Autopsy Round 6: Hawks don’t leave lockdown. Pies play halfcourt.

[Sizzlesilk]

How the hell did Issac Smith lose the captaincy he held when Rough was out? Then VC?
Insanity. Leads with voice and actions. Game day and at training. First bloke directing. Picking blokes up off the ground. Celebrating effort. Encouraging.
I always feel like he gives his all & gives a sh*t.
Our 2 senior leaders have been appalling in both performance and attitude for near 18 months. Sure Gunston let fly with a few long range bombs... but you can’t trust him anymore.
So many questions of the playing group right now. The club has backed many blokes in unlike any other time....Consistently put up or please respectfully show them the door.
Our onfield discipline is as bad as I’ve seen it in 15 years.

 

[SA HAWK]

Still laughing/fuming about the TOB holding the ball (in the back) and the Mihocek “unrealistic attempt”.

Unfathomable how those 2 calls/non calls went.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Not much rub of the green the last 2 weeks that is for sure.

Starting to believe in conspiracies.

 

[Aramis]

lucky you're not playing then or else we'd be in trouble then

from what i've heard about his drinking habits reckon you wouldn't be the first to lose a kidney because of hodgey

(not to mention Tom Lonergan)

As opposed to the wonderful success we are currently having right?

 

[Wandering Hawk]

I want to buck the trend and say I'm happy with where our list is going. We are building nicely.

AFL is a game where having a bad bottom 6 means the whole group gets flogged. We may look trash but we're only 3-4 average players off being a good team again.

Don't forget the depths of the demographic hole that we're pulling ourselves out of. Our complete lack of forward line had been the writing on the wall since 2015, we knew the pain was coming. It's here, it's painful, but it's OK. We knew we had no new forwards developing over the past half decade and this was coming.

What we should not forget is that we've in the meantime fixed our back line and are rebuilding our midfield. We started with all three areas being a demographic disaster, now we only have one, and elsewhere we are building nicely.

We've been relentlessly adding good players at a great rate.

I'm particularly happy that Day is the goods.

Here's our rebuild:
New additions:
2017 TOM, JOM, + Henderson
2018 Impey, Worpel
(Moore, Ross, Jones)
2019 Scrimshaw, Wingard, + Scully
(walker, kosi, golds)
2020 Frost, Day
(Mcguiness, Morris, Jeka)
We're adding at least two good future players each year, plus journeymen.

If we continue at adding two decent players a year we'll have a very competitive list in 3 years, despite retirements. Normally a team has about 6 decent players for each line, and fills the seventh spot with b graders and evolving kids.

Backline 6/7 players
Impey Frost Sicily Hardwick Scrimshaw Day
Depth - Hartley, Jiath, Greaves, Kosi
Rebuilt already and future looking great. Needs a replacement only for Frawley when he retires.

Midfield 5/7 players
TOM, JOM, Worpel, Scully, Wingard
Depth - Cousins, Jones, Howe, Morrison, Golds, McGuiness, Prepper
Need some runners to replace Smith and Henderson
Deep depth/development pool likely to produce a decent player or two. Could do with one more good star to upgrade Scully.
Need one ruckman in 2-3 years, hopefully also a second, project player.

Forwards 2/7 players
Breust, Gunston
Depth - Lewis, Nash, Moore, TOB, Hanrahan, Morris, Ross, Walker, Jeka, Patton

It's likely we don't only recruit forwards, so we could play Impey/Wingard forward given the largely rebuilt nature of the backline and midfield. 2-3 decent new players here including a kpf seem pretty vital, and seems pretty doable. We'll be diabolical for 1-3 years till we get that, and then suddenly become decent. But I guess being crap means higher draft picks.

Riding bump with grin.

We're not that far off.

 

[OnTheRocks]

How long you been waiting to roll out that Mighty Ducks reference?

Maybe been waiting for the right sitting duck to float by?

 

[Mississippi]

If we continue at adding two decent players a year we'll have a very competitive list in 3 years, despite retirements. Normally a team has about 6 decent players for each line, and fills the seventh spot with b graders and evolving kids.

Mate, if we only add 2 decent players to our list, per year, over the next 3 years, we will be entirely rooted.

 

[Smooth Banana]

Dead set if we were bottom four side for the next 5 years I reckon we would lose half our supporter base. What did you expect after the three peat? This is natural. We were always going to crash after Hodge, rough, Lewis, Mitchell retired.

Breust, Impey, scrimmers- that's 3 players right there to come in. Add May and Finn, that's 5.

We have shown we can still compete. Yes we need a few players, especially an elite wingman. Adding a couple of players can totally change a team. Yes Clarko needs to change something, we can all see that. But we aren't as bad as what people are suggesting. If we won a flag in 2023/24 I won't be complaining, or at least be a top four side.

We cant win every year guys. We had one of the best teams ever assembled in the three peat years, most of those guys have retired. Be realistic.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

It is unsurprising not to read anything about Collingwood on this thread, but it is worth remembering that there are two sides out there and Buckley coached his players very well on Friday night. He came up with the strategy to force Hawthorn to go wide and short and his players executed the plan to a tee. Yes, Hawthorn didn't do itself any favours but it is worth acknowledging that Collingwood outplayed Hawthorn throughout the game.

