

5star

M

6.0

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

4.8

5star

have gone straight into the engine room from the start of their careers and thrived.


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[Mick F]

can we have D Cameron back.Will give 5th rounder

Don’t joke. We’ll probably pay his salary for 6 years as well.