Autopsy Round 7, 2025: Positives and Negatives vs Hawthorn

[Grahame]

Doubt he's trying to get himself suspended - counterproductive?
He's partial to a coat hanger or three... he's just a very competitive beast.
But you don't want to see it descend into continual dirty play, he'll pay the price from oppo and umps. (that target on the back will haunt him) Maturity and experience required, without suppressing his natural ability and competitive edge.

Yep someone mentioned the Toby G comparison and how umpires crucified him (often justifiably). But TG figured it out - aka matured. Let’s just hope when the penny drops for Harley he’s still an Eagle.

 

[Astro7]

It's something that put alot of unnecessary attention on him, something that was partly responsible for him being moved out of the midfield, that he got out of his game while playing down back, and is now back again.

I'm pretty sure at least 3 of his free kicks ended up directly in goals. It's fine to say "we lost by 10 goals anyway' but hopefully one day we won't, and those goals from silly free kicks could be the difference.

Yes...and those free kicks!! Coach and team mates be in his ear...not sure how many were deserved or if just umpire heat on him? Wonder if any truth to him being a bully in the juniors. He seems to dish a bit out off the ball, behind play. But he's already getting back what he dishes out amongst the big boys, so another learning curve...maybe by next season?

 

[Grahame]

Yes...and those free kicks!! Coach and team mates be in his ear...not sure how many were deserved or if just umpire heat on him? Wonder if any truth to him being a bully in the juniors. He seems to dish a bit out off the ball, behind play. But he's already getting back what he dishes out amongst the big boys, so another learning curve...maybe by next season?

Yep. Also he would have been a very big fish in a small pond. Welcome to the ocean Harley.

Get used to the fact you’re just one of many very good players.

And, it ain’t media hype that makes you a champion - it’s actions on field.

 

[Obeanie1]

- Hawks "celebrations". Time and place lads. After big goals in big games, sure go nuts. Beating up the 18th team, nah, bit of a shit look.

Be humble

Nothing humble about Mitchell or the Hawks.

Bunch of arrogant teenagers the way they carry on and operate.

Mitchell as coach what do we expect?

 

[flyinghi64]

Don't get some of the Flynn negativity. 10 CP's and 5 intercepts, not bad for a Ruck.
Was the highest rated player on the ground at 20, Meek was 8th at 14.5.
Yes Meek had double the hit outs, with 13 more contests, but went at 36% TA where Flynn went at 46%.
Only his second game in a row and will improve with each game, Albeit Gawn this week will be a test.

What did we say or do to the Umpires at the start of the year, I don't get it.
We get arm chopped, scragged, blocked, pushed out etc etc and play on. Breathe on the opponent and give away a free.
We got ripped at least 3 inside 50 marks for at the very most a 50/50 iffy decision.
The one where Scrimshaw collapsed like a pack of cards was bad. Had he have held his ground Ryan would have at the least got to the ball. And the blatant throws, geez.
Didn't cost us the game or anything, our poor decision making and skill level took care of that, but please is it too much to ask for a hint of fair an even umpiring.

 

[flyinghi64]

Oh and Hawks fast becoming the team I most can't wait to beat when we finally get our sh1t together.
That Twotto and Ginny with their school yard taunts and celebrations, can't believe 2 players could make me dislike a whole team so much.
Nice one Gov

 

[Scotland]

I'd love to see a decent footy analyst go through the vision from start to finish and highlight passages of play that led to opposition goals.

They kicked 18.16, so out of 34 scoring shots the eye test tells me at least 10 of those were a direct result of really poor errors by us. Could easily be more than that. The reality is that our two good games (Bris, Ess) were highlighted by passages of play of not turning the ball over stupidly for no reason. A handball turnover in the corridor will result in an inside 50 and most of the time results in a scoring shot.

The number of times we can't hit a target by hand under little to no pressure, chip the ball up in the air to a stationary player with an opponent bearing down, don't kill the contest and punch the ball over the boundary/goal line, don't keep the ball inside a stoppage... Simmo talked last week about 1 on 1s at centre bounces. Watching the game you can telegraph the times when the ball goes to an opposition mid that two WC players are going to go to him resulting in an ineffective 2 on 1 and a free player in space.

