Autopsy Round 7, 2021: Hawks refuse to take the field

[Brishawk]

I wonder whether it’s an issue that emerges because not everyone might be able to (or care to) think with as much nuance as others.

No, it emerges because people are looking for reasons to validate their anger and frustration. It isn’t helping anyone moan about vickery...like, we all know it was a s**t move and it didn’t work out. What more is there to talk about?

 

[Charchi]

Fair enough to feel like that, however that won’t happen. Worpel has very close mates at the club and there is a reason why he’s part of the leadership group

Worps and a fairly large group of young players were at Sandringham today watching Box Hill V Sandy, he looked happy to be there with his mates, I don’t think he is going anywhere soon. Day and GDB were there too, Day was kicking the ball about 10m to some others and looked like he’s some way off, DGB looked even further off. FYI, after a disastrous second quarter, Box Hill steadied and won by 30 points kicking against a stiff breeze in the last.

 

[tommyk72]

No, it emerges because people are looking for reasons to validate their anger and frustration. It isn’t helping anyone moan about vickery...like, we all know it was a sh*t move and it didn’t work out. What more is there to talk about?

We all know that we played a s**t game against St Kilda, yet here we are 18 pages later, still talking about it.

It's a forum. Don't get me wrong, I think there's a lot of rubbish in here, but everyone comes to these forums with different needs and different intents. I prefer analytical posts that provide great insights (your ones on the spread vs congestion I found fascinating). Others just don't have the same skills/knowledge/insights/social queues - there's probably more diversity of people and personalities posting in these threads than often get into a single room in most places in the world.

 

[rei154]

We all know that we played a sh*t game against St Kilda, yet here we are 18 pages later, still talking about it.

It's a forum. Don't get me wrong, I think there's a lot of rubbish in here, but everyone comes to these forums with different needs and different intents. I prefer analytical posts that provide great insights (your ones on the spread vs congestion I found fascinating). Others just don't have the same skills/knowledge/insights/social queues - there's probably more diversity of people and personalities posting in these threads than often get into a single room in most places in the world.

This is something that I really struggled with early on on the forum if I'm honest. I agree with everything in this post.
These forums are full of people who care a lot for our club and that's the important bit. It can be frustrating when people communicate solely through voicing their frustrations in an overly aggressive/blunt way but that's all part of this place. I think the discourse is overwhelmingly accepted/acceptable, but there are certain boundaries that the mods struggle to enforce because when they do it enables people to feel targeted because of the way they communicate.
It would be pretty funny I reckon to see all the frequent posters from the forum in a room together- I reckon we'd be a bizarre looking group.

 

[tommyk72]

This is something that I really struggled with early on on the forum if I'm honest. I agree with everything in this post.
These forums are full of people who care a lot for our club and that's the important bit. It can be frustrating when people communicate solely through voicing their frustrations in an overly aggressive/blunt way but that's all part of this place. I think the discourse is overwhelmingly accepted/acceptable, but there are certain boundaries that the mods struggle to enforce because when they do it enables people to feel targeted because of the way they communicate.
It would be pretty funny I reckon to see all the frequent posters from the forum in a room together- I reckon we'd be a bizarre looking group.

Very, very bizarre. I went to one catchup at the London one day before a game and met a few people here who gathered regularly. Lovely people and extremely diverse! All from very different walks of life, with one common passion. One of the things I love about sport - brings such different people together.

 

[Pessimistic]

Its sliding doors but had the club gone a hard rebuild in 16-17, its very doubtful there would be much more optimism right now. Being competitive in most games for 2-3 quarters is not so bad.
And dont think there wasn't the occasional shocker even in the 'good' years

 

[Crankyhawk]

Yeah it's not like the swans have a had a leg up drafting wise or anything.

And the cats have the land deals that buffer the salary cap

 

[xmarksthespot]

This is something that I really struggled with early on on the forum if I'm honest. I agree with everything in this post.
These forums are full of people who care a lot for our club and that's the important bit. It can be frustrating when people communicate solely through voicing their frustrations in an overly aggressive/blunt way but that's all part of this place. I think the discourse is overwhelmingly accepted/acceptable, but there are certain boundaries that the mods struggle to enforce because when they do it enables people to feel targeted because of the way they communicate.
It would be pretty funny I reckon to see all the frequent posters from the forum in a room together- I reckon we'd be a bizarre looking group.

Agree. The rules of thumb I try to use when posting:
1. Would you say it to their face?
2. How would you feel if it was written about you (either footballer or poster)?

I think most people here have no issue with diversity of opinions, but it's how you get that opinion across that ruffles some feathers (including mine).

 

[grumbleguts]

It's only when they imply people at the club have f’ed up that it's just tiresome...

I mean, how easy is it?
" Look how good player x is? We should have picked him, instead of player y, who we delisted. You know what I would have done if I was in charge of Hawthorn? I would have only picked players who all develop into top 10 players! I wouldn't have picked those other players! If I can see it now, why couldn't Hawthorn 4 years ago?"

I mean, honestly... what's the point of repeatedly pointing out the obvious...that with the benefit of hindsight, the club's decisions might have been different?

It's a discussion forum, yes...but is that constructive to anyone now? Is it even discussion? Is there anyone here debating that Merrett ahead of Hartung might have been good? That it would have been better if Tom Lynch came?

There's no disagreement there, so what's the point except venting? It's like meeting someone at a bar, and impressing them by telling them about all your failed relationships from the last 4 years.

I wouldn't mind if such comments were prefaced with "With the benefit of hindsight..." but people just post as if every choice which didn't pan out was clearly forseeable and avoidable.

It's not ONLY when they imply people at the club have f’ed up that it's just tiresome...

