Autopsy Round 6, Freo vs WCE

[Tony_Clifton]

On a different note, a few posters are laying blame on Johnson. I don't think this is quite fair. On the weekend Johnson was asked to ruck against Naitanui and Lycett. This was to give Sandi a rest. It was also to spare someone else like Alex Pearce from facing potential injury. When not in ruck or on the bench his role was to hide at full forward, not necessarily to kick goals but to make sure wc had to cover him. Pretty selfless if you ask me.

 

[blue shark]

On a different note, a few posters are laying blame on Johnson. I don't think this is quite fair. On the weekend Johnson was asked to ruck against Naitanui and Lycett. This was to give Sandi a rest. It was also to spare someone else like Alex Pearce from facing potential injury. When not in ruck or on the bench his role was to hide at full forward, not necessarily to kick goals but to make sure wc had to cover him. Pretty selfless if you ask me.

Against most teams Johnson would do okay against other pinch hit ruckmen, but the fact is that WC
have two quality rucks.
Next time will be quite different with Tabs, Darcy, maybe Ape available?
It works for WC so I don't see why it wouldn't work for us, especially when we have drafted so many.

 

[Nolo180]

I hated the crap umpiring as much as anyone!
But we lost the game out the centre as said previously. They smashed us in the centre clearances which gave them the ascendany over and over.

Why did this happen? Well imo the big fella got completely worked over in the centre by lycett and nicnat! It was a hot day and sandi just couldnt get to the ball drop before the other 2 and when he did he had hard hands so didnt have his usual connection with the mids. His taps when he won them were bog average. His hands were hard as hell when marking too which is all too common and his decision making probabley due to pressure was really poor when he did get the ball. How about that big puch forward after half time that went straight to an eagle behind the play. Shit there wasnt even a freo player within 20m That was frustration pure and simple.

I love the big guy as as much as anyone but he needs some more help or a week off. Hes 35 bloody years old ffs. Give the ol warhorse guy a chop out. I bet hes feeling the loss as much as anyone as he lowered his colours which is nothing to be ashamed of given the opposition.
Oh and Johnnos a crab ffs. Need a fit ruck right now real bad. Sandis gonna get injured at his rate.
Maybe this should go in the melt thread???

 

[Nolo180]

On a different note, a few posters are laying blame on Johnson. I don't think this is quite fair. On the weekend Johnson was asked to ruck against Naitanui and Lycett. This was to give Sandi a rest. It was also to spare someone else like Alex Pearce from facing potential injury. When not in ruck or on the bench his role was to hide at full forward, not necessarily to kick goals but to make sure wc had to cover him. Pretty selfless if you ask me.

He evened the contest somewhat but apart from a little bit of ball around the ground that was about it. He doesnt fit the needs of the team right now but theres not much to choose from expect cox or maybe apeness if he can last a full game. I would hate to see sandi get injured like tabs and darcy if he shoulders too much footy!

 

[Arcassius]

On a different note, a few posters are laying blame on Johnson. I don't think this is quite fair. On the weekend Johnson was asked to ruck against Naitanui and Lycett. This was to give Sandi a rest. It was also to spare someone else like Alex Pearce from facing potential injury. When not in ruck or on the bench his role was to hide at full forward, not necessarily to kick goals but to make sure wc had to cover him. Pretty selfless if you ask me.

He had his role, and he played it. The things that stick out though were the turnovers, and watching his man run off him time after time (including the centering kick into the F50 to a leading player for a goal).

I think strategically we would have been better served having another midfielder in the rotation, and having A Pearce ruck (NN didnt ruck during the game as much as I thought he would). We lost too many clearances during the game to bring in someone just to ruck, to then lose out there, AND be caught out around the ground.

 

[Heart Of Purple]

He had his role, and he played it. The things that stick out though were the turnovers, and watching his man run off him time after time (including the centering kick into the F50 to a leading player for a goal).