Don't get me wrong I never got near the elite level but I reckon I could still get 2 points 5 times in a row on Lou's handball... I'm not convinced some of our players can. Meanwhile the opposition coach who has been retired for 8 years would still get 7s and 10s on both hands.



I'm sure it will come up in the Monday media rounds but do yourselves a favour and have a look at Jack Gunston

19

Jack Gunston

Age

33

Ht

193cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.5

4star

K

10.5

4star

HB

5.0

4star

M

5.7

5star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.9

5star

D

10.6

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

2.6

2star

M

4.3

4star

T

1.7

3star

G

1.6

5star

D

11.2

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.2

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.6

4star

G

0.6

3star

's last goal, 3 minutes into the last quarter with the margin at around 6 goals. It's on the AFL website highlights. Chol snaps from the opposite side from about 45 out and bellies it, so the ball lands in the pocket. Gunston who has kicked about 200 right foot snaps over the last 15 years takes a step or two and Dewar makes a token effort to pressure him. Anyone care to explain what the other WC players are doing? They all seem pretty focused on something. Maybe it's the superannuation advertisements.

 

[Rowan18]

I think the biggest negative for me is that even after the game was in the bag for Hawthorn they were still beating us for intensity, pressure and effort. You could both see it with your own eyes and you could see it in the pressure gauge stat that Channel 7 has. They were more desperate. Way more tackles despite them having the ball for more time than us, more men at the coal face at every contest than we had etc etc. I can accept my team losing. We had a decade of absolutely awful management and decisions at the club from people who are now gone and now we are paying the piper for that. But being beaten for effort is hard to take. And it is hard to figure out why? Are we less fit than the other teams and if so why? Is it a psychological thing where we have been copping hidings for so long and having the club make excuses for it that it is now just ingrained in the playing group that trying doesn't matter and it is OK to lose?

I've been mulling this over and I think it comes down to clarity. When you have faith in your gameplan and teammates, you can run hard, knowing what should come next. When you're a bit unsure where you should be standing in the zone, whether you should tack or corral or where you should pass the ball, it creates hesitancy which lowers intensity. It has been getting better since Rnd 1 and the day it clicks will be our first win.

Don't underestimate how quickly it turns once the team gets on the same page. Hawks were a 0-5 rabble at the start of last year and are now seen as a benchmark for intensity.

 

[Bacchus]

I’ve actually been really impressed with mini in his post game pressers, despite having to front up immediately post game seems to have a very good grasp of what went well, what didn’t and what they need to work on.

I feel for him as his biggest problem is the same it’s been for the past four years. We just don’t have enough players who can halve a contested ball, let alone outcompete a player and break a line.

6-6-6 changed the game, you can’t expect to sit out in space while your team wins the ball for you and makes you look good all day, if you’re doing that your opponent runs rampant and then shuts you down on defence because he’s willing to work both ways.

Cole
Cripps
Hunt
Owies
Long
Dewar
Duggan
Maric

All these players are just receivers who need the ball to be won for them. If you put them one v one with a player in front of them with or without the ball I’d back the other player to outcompete them 9/10 times and either stop them or run past them.

I expect this was a big reason in prioritising Bo Allen despite him likely to compound our skill deficiency but what do you do in minis position right now? You can’t drop 8 players.

List still needs a real big turnover too many mid/undersizers who can’t get the defensive side right but then don’t have the athletic/skill capability to damage on the offensive side.

Tom Gross must play in this side, outworks a lot of these players and has the tenacity to win 1v1s which lifts his peers. Only excuse is load management, there’s no other possible reason not to have him in.

Absolutely agree. We are trying to develop a midfield and Gross is one of our most promising and must be played if fit.

Has speed, dash, aggression and sure ball handling. Don’t understand his omission.

 

[BSD]

yes and no.

