Review Round 8, 2019 - Western Bulldogs vs. Brisbane Lions

Who were your five best players against the Bulldogs?


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davemc_lions

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wonder if Fagan actually thinks dropping Walker although keeping Big O was the wrong move now. Allison should of played for Big O.
I did not think McStay or Hippy had a bad game. 2-5 not great kicking he got the ball. Rayner and Cameron went missing. McCarthy seemed pushed up the ground and I think Cameron as well filled in for Bailey. When Cameron not on we seem to loose.
It is not always the same guys each week.. just young players up and down.
A few guys just run one way so when the other team get a run on we get cut up. Does not show up as much when we running down hill.
Although will say never big on Witho in defence, I like my defenders to defend not wingers on half back flank. He just does not chase or tackle avg 1.4 tackles a game as a defender. Yes he gets on the end of chains to kick out of defence, great when we are on top. When they get a run on ends up a liability as his player is free.. Although not sure you drop him.
I know people say he and Rayner unfit some people just not super fast or long distance runners. It take a while they young or might not happen so accept what they are doing and hope they work on it..
Rich does the same job kicking as Witho, although Rich spoils, marks, tackles and puts his body in line and holes. The Rich 2-3 years ago played more like Witho does now. I hope someone is in his ear and he working on his defensive game. I was hoping Rich play up the ground this year although he has been one ofour best player most weeks. Killing it in the role.
I still think that is our 3 biggest problems are:
1) Quick defensive player... we have 2 great key backman now in Andrews/Walker. A good lock down defender Gardiner. A General Hodge. Richo players defensive/attacking role. Then Lester, Witho, Bailey or Answerth. None of them have shown they can run with and lock down a fast forward.
2) Someone who leads in or forward line so we do not just kick it to a pack and hope for a mark of the year in our forward line :) Sometimes we have 2-3 going for the same ball.
3) 2 Ruck just not working Martin gets a lot of the ball. Big O sort of stuck he does 1/4 of the game rucking then gets stuck in the forward line and not our first target. So we end up a small down for midfield rotations and get run out of defensive as teams player a smaller player against us
 

davemc_lions

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The small forwards don’t seem to be playing in front of the tall forward. Maybe hoping for cheapies out the back too often?
our small forwards all go for the mark of the year at the same time as Hipwood/McStay. Zorko and McCluggage only ones who stays down hence they getting a few goals.. You hope Rayner, Cameron and McCarthy would crumb more or tackle more.. They often jump for a ball they never get fall to the ground and the ball gets run out.
 

bungalow_bill

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Have to disagree with the notion that Rayner will become a mid. He’ll be in the De Goey, Petracca, Caddy mould and that is ok.
Agreed he is very much in the DeGoey mould - will play mostly forward with some stints in the middle depending on the game. We've seen glimpses of how dominant he could be in the middle.
 

martinson

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Agreed he is very much in the DeGoey mould - will play mostly forward with some stints in the middle depending on the game. We've seen glimpses of how dominant he could be in the middle.
I'm not oversure what he will end up being tbh just at the moment ,he's still a big kid isn't he.

There's a lot of pressure that comes with being the No.1 pick and he's feeling it whether that shows or not ,so we need to find some way of releasing that pressure for a while . It's a tough role he's playing at the moment as a deep small forward, there's nothing wrong with a spell in the twos ,nearly every player has been through it. It all gets down to whether we think we have anyone better in that role at present . You really hope he's going to rip a game apart but it's not happening any time soon.
 

lioninthesand

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I know formlines mean less this year than they ever have, dont need that reminder its still worth looking at them in some context. If you consider, we reasonably easily accounted for the Swans who (I felt were actually ok) who went on to step up againts Essendon. And belted GC who have gone onto push 2 mid level sides in WC and Melbourne. That says to me we are in that 6-8 bracket at the moment, one of the better middle tier teams. We thought both of those wins were nothing wins, tell that to Dons, WC and the dees right now. It also may actually be that the Dogs, who belted Richmond (who just pumped and inform Freo at home showing they might not be on a steep decline as the media started projecting) were on the start of an improved form arc. I think after the Dogs had.. GC and Blues loses, we all went in with expectations that the Dogs might be a bottom 4 side, but the Dogs may have dusted themselves off a little bit, I expect them to win a few up to the bye. I actually think we competed ok yesterday everything considered, had it been at the Gabba I reckon we win by 40 points. I think our form still stacks up better than we give credit for. The crows worry me, just their maturity and ability to limit scoring. I think (especially watching how poorly they defended the Tigers end to end) we will beat freo and I them remain hopeful about Hawks, Saints, Blues.