I think strategically we would have been better served having another midfielder in the rotation, and having A Pearce ruck (NN didnt ruck during the game as much as I thought he would). We lost too many clearances during the game to bring in someone just to ruck, to then lose out there, AND be caught out around the ground.

exactly this. Nic Nat hardly rucked, and Sandi didn't really spend all that much time in their either. I actually thought Sandi won the battle with NN, but Lycett was easily the best of the lot (probably helped going up against Johno a lot).
I'm not sure we could've afforded AP to do the ruckwork Johno did as it was not far away from 40% of contests (at least thats what it felt like) and that's a lot of time not on JK. But another mid/KPF over Johnson probably would've helped us a bit.

 

[Arcassius]

We struggled badly with the centre clearances. We could have conceded the ruck battle and set up defensively to block the receiver rather than allowing them to get it out of the centre bounce so cleanly (repeatedly). Our stoppage work around the ground was better, but those centre bounces where they got the clearance and then rolled up into our D50 hurt us in getting the ball out of our defense. We were under pressure from the start, and then when we did look to move it forward, we had 1 on 1 contests around the ground.

In those scenarios where it's all 1 on 1 we really should either create more movement to create options, or run the ball, draw a defender and handball through until we can shift their structure. We typically did neither - I thought some of our run was missing from the last game. A few times we did try run it, the loopy handballs to a static guy, or the handballs to feet did us in. Learning point for the younger team members I think to sometimes *not* pass off to a senior guy calling for it who is surrounded by 2 others

I normally watch who is coming in off the square, but didn't during the game. Does anybody else watch what is happening with the mids coming off the square to write some notes on what happened there? I recall us being outnumbered at the centre bounces, and also there being a free option on the outside to them that enabled the clearance to be won, but can't recall where the extras were coming from for that to happen.

 

[Nolo180]

We struggled badly with the centre clearances. We could have conceded the ruck battle and set up defensively to block the receiver rather than allowing them to get it out of the centre bounce so cleanly (repeatedly). Our stoppage work around the ground was better, but those centre bounces where they got the clearance and then rolled up into our D50 hurt us in getting the ball out of our defense. We were under pressure from the start, and then when we did look to move it forward, we had 1 on 1 contests around the ground.

In those scenarios where it's all 1 on 1 we really should either create more movement to create options, or run the ball, draw a defender and handball through until we can shift their structure. We typically did neither - I thought some of our run was missing from the last game. A few times we did try run it, the loopy handballs to a static guy, or the handballs to feet did us in. Learning point for the younger team members I think to sometimes *not* pass off to a senior guy calling for it who is surrounded by 2 others

I normally watch who is coming in off the square, but didn't during the game. Does anybody else watch what is happening with the mids coming off the square to write some notes on what happened there? I recall us being outnumbered at the centre bounces, and also there being a free option on the outside to them that enabled the clearance to be won, but can't recall where the extras were coming from for that to happen.

I recall seeing ballas and hill. Missed having walters there. I dont remember wc going the big thump forward at the centre bounce sothey might of been better attacking from the other side?
It was a little tap over the back to shuey rinse and repeat. Freo had fyfe and sometimes mundy and neale etc setup behind sandi for large periods but sandi either lost the tap or didnt connect properly.

 

[Arcassius]

Banfield was on Shuey in the first half and then I think I saw him move to be on Hurn for the second half

Who was holding Shuey accountable? I think Crowden was on him at one point too in a blocking role (I remember Fyfe or Mundy pointing to where he should be) - I was having a laugh because they are both small

 

[Tony_Clifton]

He had his role, and he played it. The things that stick out though were the turnovers, and watching his man run off him time after time (including the centering kick into the F50 to a leading player for a goal).

I think strategically we would have been better served having another midfielder in the rotation, and having A Pearce ruck (NN didnt ruck during the game as much as I thought he would). We lost too many clearances during the game to bring in someone just to ruck, to then lose out there, AND be caught out around the ground.

I'm not saying Johnson should have played or should ever play again (imo he shouldn't). I'm just saying it was honourable for him to accept the mission knowing it was a suicide mission.

