Autopsy Round 6: Hawks don’t leave lockdown. Pies play halfcourt.

[SA HAWK]

Omeara and Wingard for what we gave up are still questionable and will take another 2 years for us to see if they were smart moves. (The last time I have looked Ryan Burton has not not done a whole lot at Port
by the way)

O'Meara - For what we gave up for him he needed to be a top 20 player in the comp he has been B grade at best. Probably looks the best choice for next captain.

Wingard - To me he seems like a final piece of the premiership puzzle type player the cream on the cake and i don't think we were anywhere near that close when we picked him up.

Both those trades will hurt us long term imo.

 

[TylerDurden]

It's a line in the sand moment. If he continues to play washed up passengers he needs to take a look at himself. He's always said the club is bigger than any individual. He needs to do the best thing for the club and the list long term.

We're gonna retire about 6 blokes this year.

We need to send a message. No free lunches to underperforming senior players.

Poppy and Scully dropped immediately.

Stratts. Have a rest mate. General soreness will do.

We know what we need to do. But will he do it??

 

[Jack Gun Cyril Stun]

Stratts is VERY highly rated within the club, behind the scenes and during the week to week. What he lacks on field he makes up off field and I think that’s why the leadership continues to vote him in and Clarko backs him to the hilt.

Leader and Captain are 2 very different things. Appreciate that he might be a behind the scenes person and great clubman but that is not necessarily a captain.
He has no on-field presence that I see.
Seems like he is just one of the boys voted in by the boys. That can be dangerous.
Doesnt seem to demand anything from team mates the way he goes about things or set a standard.
The pinching last year highlighted it. We aren’t the toughest or most physical team going around these days and when you’re captain is doing that rather than throwing his weight around or busting packs or making big tackles ...it flows on.

 

[Aramis]

Aren't our captains generally chosen by the players? Just because you don't like how he looks on-field doesn't mean he isn't a good leader. Maybe he is ******* terrible and the fact he's laughing and seems to not give a damn after losing indicates he is a very poor leader.

OR, maybe the boys love playing for him, maybe he is able to get them fired up. Maybe he is in the backline barking directions and we just don't see it because he's not involved in the play very much as a lockdown defender. Maybe the fact that he's a bit carefree is why the team listen to him and will put their bodies on the line for him. He seems to be a very supportive bloke, always getting around players if they make mistakes or getting into the opposition if they're getting smart without giving away a free.

The reality is we don't see enough to actually know. There are different types of leaders in the world and as long as the playing group follow him and listen to him then I'm happy with him as captain. Personally I would've liked Gunston or McEvoy but HFC leadership shouldn't be predicated on one player anyway. It should be a group of strong players with one individual named captain. Hodge wouldn't be Hodge without Lewis, Roughead, Burgoyne, Mitch, etc. If there is a leadership problem it's much deeper than just Ben Stratton.

You can argue 'well we're playing bad under him or not putting our body on the line for him therefore the leadership is bad' but I mean we lost by 80+ points 3 times in 4/5 weeks when Roughy was a captain in 17, down by 80 something with Mitch as captain in 09, among all sorts of other horrible results, you can't point to this insipid performance and say it was our captain's fault and not hold the others you mentioned to the same standard.

Tbh with you mate, If I was playing, I wouldn't take a bump for Stratton... I would have lost a kidney for Hodgey....

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

Tbh with you mate, If I was playing, I wouldn't take a bump for Stratton... I would have lost a kidney for Hodgey....

lucky you're not playing then or else we'd be in trouble then

from what i've heard about his drinking habits reckon you wouldn't be the first to lose a kidney because of hodgey

(not to mention Tom Lonergan)

 

[Mercy Seat]

Leader and Captain are 2 very different things. Appreciate that he might be a behind the scenes person and great clubman but that is not necessarily a captain.
He has no on-field presence that I see.
Seems like he is just one of the boys voted in by the boys. That can be dangerous.
Doesnt seem to demand anything from team mates the way he goes about things or set a standard.
The pinching last year highlighted it. We aren’t the toughest or most physical team going around these days and when you’re captain is doing that rather than throwing his weight around or busting packs or making big tackles ...it flows on.

