Preview Round 7, 2020: Hawthorn v Melbourne, 19 July 2020, 3.35pm @ Giants Stadium

[philohk]

A few things in no particular order:
- I don't want to say Hodgey is wrong, but our footy the last season and a bit has been built on excellent defensive setup across the ground. If that ground is so skinny we should be able to defend it. But GWS and Collingwood cut through us, GWS despite losing the clearances. I know they only got 26 inside 50s but they were quality entries, and we only got 38 ourselves.
- I don't know if it's the ground size, the way the game is becoming a rolling maul, Hendo's knocks or some combination, but I've thought for a few weeks we're playing one too many outside mids. I'd be happy to bring someone like Jones or Cousins in for Hendo or Scully to give us more inside rotations and grunt.
- I've also been thinking we're too tall. McEvoy down back worked for longer than I expected but he was exploited the last two weeks. I don't think we need to try to replace Patton with a tall. Maybe Cegs goes down there but honestly, as someone else said, with the shorter games we might as well just play McEvoy with a chopout from TOB and forget Cegs.
- Burgoyne in, maybe for Patton. Minchington for Puopolo (sad but it's time) at least for now, then we look towards Breust, Nash and Impey coming back. I'd like Morris to stay unless most or all of those guys are fit, liked what I saw though we didn't do him any favours. Lewis when he's ready, Patton who knows.
- Down back, would love to see Day stay for now, then we see what happens when Scrimshaw is fit again. Stratton won't be dropped, obviously, but I'd prefer to see a setup like this:
B: Hardwick, Frawley, Impey
HB: Sicily, Frost, Scrimshaw
That's got grunt, skill, pace, lockdown and rebound. More likely with Stratton in that Impey will play wing or forward, either of which would make us a better side.

 

[Mrzohs]

- Down back, would love to see Day stay for now, then we see what happens when Scrimshaw is fit again. Stratton won't be dropped, obviously, but I'd prefer to see a setup like this:
B: Hardwick, Frawley, Impey
HB: Sicily, Frost, Scrimshaw
That's got grunt, skill, pace, lockdown and rebound. More likely with Stratton in that Impey will play wing or forward, either of which would make us a better side.

Perfect! lock Day in a pocket he will cement a spot elite kicking in defence Sicily,Scrimshaw,Day, and push Hardwick or Impey up fwd with Wingard&Breust.

 

[kazzooka]

No issue going for the flag in 16 when you are the reigning premiers you go for it next year.

It is from 17 onwards when it was pretty clear we were past it that is going to bite.

If you look back you will see that while we did have another crack in 2016 we started the rebuild that year. We brought Sicily and Burton in as regulars and other young players had opurtunities.

End of the year we went for O'meara and Mitchell to rebuild around.

We haven't been trying to "top up" ala lake, hale pick ups.

We have tried to do a development skip. O'meara, Mitchell, wingard and to a lesser extent impy and Scrimshaw were brought in as established players in would hit their peak for us.

Imagine skipping 2002-2006 with hodge, Mitchell Lewis, Roughead, Franklin finding their feet and jumping to 2007 with them all consistent and about to explode.

Unfortunately Mitchell, impy, wingard and O'meara have had injury issues. Only O'meara came with them but was ready to go day 1 but needed to manage his loads and build up to being able to play every week again.

Now an let's not forget the premature retirement of Cyril.

I currently see us at a similar stage to 2010 with under performing veterans, a few spots unsettled and looking like time is running out with Mitchell, Hodge, sewell, Burgoyne in their late 20's as bruest, Smith, gunston and Shiels are now.

Some guys can go to 33-35 ir 37 others hit it at 30.


Didn't take much to top fill the 2010 gaps to open the door for 6 straight top 4 finishes.

It was adding gunston, hill, hale, lake, suckling, Gibson, Langford, Cheney, shiels, Smith, poppy, Stratton, bruest, duryea in those few years that propelled us forward.

Gunston, bruest, Smith, shiels, Sicily, wingard, Mitchell, impy, Worpel, O'meara, Hardwick all proven they can be a core to challenge. We just need to fill out the other parts.