I wouldn't risk Pearce taking centre bounces.

 

[Ranger245]

Is

I acknowledge that occasionally players do snap. Examples being Des Headland on Selwood and Dale Kickett on Read. In these situations all thought of consequences flew out the window.

I don't think you need to go full brain science on players flying the flag. I think players doing this are aware of consequences and are giving a measured response. I do agree that some players are a bit dumb in not being fully aware of what umpires are looking for. For example, McCarthy throwing an opponent to the ground is just stupid. I am in favour of players flying the flag when required and to not do so is not going to result in us winning more games long term.

Yes the dumb shit is what needs to go, the satisfaction gained from throwing an opponent to the ground lasts about 2-5 seconds, the resultant free, 50m penalty and goal to West Coast lasts in the record books for an eternity.

 

[Arcassius]

I'm not saying Johnson should have played or should ever play again (imo he shouldn't). I'm just saying it was honourable for him to accept the mission knowing it was a suicide mission.

I wouldn't risk Pearce taking centre bounces.

Yeah it was honorable to accept, it just didn't work as a strategy. That's a coaching fail, not on him.

We could have brought in Giro to ruck for all it mattered in the end

 

[Moo]

On a different note, a few posters are laying blame on Johnson. I don't think this is quite fair. On the weekend Johnson was asked to ruck against Naitanui and Lycett. This was to give Sandi a rest. It was also to spare someone else like Alex Pearce from facing potential injury. When not in ruck or on the bench his role was to hide at full forward, not necessarily to kick goals but to make sure wc had to cover him. Pretty selfless if you ask me.

It was a poor call by the MC.

Why would you put MJ in as a decoy forward, when you could of put in Cox and he at least has the tools to compete in the air?

I don't think Johnno is completely blameless, his lack of accountability (for whatever reason) and sometimes poor decision making played a major part in 2 dirty bird goals.

Also on Sandi, Hurn on multiple occasions ran into Sandi's path to block and make him fight through the contact to get free down the down the ground. This is where having a lot of kids hurts you - they are so worried about their own game that these little things get overlooked. Hurn tried it with Fyfe in the vicinity and he received a bump allowing Sandi to run on.

The signs are so promising though, we've just got to get that depth up. 2017 looks to be a good year with - Brayshaw, Cerra, Crowden & Banfield all looking like AFL standard. However in 2018 we're going to be lucky to get 1, having paid for Matera & Wilson out of this draft. Our recruiters need to be all over guys in the age range of 20 - 23 playing in the WAFL/SANFL/VFL .....we need depth.

 

[Joao]

The signs are so promising though, we've just got to get that depth up. 2017 looks to be a good year with - Brayshaw, Cerra, Crowden & Banfield all looking like AFL standard. However in 2018 we're going to be lucky to get 1, having paid for Matera & Wilson out of this draft. Our recruiters need to be all over guys in the age range of 20 - 23 playing in the WAFL/SANFL/VFL .....we need depth.

Carter ain't going top 10 (at this stage anyway) so we will have our first and him to start with.

I'll eat my hat if we don't trade fairly heavily into the 2018 draft, even if it is just a bunch of 30-60 picks. I also expect us to take a few past pick 60 like last year. We have clearly shown we are not afraid to get mature guys (even if they are only 19) so we might see a couple more of them punted on late.

 

[Moo]

Carter ain't going top 10 (at this stage anyway) so we will have our first and him to start with.

I'll eat my hat if we don't trade fairly heavily into the 2018 draft, even if it is just a bunch of 30-60 picks. I also expect us to take a few past pick 60 like last year. We have clearly shown we are not afraid to get mature guys (even if they are only 19) so we might see a couple more of them punted on late.

Agreed on Carter- however who are we giving up to get back into the draft?

I'm just so happy that we kept our 1st rounder, looking like a pick in the 5-7 range and in this draft that going to get you another in the class of Brayshaw/Cerra. Ian Hill might not be what we need, however I'd take him in a heartbeat.

