Preview Round 6: Collingwood vs Essendon, MCG, ANZAC DAY, Sunday 25/04/2021, 3.20pm

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ant555

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Also agree with ant555 re Harry Jones.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving Jones a spell in the 2s at some stage just so that he can have a run around, get his hands on the ball 15 to 20 times and have his 4 shots on goal. He hasn't even said he'd drop Jones this week, by the way, it's not really part of the discussions.

Another 2 to 4 weeks of low possession, thankless/largely fruitless hard work and it will be time for a spell. It keeps him fresh and helps with the sort of hit your confidence must take as a young key forward when you're not scoring.

There is a difference between managing young players at a point at which they are not ready for 22 games a year and failing to give them opportunities which resulted in a scenario such as Ridley playing 9 games in his first 3 years (and ant555 wont like that example).
I still maintain that how they managed Ridley had zero impact on his development or our chances of being a top 4 side. He had some injury issues to deal with so that was a factor in him missing some games and they tried him for a couple of months on the wing in the VFL which did not work. He still came back and as I predicted had a great season last year. I will say it again. Had absolute zero effect on his development and mad no difference to how the side went in 2019.
 

BrunoV

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I still maintain that how they managed Ridley had zero impact on his development or our chances of being a top 4 side. He had some injury issues to deal with so that was a factor in him missing some games and they tried him for a couple of months on the wing in the VFL which did not work. He still came back and as I predicted had a great season last year. I will say it again. Had absolute zero effect on his development and mad no difference to how the side went in 2019.

Well I wouldn't apply a handbrake to team selection by keeping a player of that ability from a side that was as bog average as we were in 2019.

Also, for context's sake, it wasn't "months" it was quarters and it would not have been double figures. Your source is just plain wrong about this. It is a story we've had no interest in correcting because it would then raise the question of how it was that the brains trust only saw fit to pick Ridley who had been one of our best players in the first 3 and only games he played in 2019. He would not have been the player he was in 2020 but he was still clearly good enough to play AFL in 2019.

I really don't see how we justify the extent of the restriction of his game time. It's 14 to 15 games in a season in which he was clearly fit and good enough.

Apply the same rationale over the next 3 years with Cox, Perkins, Reid, Jones and Bryan and that's probably 70 to 100 games of development missed. There is a very good chance that sets a rebuild back by a year. We're not going to do it, despite it being infinitely harder because the arse has fall out of the team that otherwise had a pretty sold foundation at least forward and in defence, because we're not dicking around with team selection like we did in 2019 (and 2018 for that matter).
 

ant555

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Well I wouldn't apply a handbrake to team selection by keeping a player of that ability from a side that was as bog average as we were in 2019.

Also, for context's sake, it wasn't "months" it was quarters and it would not have been double figures. Your source is just plain wrong about this. It is a story we've had no interest in correcting because it would then raise the question of how it was that the brains trust only saw fit to pick Ridley who had been one of our best players in the first 3 and only games he played in 2019. He would not have been the player he was in 2020 but he was still clearly good enough to play AFL in 2019.

I really don't see how we justify the extent of the restriction of his game time. It's 14 to 15 games in a season in which he was clearly fit and good enough.

Apply the same rationale over the next 3 years with Cox, Perkins, Reid, Jones and Bryan and that's probably 70 to 100 games of development missed. There is a very good chance that sets a rebuild back by a year. We're not going to do it because we're not dicking around with team selection like we did in 2019 (and 2018 for that matter).
My source was my own eyes. I saw it. Stop calling me a liar ! You seem to create a lot of myths.
And it was only 1 season where he was fit to play all year.
I saw him playing wing / half forward. I also spoke to one of our development staff at a game while he was playing wing and asked about the logic behind it.
On top of that there was also a club article on the internet that mentioned it.
Bog average maybe but they played finals.
Read the article.
 
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Halftimehero

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Yeah, this isn’t the week to drop Jones. First ANZAC Day, wide open MCG for his leads to be used to full effect. I can see him having a big game tbh.