Key forward Lewis or patton? Do we land a Daniher or Cameron? Will Obrien find the grippo?

Stratton replacement. Day, scrimshaw and cj show promise as does greaves.

Wings:, Scully and Henderson struggling Smith may not have long left.. We have some kids but so many ways to bring players in.

Going into 2020 i thought that we would be competitive and play finals and use the year to see which kids can take the spots and what we need to recruit.

We've very drastically turned over the list quickly and will continue to do so. We need to ditch the players that can no longer play well, Burgoyne is oldest but is still an asset. Stratton and poppy have been poor for 2 years.

Glad to see Jones, Morris, Hanrahan, day getting chances.

Cousins, finn, glass, nash, howe etc.. Will also play. Need to see who is wasting a spot and who will make it.

 

[Spursfan]

Melbourne can’t score either so we are in for another eye sore. Get ready for “worst game of all time” media reports post game. The loser of this game is going to cop it.

Melbourne are super slow and not skilful. They have Gawn who is awesome. But aside from him they are not a good side. I think we will win. But the score line might challenge that Richmond Swans beauty from yesterday

You think this week will be bad wait til we play the swans the week after

 

[QuietB]

1 - Hawks need a smaller backline. Especially against Melbourne who have no key forwards.

2 - Hawks need Burgoyne and Bruest back for more than one reason.

Firstly they are good players and the Hawks are thin on the ground for those.

Secondly they release Wingard to the midfield and all of the Hawks best games this year have coincided with Wingard driving from the midfield.

Last week was a dirty week. Wingard 100% forward and JOM and Worpel having dirty days killed the Hawks chances.

It was one week though.

Fix the structure and the Dees are not that good.

 

[Lickmesocks]

Viney, Oliver, Petracca, Brayshaw, Harmes is a very good midfield. May and Lever.
They've got talent everywhere.

Don’t forget that little skinny pacy prik with the headband that always runs away from us and into the open goals.

 

[HAWKSBESTEVA]

1 - Hawks need a smaller backline. Especially against Melbourne who have no key forwards.

2 - Hawks need Burgoyne and Bruest back for more than one reason.

Firstly they are good players and the Hawks are thin on the ground for those.

Secondly they release Wingard to the midfield and all of the Hawks best games this year have coincided with Wingard driving from the midfield.

Last week was a dirty week. Wingard 100% forward and JOM and Worpel having dirty days killed the Hawks chances.

It was one week though.

Fix the structure and the Dees are not that good.

Dees have weideman as a key who is a very good mark. Also McDonald is another key fwd they play

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Slow, boring, turgid football. The exact same stuff we saw when we were playing terrible throughout a large part of last season.

I'm glad the ex-legends are calling it out.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

That midfield has terrible skills. Viney, Oliver and Brayshaw are accumulators but burn merchants. They are not damaging. Same can be said about some of our mids of course.

Petracca can be dangerous - until half time when he runs out of puff every week. Terribly unfit but talented.

Their forward line is rubbish. Like us they just don’t have damaging or dangerous players.

Gawn is quite easily the best player in either side and will tear Ceglar to shreds though. Still think we will win.

Petracca has been tremendous this season. No running out of puff and is putting in four quarter efforts. He's a different player now.

The rest are tough nut hackers though, much like Mitchell, Worpel and to a lesser extent JOM.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Everyone saying we will lose, what has Melbourne shown? We have at least played well against Richmond, north for 3 quarters and Brisbane. Who have they played well against? They were dreadful against Geelong and Richmond but now that they beat Gold Coast... that’s right GOLD COAST they are all of a sudden going to beat us?! Both sides are ordinary right now, but we are a better side than them and should be able to beat them. I know there’s the Giants stadium factor, but we should still be able to beat them.

Their midfield is the equal of ours in terms of hardness (JOM, Mitch, Shiels and Worpel = Viney, Oliver, Harmes and Brayshaw).

But they are using their most dynamic player in the middle and he's been huge this season. We need to throw Wingard back in there or around the packs at least to match it.

They've also got Gawn who will destroy Ceglar, and have some KPF targets to kick to. I'd feel more confident if we had Lewis back in the side.