This may all be correct, but it’s clear that there’s no incumbent waiting in the wings to take that spot. The club, particularly Clarko know All about great captains, and yet they’ve backed him to the hilt. Why is that? Probably a combination of what he does around the club and there being no clear heir.

 

[HawthornHawk]

The balance of our midfield is way off, Mitchell is at his best in an under and feeding to guys like Wingard and O'Meara. I hate seeing him overlap on the half forward flank for a 50 entry, his kicking is hopeless. We desperately need a few more strong bodies in their to block for our ball hunters that are prepared to do more running defensively because the current crop don't look near it. Ceglar isn't helping either.

 

[RoughysMullet]

Need Impey back in the side like the desert needs rain

 

[Pessimistic]

How do you rehab in hotels? AFL should be setting up shared rehab facilities in Sydney and Gold Coast. Madness to play everyone on 5 day breaks all for some holiday break which cv19 and state govts will screw up anyway

 

[SA HAWK]

How do you rehab in hotels? AFL should be setting up shared rehab facilities in Sydney and Gold Coast. Madness to play everyone on 5 day breaks all for some holiday break which cv19 and state govts will screw up anyway

If cv19 gets out again in bris & syd the season is screwed.

 

[thejockey]

It's a line in the sand moment. If he continues to play washed up passengers he needs to take a look at himself. He's always said the club is bigger than any individual. He needs to do the best thing for the club and the list long term.

We're gonna retire about 6 blokes this year.

We need to send a message. No free lunches to underperforming senior players.

Poppy and Scully dropped immediately.

Stratts. Have a rest mate. General soreness will do.

We know what we need to do. But will he do it??

Will be fascinating to see what he does this week . Melbourne are ordinary but can really trouble us as the move the ball around so quickly.
Hopefully we pressure them enough and they hang themselves.

We need the younger guys in but we dont want to chuck them all in at once either. Such a balancing act.
I'm really hoping we filter them in, give them a decent taste of it .

I still think we can be decent next season , but we wont be if we play safe the rest of this season.
Im really hoping the we are 3-3 still right in it chat is bluff .

 

[HODGEYROAD]

If cv19 gets out again in bris & syd the season is screwed.

It's strange isn't it, yet countries like England, Spain and Italy aren't having any problems in their football leagues despite active cases being in the tens of thousands or more.

 

[Jack Gun Cyril Stun]

This may all be correct, but it’s clear that there’s no incumbent waiting in the wings to take that spot. The club, particularly Clarko know All about great captains, and yet they’ve backed him to the hilt. Why is that? Probably a combination of what he does around the club and there being no clear heir.

yep clearly no heir which is a big concern and explains why we are where we are.

 

[killerspud]

Well we rolled the dice by giving Burgoyne a rest - It's an indictment on the club that we can't rest a 37 year old for a week.

Day looks great. Lets get Maginnes in and Jones back (wtf was he dropped)

The structure went out the door when Patton went down and no Breust, Burgoyne meant they only had to cover Wingard. We desperately need to find forwards big and small who can kick goals. nothing else matters.

TOB if he has to play - needs to go back - Sicily forward or on the Wing. McEvoy's marking and straight kicking means he needs to be more forward with Gunston leading out. Wingard has to play in the forward 50 too. Just not creative in our disposal or our running.

 

[Teamwork Talks]

Hopefully we go to Perth for the next hub, hate that ground. If Melbourne turn us over then we know we have real problems. 3-3 against 5 of finals caliber sides (and north) isn't that bad.

Hawthorn have never won at Giants Stadium
We are currently 0-5.

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

Went to bed before it finished, very unusual for me not to watch a game out. Felt a bit better after hearing Clarko's presser this morning though.

 

[eldorado]

Need Impey back in the side like the desert needs rain

I'd like to see Frost encouraged to take the ball under his arm and break lines as well.

Generally, I think 'pace' can be somewhat overrated, as the ball moves way quicker, except for the half-back line. Someone who can be a 90 metre player (run 30, kick 60) is absolutely invaluable on the HB line.

We know Impey has it, and Frost has the pace for it too. His kicking need not be pinpoint; only needs to be to general vicinity contest points in the forward half

 

[Brishawk]

If TOB gets a game next week i'll spew.

I’d suggest you keep a bucket handy when you check the teams next week.