 

[Carnthedockers]

Agreed on Carter- however who are we giving up to get back into the draft?

I'm just so happy that we kept our 1st rounder, looking like a pick in the 5-7 range and in this draft that going to get you another in the class of Brayshaw/Cerra. Ian Hill might not be what we need, however I'd take him in a heartbeat.

Sheridan for a start. Sutcliffe? Any takers?

 

[Joao]

Agreed on Carter- however who are we giving up to get back into the draft?

I'm just so happy that we kept our 1st rounder, looking like a pick in the 5-7 range and in this draft that going to get you another in the class of Brayshaw/Cerra. Ian Hill might not be what we need, however I'd take him in a heartbeat.

2019 picks I'd say. We clearly don't have any players worth more than pick 60 that we'd want to let go.

Unless we have trade targets in mind I would guess something like:
2019 2nd -> Pick 35-45
2018 3rd -> Picks 55 + 65
2019 4th -> Pick 70

No doubt we get less value but we get the players a year earlier. I wouldn't even be surprised to see us trade out 2019 1st of we could get two picks, say 18 and 25 this year. Bank on rising up the ladder.

 

[Moo]

Sheridan for a start. Sutcliffe? Any takers?

I don't think we could trade Sutty ....age is against him.

Tommy sure ...may get some takers in the 4th round stakes.

 

[Joao]

I don't think we could trade Sutty ....age is against him.

Tommy sure ...may get some takers in the 4th round stakes.

I missed the joke. I think ability and not age might be Sutty's problem.

I'd take a 4th rounders for them. Also happy to keep them because no matter how limited they are chances are pick 120 is quite a bit worse. Tommy especially.

 

[Righteo]

On a different note, a few posters are laying blame on Johnson. I don't think this is quite fair. On the weekend Johnson was asked to ruck against Naitanui and Lycett. This was to give Sandi a rest. It was also to spare someone else like Alex Pearce from facing potential injury. When not in ruck or on the bench his role was to hide at full forward, not necessarily to kick goals but to make sure wc had to cover him. Pretty selfless if you ask me.

I thought he acquited himself well in the ruck. The problem was whenever he had ball in hand

 

[Taylor]

There are quite a few academy/father son players this year - even having our stack of round 5, 6, 7 etc picks could shuffle right up as picks are chewed on players we couldn't draft anyway. Curious about what happens to the points value of the picks when they start without a value but end up in a valued pick.

 

[StingBitten]

Yeah i turned it off after that and had a break. Was filthy over that bit. Masten is a flog.

My colleague who plays for Perth Demons told me they call him Chris ‘Bleach’ Masten... if you don’t know what that means look up why someone might want to drink bleach.

 

[G Mus]

On a different note, a few posters are laying blame on Johnson. I don't think this is quite fair. On the weekend Johnson was asked to ruck against Naitanui and Lycett. This was to give Sandi a rest. It was also to spare someone else like Alex Pearce from facing potential injury. When not in ruck or on the bench his role was to hide at full forward, not necessarily to kick goals but to make sure wc had to cover him. Pretty selfless if you ask me.

He did almost nothing right however

Can't move well at all, looks like he has the back of an 80 year old

At least two massive turnovers panicking under pressure

 

[BStaff17]

I must say there must be something west coast and especially Yeo do that limits Fyfe more then any other team.

Fyfe has never won BOG against west coast and i dare say some of his worst performances have come up against them in the past couple years. Last year he wasn't that great i think his worse game of the season was in the corresponding round 6 game

Hasnt polled brownlow votes against them since 2014.

Those at the ground did anyone notice anything in particular. Cause i thought leading into the game that Fyfe is due for a big game in a derby but was below his best again

 

[Arcassius]

I wonder whether he sets himself to sacrifice his game to allow others space and time, knowing that he's going to cop extra attention in the derby. Every derby Neale ends up with a BOG level performance, and I don't think that's a coincidence