Autopsy Round 7 - Geelong Cats vs GWS Giants, 7.50 pm Friday 4 May 2018 @ GMHBA Stadium

[KevDawg]

Agree with you General, I don’t feel better this morning.
Moving Finlayson up the ground, great, LC had to try something, but he’s put another player into a role with players around him that aren’t used to him being there.
Throw in Buckley, Keefe, Shipley, and no one understands how the others are going to play in the team.
I don’t know whether moving Finlayson, or anyone else for that matter, with that going on was the best idea.
Should you keep players in their current positions when you have more than 4 newbies coming in?

 

[dlanod]

Mate please, the spirit of that post was Boxer being a blind follower, it had zero to do with Hitler!! I mean FFS.

Ok, so you don't know that Animal Farm is an allegory on communism in the USSR and Boxer are the people blindly following the mass murderer, Stalin. Maybe bear that in mind next time you choose to compare people to it.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Agree with you General, I don’t feel better this morning.
Moving Finlayson up the ground, great, LC had to try something, but he’s put another player into a role with players around him that aren’t used to him being there.
Throw in Buckley, Keefe, Shipley, and no one understands how the others are going to play in the team.
I don’t know whether moving Finlayson, or anyone else for that matter, with that going on was the best idea.
Should you keep players in their current positions when you have more than 4 newbies coming in?

We came badly unstuck no doubt, and the structures didn't work. But when Finlayson went forward the game was lost. I've been thinking being more expansive tactically is a good sign, and it probably is. Last night showed what can happen when it goes awry I think. The outs forced changes to the structure, but a conservative approach would have been pick the best ruck, probably Dawson and leave Patton and Himmelburg forward.

Patton had a mare in any case and Himmelburg is down too, structures can't fix that.

 

[dlanod]

My issue is moreso when we have a big injury toll, that we just don’t put up any fight - I was expecting a loss, Geelong at the Cattery is one of the toughest trips, but when we look to our leader (Leon) to get the lads up for this and put a performance in for the fans.... it’s just not up to scratch IMO.

Agree with this.

I was expecting a loss - we don't play Geelong (or Adelaide) well and doubly so away. But that insipid, panicked display where little was done to try to change what was going out on the field was awful.

The loss of some of our most skillful players and best contested marks hurt, but we should accept that and work around it, not beat our head on the wall of high kicks into forward 50 over and over, or terrible decisions to cross the ball over our defensive 50 to a contested situation, or a dozen other made scenarios that kept reoccuring.

I think a couple of the guys improved in my opinion because they were cracking in until the last (Taranto and Shiel) especially, but so many others put the cue in the rack at half time, and others simply weren't any good like Keeffe.

 

[dlanod]

Heath Shaw needs to retire ASAP

I wouldn't mind seeing Kennedy or Buntine take his spot. Davis is a credible general back there now and I think Shaw has hit that tipping point from good disposal with occasional clanger to too many clangers because he thinks he's still got it.

 

[dlanod]

I note the MB thread abusing Leon by a Giants poster has been deleted entirely. That was really disappointing to me.

There's no way to delete the first post but retain the thread. Given I'm willing to guess who the poster was and what he probably put in that first post, it probably warranted deletion even if the thread concept didn't.

 

[dlanod]

And no my annoyance hasnt settled with some sleep.

I've actually gotten more annoyed after sleeping on it.

 

[Andre the Giant]

Ok, so you don't know that Animal Farm is an allegory on communism in the USSR and Boxer are the people blindly following the mass murderer, Stalin. Maybe bear that in mind next time you choose to compare people to it.

I absolutely know that and loved the book. The comparison was purely based on character traits of Boxer and old mate.

This is PC gone bananas.

 

[KevDawg]

I wouldn't mind seeing Kennedy or Buntine take his spot. Davis is a credible general back there now and I think Shaw has hit that tipping point from good disposal with occasional clanger to too many clangers because he thinks he's still got it.

Shaw used to look good taking that microsecond extra before clearing the ball. Now that extra time just gets a smother or a pressure kick that goes out.

 

[KevDawg]

Was Selwood stepping and leaving his foot on Shiel’s foot deliberate and did it cause injury, impacting Dylan’s game?

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

There's no way to delete the first post but retain the thread. Given I'm willing to guess who the poster was and what he probably put in that first post, it probably warranted deletion even if the thread concept didn't.