 

[user33]

From all reports Brooksby has been playing mainly forward in the practice matches and clunky plenty of marks. Could see him coming in for Ceglar, who really needs a rocket atm.

I think it’ll be:

In - Burgers and Brooksby

Out: Poppy and Ceglar

Would like to see Finn in for Henderson too, who has been completely ineffective this year.

 

[Hawk_francais]

From all reports Brooksby has been playing mainly forward in the practice matches and clunky plenty of marks. Could see him coming in for Ceglar, who really needs a rocket atm.

I think it’ll be:

In - Burgers and Brooksby

Out: Poppy and Ceglar

Would like to see Finn in for Henderson too, who has been completely ineffective this year.

There is always a lot of romanticism around players before they pull on a jumper. I'm not saying that Brooksby is not a good player, but given that he shares Ceglar's age and athletic abilities, but has about 80 games less experience, my guess is that by 3/4 time we'd be begging for Ceglar. I don't think he'll get a game with two fit ruckmen ahead of him.


We could see Clarko employ a similar forward line as R23 last year: O'Brien, Gunston, Burgoyne as the main targets (Nash also played, but I don't think he's available)

Edit: Would love to see Scrimshaw back in. Haven't heard much about his ankle, but on the night it looked like he was going to try and get back out there, so hopefully a weeks rest was enough. He and Day playing together combined with Impey's return could be enough to change the whole look of our side.

 

[MasterSamurai]

Clarko is trying to run out games wıth 4 insıde mids. O'Meara Worpel Shiels Mitchell, then the cupboard is bare with Wingard needed as a frwd. Perfect time to add a young mid to learn his craft imo.
Jones and Finn , one or the other or both. Wanna see this happen soon and often.

 

[PhatHQ]

don’t like cornebut he is right regarding Stratton it just is not working. I watch the games and he does not even seem to be our backline leader that seems to be Sicily & Hardwick with Frost & Frawley. I have no idea how he can be captain moving forward if he is not even our backline leader like Hodge was.

Gunston should be captain I want to say JOM as he gets around team mates and great speaker but goes missing far too often. Regardless I think Gunston should get it this year and next provided we drop Stratton which we should and then see with JOM or Sicily, Impey May also become a good choice.

In reality Clarko stuffed up the last 2 captaincies however Roughy was the obvious choice but should never of been captain after his cancer issue, really should have gone withHodge another year and he really need to mentor Gunston or McEvoy for 2017 onwards. And if that was done we would not be having this discussion!!

Re-Hodge. He was pretty done I thought. Could have given 1 more season as the players transitioned from the 3 peat or simply given to Smith, Shiels as the home grown Captain. McEvoy was still a better choice IMO to lead the team for 4-5 years.
Rough didn’t need the captaincy on his shoulders and was only ever going to be a caretaker captain (2years) and then the club go and stuff up Stratton.
I don’t think Jager or Tom will be Captain because of the same idea that McEvoy didn’t get appointed captain and that is they are not home grown. Same applies to Gunston. All 4 are and were better choices for a captain to grow with the 3 peat change, BB being the obvious standout at the time for me.
Smith is more a jester and not a front man for a club and they obviously didn’t have Shiels planned long term when they appointed Stratton otherwise I would have thought he was the ideal candidate for a 4-5 year term until a Sicily, Hardwick type bobbed up. Or I could simply be wrong and Rough and Stratts were a great choice and that the club wanted Jager all along to be Captain and will get the gig next year but the club needed to bide their time as he was made to be a Captain.
Jags for 4-5 then Hardwick or Worps from the current list. I’m a Dimma fan.

I do like the idea of Sicily leading the boys out to battle. Of all the players I think he would carry the role well on and off field and it would lock away one of the best players at the club with FA just around the corner.

On the game... geez I hope Day can back up, Harry gets another run and we get to see Finn.

 

[Tassie Cryptik]

Time to bring in the Irish.

 

[TylerDurden]

This is intense media heat now. We simply must respond.

 

[Chubberson]

Scully, Patton, Puopolo all not AFL standard, Scully is a softcck. Bring in the kids.