It's when they post the exact same thing in 4 different threads on the same night and 6 times in each, none of it reportable to you guys, but makes the forum not longer worth reading. I'm basically out except for the occasional post now, because it is so wearing, listening to these people post the exact same whinge time and time again 5 times a night each and their are plenty of them, with no alternative posted except "play the kids". Completely ignoring that we are in fact playing the kids. Since Ben McEvoy played his first game for Hawthorn in 2014, we have played 68 different club debutants.

 

[Mercy Seat]

I'm not hunting for anything. Just trying to discuss the use of our inexperience as an excuse for the loss, is all.

Do you believe that inexperience was a reason for the loss? I think it runs much deeper than that.

Honestly, I think both can be true at the same time. We are a bottom 4 side playing probably a top 8-10 side. Those deep problems within the club are list related, I think we can all agree on that.

But we also had 12 different players from our starting 22 that weren’t in the team round 1 last year. That’s a huge turnover. 9 kids less than also 30 games. Also huge. If you read the pre game threads, most thought we would get pumped when JOM and Chad were announced as outs. I think it’s a fair thing to touch on, especially when you’re the coach and the face of the club.

 

[Falco131415]

Don't know who the skills coach is at HFC or if we even have one.

But we fumble & miss targets ad nausea um!

Went to both the games & a lot of fumbling/turnovers @ Sandy too.

I really worry about our list & GW isn't the messiah that everyone made him out to be.

Personally glad he's left the club.

We need that 2004 draft special again at the end of the year!

 

[Boot Studder]

Don't know who the skills coach is at HFC or if we even have one.

David Rath was a bio mechanist who was brilliant as a skills coach. He left for other pastures a few years ago and our kicking, in particular, has been lacking since. I'm not sure that the club has a skills coach at the moment. The League's rules limiting staff is not helpful in this, either.

 

[Pessimistic]

The development coaches are on the box hill roster

 

[burner1]

Clean hands is generally what you get with the more elite talent. Very hard to find guys with elite hands and footskills with late picks. Both are hard to materially improve with training, with clean hands often the difference between making it at afl level as if you fumble you’re stuffed.

 

[Lickmesocks]

Don't know who the skills coach is at HFC or if we even have one.

But we fumble & miss targets ad nausea um!

Went to both the games & a lot of fumbling/turnovers @ Sandy too.

I really worry about our list & GW isn't the messiah that everyone made him out to be.

Personally glad he's left the club.

We need that 2004 draft special again at the end of the year!

there is no surprise to me that we are missing targets. We have recruited some poor kicks.

Frosty has been delisted from two clubs because he can’t kick.

Truck Hartigan should not be kicking the ball at any stage.

young Ollie reminds me of Timmy Clarke. His little legs don’t have the penetration to hit a target let alone one 35 metres away.

Shiels has never been a great kick. Great heart and effort but not a great kick.

Mitchell is a good chip kick to 20-30 metres but anything further and it’s a high loopy ball that gets killed from the opposition.

Worpels biggest question mark when we took him was his kicking skills. I think he is still a work in progress tho.

Since Omeara had the knee surgery’s his kicking has never recovered.

I won’t go on but unfortunately we have recruited a lot of poor kicks and it really stands out.

 

[MrPremiership]

Would we have won that game with O'Meara and Wingard?

I don't think so.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Would we have won that game with O'Meara and Wingard?

I don't think so.

You'd think we'd have been a bit more competitive though

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Would we have won that game with O'Meara and Wingard?

I don't think so.

No chance.

 

[MrPremiership]

You'd think we'd have been a bit more competitive though

Sure, but we'd still have lost.

Instead, we had Maginness get another game and Cousins had his best game ever. Both results are great for our future.

I'd rather play those 2 young players and lose by 60, than keep trying the same old players and lose by 30

 

[Falco131415]

there is no surprise to me that we are missing targets. We have recruited some poor kicks.

Frosty has been delisted from two clubs because he can’t kick.

Truck Hartigan should not be kicking the ball at any stage.

young Ollie reminds me of Timmy Clarke. His little legs don’t have the penetration to hit a target let alone one 35 metres away.

Shiels has never been a great kick. Great heart and effort but not a great kick.

Mitchell is a good chip kick to 20-30 metres but anything further and it’s a high loopy ball that gets killed from the opposition.

Worpels biggest question mark when we took him was his kicking skills. I think he is still a work in progress tho.

Since Omeara had the knee surgery’s his kicking has never recovered.

I won’t go on but unfortunately we have recruited a lot of poor kicks and it really stands out.

Spot on there!
Our list management has been poor for a long time there & I get sick in the guts here when posters here laud Wright's work.
These are the same posters who laugh at early draft picks being the panacea for success.
Hey not every early pick makes it but it gives a lot better chance than topping up with mid to late draft picks year in year out!

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Would we have won that game with O'Meara and Wingard?

I don't think so.

agreed, we were still likely to lose.

They came out firing, and we had nothing to counter with because we are still a work in progress.

 

[Randy Campbell]

Just the football gods, giving us what is due.

 

[MrPremiership]

Just the football gods, giving us what is due.

Got to say, was the first time this season where we never looked in the game.

 

[PhatHQ]

No it wasn't.

Anyway, say we played Burgoyne, JOM and Wingard and lost by a more respectable 5 goals, which seems realistic. What then would the excuse be?

It would be Timmy’s fault

Seriously, it would be midfield supply and lack of class and effort. If the boys had a ruthless edge to compete it would cover some of the deficiencies but when team looks as flat as a pancake, soft and indecisive... the buck stops with the coaching staff.

Don’t get me wrong, there were boys out there battling their guts out. Just not enough

 

[Strapping Young Lad]