 

[Roddy]

This year is an anomaly, a write-off. I'm starting to think Clarko is seeing it that way, and he's doing the right thing: playing the kids, seeing which ones step up, or step down. I'd expect to see Finn in sooner rather than later.

Jeka in for ToB too.

 

[James Colorado]

The idiotic banter and BT being unable to retain composure and squealing like a school boy at Kelly's wrist injury, you become immune to their nonsense but that stood out to me, imagine being his family and friends listening to that.

It doesn't matter that it was against us, Kelly was playing really well and looking like he'll be a solid player for Collingwood, and to have that rubbish as the soundtrack to it all makes it even worse.

At least Will Day looks like he'll be an inspired choice for us, though.

 

[Rioli magic]

The land of giants/lockdown backline experiment is failing and compounding our issues with deplorable ball movement, we are way too slow and poor by foot in the back half... we get zero overlap run from any of our defenders. The only time we have someone “time a run” from behind for a handball receive off half back which creates attacking ball movement is when Smith pushes back. Cannot have Stratton, Frawley, Frost and McKevoy as as 70% of your backline and expect attacking ball movement.

Desperately missing Impey (and Scrimshaw), Day looked great on debut, but this part of the ground needs an immediate re-think and overhaul and I’m sure it would help other areas of the ground and add speed to our ball movement which is stagnate and predictable.

Big Boy to the ruck, Frawley and Frost as the two pillars with 4 players who can run and aggressively use the football.

B: Hardwick - Frawley - Sicily
HB: Scrimshaw - Frost - Impey/Day
Ruck : Big Boy

We are too easy to play against, teams just get the ball forward and set up a wall as it’s never coming back out again with any speed or aggression...the ball just lives in that half of the ground then we bemoan our forwardline.

 

[Lickmesocks]

It's a line in the sand moment. If he continues to play washed up passengers he needs to take a look at himself. He's always said the club is bigger than any individual. He needs to do the best thing for the club and the list long term.

We're gonna retire about 6 blokes this year.

We need to send a message. No free lunches to underperforming senior players.

Poppy and Scully dropped immediately.

Stratts. Have a rest mate. General soreness will do.

We know what we need to do. But will he do it??

While we are 3-3 no chance he will do it. If we get to 3-7 then he will make the changes to personnel needed.

Can’t see Hendo, Stratton, Poppy or Burger going on beyond this year.

Scully has another year so unless club and player agree to part ways and a retirement fund provided to cover his 2021 salary he will be with us so clarko needs to light a fire under him to see if he can get him going again.

 

[James Colorado]

Carey hates us as much as anyone else and I hate him but it's hard to disagree with his criticism of our ball movement last night. It was the most frustrated I've felt watching football.

He is colossal plonker, but he can be insightful. His comments about our possessions being all sideways and allowed by Collingwood were actually spot on.

I've calmed down now.

 

[Pessimistic]

Hawthorn have never won at Giants Stadium
We are currently 0-5.

‘just looking on TV now, metricon surface better, Gabba like a billiard table

 

[TallyHawk]

The land of giants/lockdown backline experiment is failing and compounding our issues with deplorable ball movement, we are way too slow and poor by foot in the back half... we get zero overlap run from any of our defenders. The only time we have someone “time a run” from behind for a handball receive off half back which creates attacking ball movement is when Smith pushes back. Cannot have Stratton, Frawley, Frost and McKevoy as as 70% of your backline and expect attacking ball movement.

Desperately missing Impey (and Scrimshaw), Day looked great on debut, but this part of the ground needs an immediate re-think and overhaul and I’m sure it would help other areas of the ground and add speed to our ball movement which is stagnate and predictable.

Big Boy to the ruck, Frawley and Frost as the two pillars with 4 players who can run and aggressively use the football.

B: Hardwick - Frawley - Sicily
HB: Scrimshaw - Frost - Impey/Day
Ruck : Big Boy

We are too easy to play against, teams just get the ball forward and set up a wall as it’s never coming back out again with any speed or aggression...the ball just lives in that half of the ground then we bemoan our forwardline.

Agree with 95% of that, I'm absolutely over Frawley's sloppy one on one defending, others have to help him constantly, his kicking is horrendous, and then he feels the need to get physical after his opponent kicks a goal.

The guy is cooked, just play Kosi already and look to the future.


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