If he struggles in the next 1-2 weeks then fine, give him a spell. But not this week.
You could argue that our next 5 games are all winnable, should be plenty of ball coming into the forward 50, he’ll get his chance.
 

eth-dog

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I'd love to see us rotate Jones and Eyre through that spot in the team later in the year when Eyre's built his tank up enough.

But for now I would riot if we dropped Jones for any of the next three-five games.

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Eyre is probably 12 months away
 

Tazdog

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Don't think you can really say that when Cox has been playing since Round 1 and Reid played last weekend. Rutten's down to play these kids early if they perform well in the 2s.
They're different positions, you can afford having a skinny wingman, especially when he makes up for it with his height and insane athleticism. Key position players take a lot more time, and im not too sure if having 2 skinny, inexperienced key forwards would be good for the makeup of the side. I understand that this year we aren't playing with the intent of finals, but nonetheless, we need targets to kick to and kick a competitive score each week. Being competitive every week is good for team culture, and we want to make it clear that were playing to win, even if we aren't good enough. If eyre is good enough to command a spot in the side and Rutten believes he will command a strong enough presence, then hell walk in, but again, being bullied by experienced key defenders is not the way to build a winning culture. We don't want to bottom out and we don't want to be a norf
 

Megabattimus

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They're different positions, you can afford having a skinny wingman, especially when he makes up for it with his height and insane athleticism. Key position players take a lot more time, and im not too sure if having 2 skinny, inexperienced key forwards would be good for the makeup of the side. I understand that this year we aren't playing with the intent of finals, but nonetheless, we need targets to kick to and kick a competitive score each week. Being competitive every week is good for team culture, and we want to make it clear that were playing to win, even if we aren't good enough. If eyre is good enough to command a spot in the side and Rutten believes he will command a strong enough presence, then hell walk in, but again, being bullied by experienced key defenders is not the way to build a winning culture. We don't want to bottom out and we don't want to be a norf
I'm not saying we should play Jones and Eyre in the team at the same time. What I'm saying is later in the season, when Jones needs a rest and Eyre's built enough of a tank to play in the seniors, Jones should come out and Eyre should replace him.

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coastalpipeline

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I'd like to see Jones play out the next fortnight with two MCG games given he's a leading player. If he's still single digit disposals, then give him a spell in the two's to get a form-line together.

Otherwise apart from bringing in one of Phillips or Bryan for Ridley to help in the ruck against Grundy I'm not sure we should be making too many changes. Effort was solid enough against Brisbane, just lacking in execution.

Guelfi is one who could come in to the side, but without other changes that would mean Wright playing one-out against Grundy which could get ugly - or could be the making of Wright.
Solid effort against Brisbane?
Any team that scores 3 points in a QTR and 11 points in a half in footy is not showing solid effort.
 

coastalpipeline

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They're different positions, you can afford having a skinny wingman, especially when he makes up for it with his height and insane athleticism. Key position players take a lot more time, and im not too sure if having 2 skinny, inexperienced key forwards would be good for the makeup of the side. I understand that this year we aren't playing with the intent of finals, but nonetheless, we need targets to kick to and kick a competitive score each week. Being competitive every week is good for team culture, and we want to make it clear that were playing to win, even if we aren't good enough. If eyre is good enough to command a spot in the side and Rutten believes he will command a strong enough presence, then hell walk in, but again, being bullied by experienced key defenders is not the way to build a winning culture. We don't want to bottom out and we don't want to be a norf
We aren't playing with the intent on finals.
Well screw watching any of our games for the rest of the year why bother, may aswell watch GCS 😱. Deadset if we aren't keen winning games then every player last week that scored 10 disposal or less, put them back in the 2's. Let them miss a game, then when they come back I bet they'll play better. But it ain't gonna happen cos our coaches are still soft.
 
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BrunoV

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My source was my own eyes. I saw it. Stop calling me a liar ! You seem to create a lot of myths.
And it was only 1 season where he was fit to play all year.
I saw him playing wing / half forward. I also spoke to one of our development staff at a game while he was playing wing and asked about the logic behind it.
On top of that there was also a club article on the internet that mentioned it.
Bog average maybe but they played finals.
Read the article.