Harley is being given the toby greene school of umpiring treatment.

they call his 50/50 frees whereas they put the whistle away when he's copped it.

theres only so much you can hold it in before giving it back.

Why in the hell doesn't the club complain in the media like Hardwick and the Scott sisters do. Name and Shame and back it with videos of the crap Harley unfairly cops.
No point in complaining behind closed doors, Mama Kane doesn't listen and she supports the umpires even when they are wrong, just like she did last year with the holding the ball decision against Elliot Yeo.
If we cop a fine so what, we can afford it.

 

[Grahame]

I'd love to see a decent footy analyst go through the vision from start to finish and highlight passages of play that led to opposition goals.

Yep agree. Also like an analyst look at our opportunities.

I think Waterman lost two marks near goal due to turnover frees. Plus we missed a couple of ‘easy’ gettable goals due to poor kicking - which is a luxury we can’t afford.

Those are goals missed due to our errors.

(Plus as a lower side you hope for a fair run with the umpires … like the gimme 50m leading to a Hawk goal.)

 

[Obeanie1]

Don't get some of the Flynn negativity. 10 CP's and 5 intercepts, not bad for a Ruck.
Was the highest rated player on the ground at 20, Meek was 8th at 14.5.
Yes Meek had double the hit outs, with 13 more contests, but went at 36% TA where Flynn went at 46%.
Only his second game in a row and will improve with each game, Albeit Gawn this week will be a test.

What did we say or do to the Umpires at the start of the year, I don't get it.
We get arm chopped, scragged, blocked, pushed out etc etc and play on. Breathe on the opponent and give away a free.
We got ripped at least 3 inside 50 marks for at the very most a 50/50 iffy decision.
The one where Scrimshaw collapsed like a pack of cards was bad. Had he have held his ground Ryan would have at the least got to the ball. And the blatant throws, geez.
Didn't cost us the game or anything, our poor decision making and skill level took care of that, but please is it too much to ask for a hint of fair an even umpiring.

The teams in 18th get the crap umpires.

So better get used to it for a bit longer.

 

[Obeanie1]

Absolutely agree. We are trying to develop a midfield and Gross is one of our most promising and must be played if fit.

Has speed, dash, aggression and sure ball handling. Don’t understand his omission.

Hough playing midfield may be why?

Was wondering if Hough would be given a crack.

Did Gross play sub the previous week?

Maybe wanted him to get a full game, not two weeks in a row as sub.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

Don't get some of the Flynn negativity. 10 CP's and 5 intercepts, not bad for a Ruck.

His direct opponent had 60 hitouts, 4 clearances, 19 disposals and received 9 coaches votes.

His direct opponent was BOG, that's why it's being viewed negatively.

 

[TY24]

Absolutely agree. We are trying to develop a midfield and Gross is one of our most promising and must be played if fit.

Has speed, dash, aggression and sure ball handling. Don’t understand his omission.

It has to be something to do with his ability to run out the game. That’s all I can really think of.

Debuting as early as he did shows the MC clearly rate his talent. When he builds the tank he’ll be a lock.

 

[flyinghi64]

His direct opponent had 60 hitouts, 4 clearances, 19 disposals and received 9 coaches votes.

His direct opponent was BOG, that's why it's being viewed negatively.

Still don't agree with the negativity.
Had the same amount of clearances, 3 less disposals, 1 extra mark and one contested that Leek didn't have.
So yes 58 hit outs to 26 was the main difference and for ruck that stands out obviously, even if he went at a lower hit out to advantage %.

 

[Chris_6678]

Hawk’s low blows against Eagles land major fine

Hawthorn forward Jack Ginnivan has been offered a fine after a replay spread on social media revealed him lashing out at Eagle Jack Graham with a kick to the groin at Marvel Stadium on Sunday. SEE the video.

thewest.com.au

 

[Bender_]

Hawk’s low blows against Eagles land major fine

Hawthorn forward Jack Ginnivan has been offered a fine after a replay spread on social media revealed him lashing out at Eagle Jack Graham with a kick to the groin at Marvel Stadium on Sunday. SEE the video.

thewest.com.au

Damn social media, now how can they pretend they didn't see it?