Comments about Stef being DONE (reminds me of Mitch Robbo last year) after 1 poor game in the wet are silly.

Suggestions we will now only win a few more games out if the 14 remaining seem reactionary.

I think we are an ok footy side, flawed and devaloping still in many ways, but well on the way.

The fluctuations have condensed to in game, once we iron that out, look out.
 

Clarkythelion

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I'm still buoyant about our season and progress. Our best footy is very good and exciting and we now show patches of it on most matches (maybe not against the Pies). We just have to put a full game of it together and we will tear someone's heart out. The other issues is getting everyone to fire at once, to often in games we have 3 or 4 passengers and they are not always the same players, we seem to have hot and cold from week to week. I hope we do see a game when we fire on all cylinders this year and its against a good side and blow them away by 70 odd points that will get us noticed and the media to stop calling us the cubs. We need to drop this "we are young yet" and believe our top end game is a competitive as anyone's this season.
 

Pacman82

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Our forwards really need to work on their goal kicking. I went along on Saturday worried that our ineffectiveness in front of goal could end up costing us the game only to have my worst fears come true.

So far we've got key fwd's C.Cameron's on 12.13, Hipwood 14.13, Cam Rayner 11.10 & upfield Berry's on 5.6 & Zorko's on 4.6, the list goes on. Naturally final scores look like 13.14 vs WB, 14.19 vs SYD, 16.15 vs GC, 8.13 vs COL, 9.11 vs ESS (it appears the rot started in round 4).

Fagan literally called out the boot studder during the presser but I'll be more interested to hear what he does to remedy our inaccuracy around the goals. IMO there's a mounting case to give Walker another run down fwd given his ability to put the ball thru the two big sticks.
 

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jackess

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Our forwards really need to work on their goal kicking. I went along on Saturday worried that our ineffectiveness in front of goal could end up costing us the game only to have my worst fears come true.

So far we've got key fwd's C.Cameron's on 12.13, Hipwood 14.13, Cam Rayner 11.10 & upfield Berry's on 5.6 & Zorko's on 4.6, the list goes on. Naturally final scores look like 13.14 vs WB, 14.19 vs SYD, 16.15 vs GC, 8.13 vs COL, 9.11 vs ESS (it appears the rot started in round 4).

Fagan literally called out the boot studder during the presser but I'll be more interested to hear what he does to remedy our inaccuracy around the goals. IMO there's a mounting case to give Walker another run down fwd given his ability to put the ball thru the two big sticks.
Walker kicked 10 goals in his last 15 games as a forward. There was a reason he was almost delisted.
 

Nunez

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This loss is nowhere near as bad as some are making it out to be. We lost this one due to inaccuracy. Should have been up by 24-30 at half time and forced them to chase. At worst we'd have lost the third and remained a goal up. We ended up winning the fourth and would have likely won the game. I am sure after the last three weeks of missed gettable shots, the coaching staff will be onto the players to practice.

We've got very easy fixes to improve on leading into Adelaide. Still fifth on the ladder after 8 weeks and we know how far away our ceiling is. Plenty of development left to be had and we have the right coach to guide us there.
 

Pacman82

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Walker kicked 10 goals in his last 15 games as a forward. There was a reason he was almost delisted.
He was our leading goal kicker a few years back, averages 2 outta 3 shots, there's a spot in the fwd pocket that no one's cemented, he couldn't possibly dish out anything worse than what we've seen over the past month you'd think!
 
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Do we even still have a boot studder? With all moulded souls now wouldn't it be down to individual players and their endorsements regarding boot choice?
 

jackess

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He was our leading goal kicker a few years back, averages 2 outta 3 shots, there's a spot in the fwd pocket that no one's cemented, he couldn't possibly dish out anything worse than what we've seen over the past month you'd think!
Even that year he spent time in the reserves.
 

Nunez

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Do we even still have a boot studder? With all moulded souls now wouldn't it be down to individual players and their endorsements regarding boot choice?
I doubt we do. I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if it's a the players responsibly and they didn't bring the right stops for their shoes.
 