 

[rei154]

It is unsurprising not to read anything about Collingwood on this thread, but it is worth remembering that there are two sides out there and Buckley coached his players very well on Friday night. He came up with the strategy to force Hawthorn to go wide and short and his players executed the plan to a tee. Yes, Hawthorn didn't do itself any favours but it is worth acknowledging that Collingwood outplayed Hawthorn throughout the game.

Fair cop here. I suppose it's easier for us to look at our deficits rather than the other side's strengths. Collingwood are at coming right to the tip of their powers and I think we're a ways off ours.

 

[hamohawk1]

I know we made the top 4 in 2018, but we haven't looked like being a genuine finals contended since 2016. For me, what's worse is that we no appear to be regressing and getting worse. Could now be 2-3 years of pain before we are on our way up, and by then Bruest, Gunstan, Smith etc. will be pretty much finished.

 

[Teamwork Talks]

I want to buck the trend and say I'm happy with where our list is going. We are building nicely.

AFL is a game where having a bad bottom 6 means the whole group gets flogged. We may look trash but we're only 3-4 average players off being a good team again.

Don't forget the depths of the demographic hole that we're pulling ourselves out of. Our complete lack of forward line had been the writing on the wall since 2015, we knew the pain was coming. It's here, it's painful, but it's OK. We knew we had no new forwards developing over the past half decade and this was coming.

What we should not forget is that we've in the meantime fixed our back line and are rebuilding our midfield. We started with all three areas being a demographic disaster, now we only have one, and elsewhere we are building nicely.

We've been relentlessly adding good players at a great rate.

I'm particularly happy that Day is the goods.

Here's our rebuild:
New additions:
2017 TOM, JOM, + Henderson
2018 Impey, Worpel
(Moore, Ross, Jones)
2019 Scrimshaw, Wingard, + Scully
(walker, kosi, golds)
2020 Frost, Day
(Mcguiness, Morris, Jeka)
We're adding at least two good future players each year, plus journeymen.

If we continue at adding two decent players a year we'll have a very competitive list in 3 years, despite retirements. Normally a team has about 6 decent players for each line, and fills the seventh spot with b graders and evolving kids.

Backline 6/7 players
Impey Frost Sicily Hardwick Scrimshaw Day
Depth - Hartley, Jiath, Greaves, Kosi
Rebuilt already and future looking great. Needs a replacement only for Frawley when he retires.

Midfield 5/7 players
TOM, JOM, Worpel, Scully, Wingard
Depth - Cousins, Jones, Howe, Morrison, Golds, McGuiness, Prepper
Need some runners to replace Smith and Henderson
Deep depth/development pool likely to produce a decent player or two. Could do with one more good star to upgrade Scully.
Need one ruckman in 2-3 years, hopefully also a second, project player.

Forwards 2/7 players
Breust, Gunston
Depth - Lewis, Nash, Moore, TOB, Hanrahan, Morris, Ross, Walker, Jeka, Patton

It's likely we don't only recruit forwards, so we could play Impey/Wingard forward given the largely rebuilt nature of the backline and midfield. 2-3 decent new players here including a kpf seem pretty vital, and seems pretty doable. We'll be diabolical for 1-3 years till we get that, and then suddenly become decent. But I guess being crap means higher draft picks.

Riding bump with grin.

We're not that far off.

I love the positivity of your post.
Should be more of it on this thread.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

I know we made the top 4 in 2018, but we haven't looked like being a genuine finals contended since 2016. For me, what's worse is that we no appear to be regressing and getting worse. Could now be 2-3 years of pain before we are on our way up, and by then Bruest, Gunstan, Smith etc. will be pretty much finished.

i would be shocked if bruest and gunston only have 2 years left. as athletic as they are most of their prowess comes from extremely high IQ and skills which aren't going anywhere (see: Shaun Burgoyne)

 

[Gaston]

Still laughing/fuming about the TOB holding the ball (in the back) and the Mihocek “unrealistic attempt”.

Unfathomable how those 2 calls/non calls went.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I am not one for the tin hat brigade but the Tim O'Brien one was deadeset corruption at its finest.
O'Brien should have laid flat on the surface for minutes afterwards to give the umpire nightmares about how poor
that decision was.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

I know we made the top 4 in 2018, but we haven't looked like being a genuine finals contended since 2016. For me, what's worse is that we no appear to be regressing and getting worse. Could now be 2-3 years of pain before we are on our way up, and by then Bruest, Gunstan, Smith etc. will be pretty much finished.

How many teams have actually won a flag since 2016? Can't win all the time.

 

[hamohawk1]

How many teams have actually won a flag since 2016? Can't win all the time.

the way our list is, we're light years off.

Don't want us to be like a middle of the run team i.e. carlton, st kilda, melbourne etc.

 

[grumbleguts]

I am not one for the tin hat brigade but the Tim O'Brien one was deadeset corruption at its finest.
O'Brien should have laid flat on the surface for minutes afterwards to give the umpire nightmares about how poor
that decision was.

Does anyone have gif of the incident?