Just to be safe, better fine McGovern too.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

Still don't agree with the negativity.
Had the same amount of clearances, 3 less disposals, 1 extra mark and one contested that Leek didn't have.
So yes 58 hit outs to 26 was the main difference and for ruck that stands out obviously, even if he went at a lower hit out to advantage %.

I agree he was good around the ground, but I understand the frustration about his game. If I had a choice between Meek's game and Flunn's game I'm taking Meeks every day.

Meeks dominance in the ruck over Flynn was the single biggest difference maker in terms of match ups.

We were Flynn was -32 in hit outs, that led to 51-40 deficit in first possession, and Hawks turned that first possession advantage into a +9 clearance advantage. Both teams were equal in terms of turning first possession in to a clearance, but Hawks just got so many more opportunities off a dominant ruck.

That clearance dominance, leads to field position where Hawks +1000 metres gained compared to West Coast.

When you look at the stats, the impact Meek had on the outcome becomes very clear and that's why people view Flynn's game negatively. All those stats you mentioned about 3 less disposals 1 extra mark are a distraction. They're superfluous, they don't matter nearly as much as the impact Meek had in the ruck.






Meek won 58 hit outs from 96 ruck contests (60% win rate) and had 21 HIT OUTS TO ADVANTAGE. They're numbers that Nic Nat would be proud of. By contrast, Flynn had 83 ruck contests, for 26 hit outs (31% win rate) and only 12 hit outs to advantage. That is pure ruck dominance.



Flynn doesn't have to be the reason we win, but he can't let his opponent be the reason they win, and yesterday Meek was the single biggest difference.

 

[lmach]

Some people need to remember the last two times we played Hawthorn we lost by 116 in 2023 (they finished 16th) and 61 last year. We kicked 3 more goals yesterday than we kicked in both of those games combined.

So while we're still really shit, you can't say we've gotten worse.

 

[Citizen Erazed]

This bit was pretty damning

"What jumped out most to me from the cheap seats… is that West Coast don’t run to create for each other. They jog, and this was particularly evident in the first quarter. At this point of the game, the players should be up and about, ready to run through a brick wall for the jumper. However, what I continued to see is that few were willing to work hard to find space, and it was generally on a broken play that the Eagles were able to break through the Hawthorn defensive setup."

Yep. The jogging and lack of movement is shocking and immediately observable from the cheap seats each week, with a few exceptions e.g. Liam Ryan running TOWARDS goal. Waterman's constant efforts, Baker.

Some comments about Maric running for 'cheap' stats is amusing as he is one of the only players who actually tries to find space and can use the ball. I saw Duggan multiple times look straight at him when open, flip him the bird and then proceed to hoof it down the line to the opposition. No exaggeration.

 

[Time To Hunt]

After 7 rounds we’ve played 2,3,4,6,9,11,12 on the ladder.

If you can’t see the improvement then you’re not paying attention and if the score board is the only thing that matters to you then you’re going to be quite miserable following this team this year, next year and probably the year after that too.

It’s all about winning and losing in this game is it not? We’ve been losing for 3-4 years already and look like doing so for another 3-4 years, so no I don’t believe we’re improving.

 

[Time To Hunt]

We're actually getting better.

Most would've penciled that in as an 80pt loss. Other than a few umpire assisted cheapies(like most of the game), the scoreline was very respectable.

We also managed to put the hurt on a few of their better players, this improving the chance of a Hawks loss next week.

Are you suggesting we actually had a win then, to the tune of 5-6 goals? Is that what we’ve become, accepting of “honourable losses”.

 

[southcoast]

Ginnivan fined ~$6200 for kicking (twice) Graham.

Can be reduced to ~$3700 with early plea.

 

[Smeg Head]

Ginnivan fined ~$6200 for kicking (twice) Graham.

Can be reduced to ~$3700 with early plea.

Pissweak for such a deliberate dog act from ginnipig