Your right on both counts. I'm delighted the mods did it but probably for a different reason. To me it's the equivalent of supporters booing their team. I can't abide that . On our board criticism can't and shouldn't be taboo, but some of it here crossed the line into abuse. Not much I can do, but I will criticise it.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

I right in saying that Hopper is barely noticeable on the field. Slow, no tank, average kick and doesn’t rack up big numbers. Why did we keep him?

Hopper had 17 disposals last night 11 contested and went at 82% disposal efficiency (14 effective), with 1 clanger.
Coniglio had 28 disposals, 10 contested and went at 32% DE (9 effective) with 10 clangers.

You might not have noticed him and stats don’t tell the whole story but looks to me that Hopper had a better game than Cogs - at least he didn’t butcher the ball like everyone else.

Maybe he was barely noticeable because he just went about his business and didn’t f#*k it up.

 

[Andre the Giant]

Was Selwood stepping and leaving his foot on Shiel’s foot deliberate and did it cause injury, impacting Dylan’s game?

It was a bit weird how he kept his foot there. Looked very ordinary.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

You’re allowed to drop your knees on Giants players without fear of the MRP - a little foot stomping won’t even be glanced at.

 

[dlanod]

Hopper had 17 disposals last night 11 contested and went at 82% disposal efficiency (14 effective), with 1 clanger.
Coniglio had 28 disposals, 10 contested and went at 32% DE (9 effective) with 10 clangers.

You might not have noticed him and stats don’t tell the whole story but looks to me that Hopper had a better game than Cogs - at least he didn’t butcher the ball like everyone else.

Maybe he was barely noticeable because he just went about his business and didn’t f#*k it up.

He was pretty invisible to me too but it almost felt like we needed him and Ward spending 100% time on ball against these harder midfields like Geelong and Adelaide. We end up feeling quite passive some of the time compared to when Ward was the #1 mid surrounded by a bunch of real kids - almost like everyone is expecting everyone else to have a go before they have to.

 

[Ellie Aquitaine]

One thing I couldn’t tell from last night’s game was how on earth Geelong seemed to have extra men everywhere.

Obviously some guys had run with roles, but Geelong seemed to be playing an extra defender, midfielder and forward.

Who wasn’t running?

 

[dlanod]

One thing I couldn’t tell from last night’s game was how on earth Geelong seemed to have extra men everywhere.

Obviously some guys had run with roles, but Geelong seemed to be playing an extra defender, midfielder and forward.

Who wasn’t running?

Our zone work was pretty poor which played a part - a Geelong player would mark in our zone and we'd end up with two or three guys manning the mark, resulting in overlaps elsewhere.

I didn't see Geelong having an extra forward, though we plainly didn't have an extra man in defence like Geelong did, but moderately often I saw guys like Finlayson avoid jumping for a contest leaving us outnumbered in the air.

I assume we were playing an extra man in the middle and defense about 50/50 but neither gave us a heap of advantage - Haynes had a couple of moments and that was it.

 

[Gigantic]

Was Selwood stepping and leaving his foot on Shiel’s foot deliberate and did it cause injury, impacting Dylan’s game?

I didn't see the incident but didn't Sicily do something like this a couple weeks ago and copped a week suspension?

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

I didn't see the incident but didn't Sicily do something like this a couple weeks ago and copped a week suspension?

sicily also dropped his knees and got a week.

johnson & white drop theirs - play on. not even looked at to be dismissed.

different rules for sicily and for us.

the real test will be if he does something against us. will they go after him because he's sicily or leave him alone because it's us.

 

[KevDawg]

I didn't see the incident but didn't Sicily do something like this a couple weeks ago and copped a week suspension?

Sicily looked down and stepped whereas Scott Selwood initially places the foot down but normal, non-cheating players would probably lift it off. He seems to leave his weight on it. He doesn’t shift onto it but he doesn’t try and lift off either.

 

[KevDawg]

Our zone work was pretty poor which played a part - a Geelong player would mark in our zone and we'd end up with two or three guys manning the mark, resulting in overlaps elsewhere.

I didn't see Geelong having an extra forward, though we plainly didn't have an extra man in defence like Geelong did, but moderately often I saw guys like Finlayson avoid jumping for a contest leaving us outnumbered in the air.

I assume we were playing an extra man in the middle and defense about 50/50 but neither gave us a heap of advantage - Haynes had a couple of moments and that was it.

I am not a fan of the zone. When it starts getting picked apart, coaching should change to man on man. Just imo.