 

[Jack Gun Cyril Stun]

It is unsurprising not to read anything about Collingwood on this thread, but it is worth remembering that there are two sides out there and Buckley coached his players very well on Friday night. He came up with the strategy to force Hawthorn to go wide and short and his players executed the plan to a tee. Yes, Hawthorn didn't do itself any favours but it is worth acknowledging that Collingwood outplayed Hawthorn throughout the game.

The frustration in here is not from the Pies outplaying us, that is going to happen from time to time, but the extent of it and our inability to counter.

The seeming lack of plan b when things have been shut down, seeming lack of intent to want to physically stand up to the opposition and make them earn it and seeming lack of attack when nothing can be lost all reek of bigger problems.

Do we have any enforcers out on the field anymore bc we need some more borderline mongrel asap. That has to flow from the top down so at least we go down swinging. But how do you fast track leadership. We seem a little rudderless.

Sure the rushed preparation and 5 game back up have messed with things, but the signs are there there is more going on behind the scenes.

We have scored what, 10 goals in our last 9 quarters of footy. That can’t just be opposition teams having worked our game plan out.

I just hope we are in a very bad lull and this game is the wake up call to brutally re jig the entire joint bc we look absolutely stale.

 

[apiro]

Loved the performance of Will Day. Has a Hodgey type presence about him. Really looking forward to his progression.

Disappointing performance of course but it's hard to ignore the difficult circumstances these games are being played under. Who knows exactly what the impact is on staff and individual players? I'm willing to cut them some slack.

 

[My Left Foot]

Gotta feel for Patton, though a broken body's nothing compared to a broken heart.

 

[Off The Couch]

the way our list is, we're light years off.

Don't want us to be like a middle of the run team i.e. carlton, st kilda, melbourne etc.

short memory
Prior to the 2008 Premiership how many years did we sit in the wilderness

 

[Brant]

the way our list is, we're light years off.

Don't want us to be like a middle of the run team i.e. carlton, st kilda, melbourne etc.

If only it was our list that was the issue

 

[thejockey]

It is unsurprising not to read anything about Collingwood on this thread, but it is worth remembering that there are two sides out there and Buckley coached his players very well on Friday night. He came up with the strategy to force Hawthorn to go wide and short and his players executed the plan to a tee. Yes, Hawthorn didn't do itself any favours but it is worth acknowledging that Collingwood outplayed Hawthorn throughout the game.

Well said , very well coached and executed . Took any of our potential strength away and we had no answer.

Thats my concern with us . I seem to know within 5 minutes how we are going to go . We are either 'on' or 'not' , competitive or out of the game pretty early .

Recently I can't really recall us being decently behind and coming back . Being outplayed yet us stemming the tide, swinging momentum and coming back and winning. But other teams seem to be able to do it to us .

We seem good front runners , get a lead and control the game .

Its probably a harsh as I see us as a mid tier side in the comp , so its probably expected on that assesment.

 

[Soft as malaxos]

It is unsurprising not to read anything about Collingwood on this thread, but it is worth remembering that there are two sides out there and Buckley coached his players very well on Friday night. He came up with the strategy to force Hawthorn to go wide and short and his players executed the plan to a tee. Yes, Hawthorn didn't do itself any favours but it is worth acknowledging that Collingwood outplayed Hawthorn throughout the game.

Yeah true, I'm guilty as charged in thst regard. It does work both ways though, the tigers were insipid rubbish for 3/4trs in that win, that gets put aside to i spose.

 

[Maybloomer]

Not much rub of the green the last 2 weeks that is for sure.

Starting to believe in conspiracies.

Clarko is a big believer in scoreboard pressure and in 2020’s shortened quarter, low scoring games, gimme goals have a lot more weighting. As poorly as Hawthorn played, I wonder how it would’ve panned out had (a) Mihocek been penalised for his unrealistic attempt and (b) a 50m penalty paid against the Pie who didn’t move back 2m when told to numerous times. 2 goal difference right there. Throw in the Mason Cox gimme goal. My maths tells me we’d lose by 2 goals but optimism tells me it could’ve woken the Hawks up when a win was a sniff away. More pressure in 2 goals than 5.

We do have issues in our control that will be dealt with accordingly and the rub of the green men shouldn’t be an influence. If we’re good enough, it won’t be but it would be so good to not get shafted. With the injuries, draw and playing on a crap ground, we have enough shafting to deal with. There are sides that are good enough to overcome a shafting but guess what? - they get looked after.

 

[hamohawk1]

short memory
Prior to the 2008 Premiership how many years did we sit in the wilderness

Difference is with he 08 list is the genuine stars we had in the side i.e. Hodge, Mitchell, Sewell, Lewis,, Roughead, Franklin (i'm sure i've missed some). They were all genuine a-graders.

Now our only current a-grader would be T-Mitch and Smith (Maybe Bruest too);

Just below the above sit:
O'meara, Impey, Gunstan, Frawley, Worpedo.

I've left out burgers due to age, but could easily sit in the A-grade list.

More to your point prior to the 08 premiership we we're in the wilderness for 15+ years (outside to the 01 prelim), but that was partly due to financial stress during the 90s.