 

[Flamin Joe]

Everyone saying we will lose, what has Melbourne shown? We have at least played well against Richmond, north for 3 quarters and Brisbane. Who have they played well against? They were dreadful against Geelong and Richmond but now that they beat Gold Coast... that’s right GOLD COAST they are all of a sudden going to beat us?! Both sides are ordinary right now, but we are a better side than them and should be able to beat them. I know there’s the Giants stadium factor, but we should still be able to beat them.

I agree with your sentiment but Gold Coast aren't the rubbish team they were last year. Their high picks are starting to pay off and they are finally starting to put in some decent back to back performances. But like any developing side they are going to have their ups and downs.

Honestly I wouldn't take them lightly if we were to play them next considering our recent form.

 

[Bugs1977]

Re-Hodge. He was pretty done I thought. Could have given 1 more season as the players transitioned from the 3 peat or simply given to Smith, Shiels as the home grown Captain. McEvoy was still a better choice IMO to lead the team for 4-5 years.
Rough didn’t need the captaincy on his shoulders and was only ever going to be a caretaker captain (2years) and then the club go and stuff up Stratton.
I don’t think Jager or Tom will be Captain because of the same idea that McEvoy didn’t get appointed captain and that is they are not home grown. Same applies to Gunston. All 4 are and were better choices for a captain to grow with the 3 peat change, BB being the obvious standout at the time for me.
Smith is more a jester and not a front man for a club and they obviously didn’t have Shiels planned long term when they appointed Stratton otherwise I would have thought he was the ideal candidate for a 4-5 year term until a Sicily, Hardwick type bobbed up. Or I could simply be wrong and Rough and Stratts were a great choice and that the club wanted Jager all along to be Captain and will get the gig next year but the club needed to bide their time as he was made to be a Captain.
Jags for 4-5 then Hardwick or Worps from the current list. I’m a Dimma fan.

I do like the idea of Sicily leading the boys out to battle. Of all the players I think he would carry the role well on and off field and it would lock away one of the best players at the club with FA just around the corner.

On the game... geez I hope Day can back up, Harry gets another run and we get to see Finn.

Top post mate. Agree with all you said

 

[thejockey]

How are people still thinking TOB gets a game?

Apparently got pictures of Clarko according to some who post here

 

[TazHawk15]

Last year when we were playing s**t someone decided to let the players have some fun and just enjoy themselves, it’s time to do it again.

Enough of this kicking across the backline only for it to end up in Chips hand.

I lost count of how many times Sicily ended up kicking to Frawley (it should be the other way round)

Apart from the obvious players that are struggling,I hope Clarko puts a rocket up Sicily and Chad about their putrid foot skills on the weekend.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

Scully, Patton, Puopolo all not AFL standard, Scully is a softcck. Bring in the kids.

We've seen Patton play what, 3 games? After coming off two consecutive knee recos? Give the guy a break. It took JOM, Burgoyne, Wingard and others all a year to consistently get on the park for Hawthorn.

I wish people would give him a chance before cursing the poor bloke off our list.

 

[QuietB]

Dees have weideman as a key who is a very good mark. Also McDonald is another key fwd they play

If the Hawks get torched by those two they deserve to lose.

 

[QuietB]

On another note Hawthorn did get beat by the premiership favourites last week.

Sure Hawthorn played like s**t, but only two teams have scored more than 40 points against Collingwood this season. Essendon (god knows how) and GWS who are equal premiership favourites. Collingswoods defence is elite and when they score relatively freely it is rare they get beaten.

If the Hawks get flogged by Melbourne then we have a problem.

 

[thejockey]

I agree with your sentiment but Gold Coast aren't the rubbish team they were last year. Their high picks are starting to pay off and they are finally starting to put in some decent back to back performances. But like any developing side they are going to have their ups and downs.

Honestly I wouldn't take them lightly if we were to play them next considering our recent form.

I watched that game Saturday night , it was a decent standard game.
If both those sides play to that level they would currently beat us , no problem.

We have zero confidence against a side now with confidence . It is going to be a challenge .