Chill out, you can be wrong and have an honestly held belief.
 

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owen87

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Solid effort against Brisbane?
Any team that scores 3 points in a QTR and 11 points in a half in footy is not showing solid effort.
We aren't playing with the intent on finals.
Well screw watching any of our games for the rest of the year why bother, may aswell watch GCS 😱. Deadset if we aren't keen winning games then every player last week that scored 10 disposal or less, put them back in the 2's. Let them miss a game, then when they come back I bet they'll play better. But it ain't gonna happen cos our coaches are still soft.
Honestly, why even bother posting if you're just going to complain about everything.


 

owen87

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I think most of this is easily explained by the fact he attended the Brisbane game in person and was pretty positive beforehand.
It's like people remain oblivious to what's going on, and are stuck in 2000.

We fielded a team that averaged 2 years younger, and almost 50 games per player less than Brisbane.

We put out a less experienced side than any team that wasn't Adelaide, and our side was younger than every team that wasn't North Melbourne.

By comparison, Brisbane had a more experienced side than anyone other than Geelong and Richmond. Playing at home. In the wet, which suits mature bodies.

If you want sad, imagine being a Carlton supporter who fielded an older and more experienced side than Port Adelaide, at home, and still lost by 28 points.

In what world did people expect that we wouldn't get smashed by a genuine Top-4 side? Those complaining need to get their heads out of 2000 and realise where this list is at. If they can't enjoy the season without making finals, don't bother watching for a year or two.
 

Lore

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It's like people remain oblivious to what's going on, and are stuck in 2000.

We fielded a team that averaged 2 years younger, and almost 50 games per player less than Brisbane.

We put out a less experienced side than any team that wasn't Adelaide, and our side was younger than every team that wasn't North Melbourne.

By comparison, Brisbane had a more experienced side than anyone other than Geelong and Richmond. Playing at home. In the wet, which suits mature bodies.

If you want sad, imagine being a Carlton supporter who fielded an older and more experienced side than Port Adelaide, at home, and still lost by 28 points.

In what world did people expect that we wouldn't get smashed by a genuine Top-4 side? Those complaining need to get their heads out of 2000 and realise where this list is at. If they can't enjoy the season without making finals, don't bother watching for a year or two.
I think Brisbane being a genuine top-4 side wasn't really conclusive a week ago. They were down the bottom of the ladder, had been belted by the Dogs and Sydney, lost to Geelong by a point and their solitary win of the season was 1 point over Collingwood (who have been a bit of a rabble so far this year). There was speculation that playing a lot of games at the Gabba last year made them look better than they actually were.
 

owen87

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I think Brisbane being a genuine top-4 side wasn't really conclusive a week ago. They were down the bottom of the ladder, had been belted by the Dogs and Sydney, lost to Geelong by a point and their solitary win of the season was 1 point over Collingwood (who have been a bit of a rabble so far this year). There was speculation that playing a lot of games at the Gabba last year made them look better than they actually were.
I think people were lulled in to a false sense of them being a poor side, when they were simply a Top-4 side that hadn't yet got going. They were always going to come good at some point, and a game at home in the wet with a motivated Daniher and a Brisbane side in desperate need of a win was a pretty good occasion for it. Their losses came to a Sydney who started the season absolutely red-hot and really jumped them, Geelong at home (by a point) and a Bulldogs side that is looking a genuine top-4 side and has started the season on fire.

Thinking we were a chance was based more off hope than anything else. Guys like Neale were always going to get going, and he looked much less hindered by his back which has nothing to do with Essendon.

They've been a Top-4 side two years running now, so whilst the GABBA / QLD advantage last year probably helped them out, it wasn't exactly out of sync with their formline from 2019 anyway. We made a lot of mistakes, as young sides do, and Brisbane absolutely punished us for them, as experienced sides do.

We're seeing a number of the finals sides from last year take time to get going, only Port Adelaide hit the ground running, the rest have all been a bit haphazard but should start to settle in now.
 
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