 

[Giant Strides]

Sicily looked down and stepped whereas Scott Selwood initially places the foot down but normal, non-cheating players would probably lift it off. He seems to leave his weight on it. He doesn’t shift onto it but he doesn’t try and lift off either.

Yes, that's what I saw. He must have known that he was on Shiel's foot - Shiel was trying to pull away - but just held it there and seemed to put his weight down on it to hold Shiel in place. I don't know if that's actually against any rule, but certainly in terms of potentially injuring a player it is undesirable conduct.

 

[Giant Pete]

Hopper had 17 disposals last night 11 contested and went at 82% disposal efficiency (14 effective), with 1 clanger.
Coniglio had 28 disposals, 10 contested and went at 32% DE (9 effective) with 10 clangers.

You might not have noticed him and stats don’t tell the whole story but looks to me that Hopper had a better game than Cogs - at least he didn’t butcher the ball like everyone else.

Maybe he was barely noticeable because he just went about his business and didn’t f#*k it up.

Except I’m not talking about one game. He averages 19 disposals and 3 tackles a game. He’s three years in and has barely improved.
That was about Cogs first bad game for a while.

 

[precarious]

Your right on both counts. I'm delighted the mods did it but probably for a different reason. To me it's the equivalent of supporters booing their team. I can't abide that . On our board criticism can't and shouldn't be taboo, but some of it here crossed the line into abuse. Not much I can do, but I will criticise it.

There may be a bit of falling into the Vic media narrative as well that the giants are packed full with talent so that anything less than a string of flags would be pathetic and any such string of flags thoroughly undeserved in any case. A catch-22 by design.

As we all know, the draft system and method of introduction of the suns and giants was agreed to by the clubs. If they thought it was so outlandish, they wouldn't have agreed to it.

In reality, high draft picks are no guarantee of star players, let alone flags.

If the giants don't win a premiership with this generation of players, I won't be surprised. Of course, hopefully they do. Either way, there is no reason to buy into the Vic media spin on what happens.

The Melbourne media and AFL may believe they are dividing and conquering by whipping up interstate rivalries. It remains to be seen if this will be effective. Looking at the five-city TV ratings breakdown last night, it may be having some effect in that numbers dropped away badly everywhere but Melbourne, perhaps suggesting that the Vic audience has been influenced into thinking the giants are much better than they are, making a giants loss somewhat interesting, whereas the rest of the country, with a less inflated opinion of the giants, may have been less inclined to watch a blowout. The giants are rarely shown on free-to-air TV in Victoria, so the media can largely portray the team however it likes without the portrayal necessarily seeming ridiculous to the intended audience.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

There may be a bit of falling into the Vic media narrative as well that the giants are packed full with talent so that anything less than a string of flags would be pathetic and any such string of flags thoroughly undeserved in any case. A catch-22 by design.

As we all know, the draft system and method of introduction of the suns and giants was agreed to by the clubs. If they thought it was so outlandish, they wouldn't have agreed to it.

In reality, high draft picks are no guarantee of star players, let alone flags.

If the giants don't win a premiership with this generation of players, I won't be surprised. Of course, hopefully they do. Either way, there is no reason to buy into the Vic media spin on what happens.

The Melbourne media and AFL may believe they are dividing and conquering by whipping up interstate rivalries. It remains to be seen if this will be effective. Looking at the five-city TV ratings breakdown last night, it may be having some effect in that numbers dropped away badly everywhere but Melbourne, perhaps suggesting that the Vic audience has been influenced into thinking the giants are much better than they are, making a giants loss somewhat interesting, whereas the rest of the country, with a less inflated opinion of the giants, may have been less inclined to watch a blowout. The giants are rarely shown on free-to-air TV in Victoria, so the media can largely portray the team however it likes without the portrayal necessarily seeming ridiculous to the intended audience.

Insightful post.
I've no doubt their is that agenda in Victoria. I'd suggest it is the football world in general which I think is what you meant anyway.
Interest that two of the people annoying me are Victorian residents. One though I believe is a very passionate supporter who won a competition to name the club.

My concern has been more the negativity from Melbourne might cause the club to "circle the wagons" metaphorically, and return the hate. Given we have a lot of Sydney resident members who support Melbourne clubs primarily that could hurt us.

You may be right though, lots of people have made lots of money and accumulated lots of power pounding a simple message until people accept it.

It is real, a number of players have referred to it. Also Interesting to me Leon refused to understand the intent of a question about whether we play as a team in the presser last night.