Pacman82

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Do we even still have a boot studder? With all moulded souls now wouldn't it be down to individual players and their endorsements regarding boot choice?
A good question for Lions Insider, surely there'd be someone responsible for the condition & storage of the players boots.
 
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Our forwards really need to work on their goal kicking. I went along on Saturday worried that our ineffectiveness in front of goal could end up costing us the game only to have my worst fears come true.

So far we've got key fwd's C.Cameron's on 12.13, Hipwood 14.13, Cam Rayner 11.10 & upfield Berry's on 5.6 & Zorko's on 4.6, the list goes on. Naturally final scores look like 13.14 vs WB, 14.19 vs SYD, 16.15 vs GC, 8.13 vs COL, 9.11 vs ESS (it appears the rot started in round 4).

Fagan literally called out the boot studder during the presser but I'll be more interested to hear what he does to remedy our inaccuracy around the goals. IMO there's a mounting case to give Walker another run down fwd given his ability to put the ball thru the two big sticks.

Respectfully disagree Pacman. So far this year, we have kicked more goals than points and won 5 games out of 8 thus far. I am sure you know that ALL our forwards diligently work on their goalkicking every week. 99 times out of 100 their miss's in front of goal are from game fatigue/pressure rather than technique/skill level. Saturday was cold-wet-windy and conditions we rarely play in or would chose to play in. Suffice to say...not ideal for goal kicking. We played against a side that applied constant pressure and were more conditioned to play in those types of climates. We also had several smalls playing who simply didn't contribute anywhere close to an acceptable level as a team.
In my opinion we came up short against the Bulldogs because we didnt have contributions and efforts from several players which exposed us enough for our opposition to win. Not because of our goalkicking
 

a mayes ing

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concerned about Rayner
he just can't get near the footy for a team with fairly high inside 50 count
Cameron and mcarthy at least provide defensive pressure actual or perceived
Rayner needs to lose some weight an get ripped like De Goey
I don't think anyone can say DeGoey is ripped, i still think he looks a bit tubby in the belly tbh
 

Pacman82

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Respectfully disagree Pacman. So far this year, we have kicked more goals than points and won 5 games out of 8 thus far. I am sure you know that ALL our forwards diligently work on their goalkicking every week. 99 times out of 100 their miss's in front of goal are from game fatigue/pressure rather than technique/skill level. Saturday was cold-wet-windy and conditions we rarely play in or would chose to play in. Suffice to say...not ideal for goal kicking. We played against a side that applied constant pressure and were more conditioned to play in those types of climates. We also had several smalls playing who simply didn't contribute anywhere close to an acceptable level as a team.
In my opinion we came up short against the Bulldogs because we didnt have contributions and efforts from several players which exposed us enough for our opposition to win. Not because of our goalkicking
I agree that overall effectiveness inside 50 comes down to more than just goal kicking accuracy, clearly we had some small fwd's go missing & the slippery conditions didn't help either.. We tried using the wings too much during the 2nd half, no confidence to use the corridor..
 

a mayes ing

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I agree that overall effectiveness inside 50 comes down to more than just goal kicking accuracy, clearly we had some small fwd's go missing & the slippery conditions didn't help either.. We tried using the wings too much during the 2nd half, no confidence to use the corridor..
Yeah, maybe part of it is since we are going down the wings we are tending to get marks around the 50 on the corners rather than more in the middle. Doesn't excuse when we do mark it 30m out on a bit of an angle (McStay and Cameron). Dont care if you are exhausted or there is pressure, you should be getting those 9 times out of 10 like every other footballer
 
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Not sure how the Herald Sun found a vote for Naughton in the game. He never touched it in the first half and took advantage of a tired Andrews in the second half to kick 3 goals. The same amount of goals Mitch Robinson kicked. One more than Zorko kicked who also had 28 disposals. More Victorian bias.
 

T Rick

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Not sure how the Herald Sun found a vote for Naughton in the game. He never touched it in the first half and took advantage of a tired Andrews in the second half to kick 3 goals. The same amount of goals Mitch Robinson kicked. One more than Zorko kicked who also had 28 disposals. More Victorian bias.
Yep but in the end he was probably the difference and even Fages referred to his performance in the second half as "matchwinning"...
 
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