Review Round 8, 2020 - Brisbane Lions vs. Melbourne

[Lions99991]

According to whom?



He does, the scratch matches. Do you know how he has gone recently?

Considering they're not covered, no one does. And Fagan has gone on record saying that he's sticking to his team. Regardless of form. So Skinner's lack of inclusion isn't a result of his form.

Premier forward in pre-season? What games were you watching? If he was that good, he would have been given a game in the Marsh Community series. Like Ballenden, McFadyen, Ely Smith were. You're saying he was the premier forward but was realistically 3rd behind Ballenden & McFadyen?

If you were part of the forward line that propelled your team to 2nd place on the ladder and be the highest scoring team for an entire season, would you feel it's fair if some forward who wasn't even the best tall in the pre-season gets your spot after a couple of pre-season scratch matches? Care to explain how that is fair?

Have you been listening to the ABC? Have you been watching our games, or even listening to commentators? Our biggest liability is our forward line. And the goals that you're talking about are coming from our small forwards, not McStay or Hipwood. Again, Skinner was the best performing forward in the preseason. Even the club went as far as to highlight in their preseason coverage, and the fact that you're downplaying his role and/or his ability tells me that you should actually read more into his games rather than projecting your own opinion.

 

[Sanchez365]

Alot of people getting into our key forwards about their goal kicking which is definitely warranted, but have a look at the time on ground and then think about the number of contests these guys are getting too. Its a big requirement for Skinner and not sure if he has the tank to run out 95%+ a game which might be what is holding him back. We can't afford to carry another low time on ground, esp with Archie running at 43%, less then Rich who spent most of the second half on the bench.

Tbh im surprised people aren't getting into Zorko a bit more about missed shots, he must of have 5 or 6 shots on goal for 1 major. Difficult shots sure but it's not like our mids have been super accurate in comparison to our keys.

As an aside that is a really poor return from Archie, to my eyes he looked gassed even when he was on the field so not sure what was going on. That seems extraordinarly low for a guy that's been in the system for 6-7 years?

 

[jackess]

Just ignore the troll.

 

[Lions99991]

Just ignore the troll.

Care to explain that my wanting Skinner and Ballenden to be given a chance is trollish?

 

[Nunez]

Care to explain that my wanting Skinner and Ballenden to be given a chance is trollish?

This guy reminds me of SFA BRAB

 

[jackess]

Care to explain that my wanting Skinner and Ballenden to be given a chance is trollish?

Were equal top and almost all of your posts have been negative and biased.

 

[snooplions]

Care to explain that my wanting Skinner and Ballenden to be given a chance is trollish?

Well one of them will get their chance in McStay's absence and we finally can see where they are at.

 

[Harris Specter]

Considering they're not covered, no one does. And Fagan has gone on record saying that he's sticking to his team. Regardless of form. So Skinner's lack of inclusion isn't a result of his form.

What rubbish. If Skinner could perform a role better than someone else in the senior team, he would be in the team. Do you really think the coaches are this naive to not put the best team forward capable of getting us a win each week?

Have you been listening to the ABC? Have you been watching our games, or even listening to commentators? Our biggest liability is our forward line. And the goals that you're talking about are coming from our small forwards, not McStay or Hipwood. Again, Skinner was the best performing forward in the preseason. Even the club went as far as to highlight in their preseason coverage, and the fact that you're downplaying his role and/or his ability tells me that you should actually read more into his games rather than projecting your own opinion.

Biggest liability is not our forward line. It's the goal kicking, which is not restricted to only Hipwood & McStay. What commentary are you listening to?
As someone pointed out before, do you know if Skinner has the tank to spend >95% time on ground making sure they get to each contest?

 

[Lions99991]

Well one of them will get their chance in McStay's absence and we finally can see where they are at.

I even stated that Mcstay provides fantastic pressure in the other thread, and I have never once called him a bad player. I think he's out of form. But go ahead. Call me a troll for calling a player out of form and wanting others to be given a chance.

 

[jackess]

I even stated that Mcstay provides fantastic pressure in the other thread, and I have never once called him a bad player. I think he's out of form. But go ahead. Call me a troll for calling a player out of form and wanting others to be given a chance.

Read the second half of this article from last week

Rayner rising: Comparing No.1 draft pick to Dusty is so 2017

Brisbane forward Cam Rayner is elevating his game through impact rather than by sheer statistics

www.afl.com.au

 

[haystark]

Not to be that person but the umpiring last night... good grief. We were constantly on the wrong end of the 50/50 calls and the 50m penalty against Zorko was comical. Melbourne supporters need to get a grip, the only reason they got as close as they did was because of favourable decisions on their behalf and our wayward goal kicking.

I’m glad McStay’s mark won it for us in the end because his kicking never will. His pressure at packs further up the ground is nothing to sneeze at but he’s a forward, he needs to kick goals, ditto for Hippy.

 

[luthor]

Considering they're not covered, no one does. And Fagan has gone on record saying that he's sticking to his team. Regardless of form. So Skinner's lack of inclusion isn't a result of his form.

Where and when has Fagan ever said " I am sticking to my team regardless of form"???

I'd be interested if you can provide a link.

Have you been listening to the ABC? Have you been watching our games, or even listening to commentators? Our biggest liability is our forward line. And the goals that you're talking about are coming from our small forwards, not McStay or Hipwood.

....and in other breaking news, Chris Fagan has been sacked, to be replaced immediately by the ABC commentary team

 

[martinson]

Fwiiw I think McStay is an improved player this year who is impacting contests more but because he drops off occasionally and misses a set shot some people overweight those negatives and down play all the positives. I've never seen a good set shot for goal with his left foot action which is far more suited to longer kicks on the run but he's working on it.

You could bring in another forward if you like but I'd still be playing him around the ground. He's big ,quick for his size and has the tank now.

I just can't see that the guys who'd replace him could impact the same number of contests but we might find out this week.

 

[Jimmy Two Hands]

I even stated that Mcstay provides fantastic pressure in the other thread, and I have never once called him a bad player. I think he's out of form. But go ahead. Call me a troll for calling a player out of form and wanting others to be given a chance.

Bruh we are like a couple of weeks away from McStay probably getting 3 votes against the top side and having national footy commentators single him out as a guy who could potentially tear the comp apart, and last night took the game winning contested mark.

But yet somehow you know he is objectively worse than a guy who has NEVER played senior footy?

 

[Brizzys Squizzy]

Care to explain that my wanting Skinner and Ballenden to be given a chance is trollish?

Ignore being called a troll. You're entitled to have a say, problem being some on here think they own the forum.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Its a big requirement for Skinner and not sure if he has the tank to run out 95%+ a game which might be what is holding him back. We can't afford to carry another low time on ground, esp with Archie running at 43%, less then Rich who spent most of the second half on the bench.

The answer seems pretty simple to me, drop Archie and replace him with Skinner. I could see the argument for playing Archie against NicNat and Gawn, but Essendon don't have a monster at ruck. That gets rid of the main advantage of Archie's presence, without that he's just a passenger.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Read the second half of this article from last week

I'm going to assume you're referring to this line:

We will never as a footy club, forward line or coaching group judge players on touches or goals.

Stats can certainly be overrated, especially the raw number of disposals. There's one stat that they really ought to pay attention to though, which is goalkicking accuracy. It nearly cost us this week. Seeing as this isn't a new problem, I'm sure they've been working on it in training for a while now, but it's still our Achilles heel. And it's to be expected that the mid/forwards running forward won't be the most accurate kicks for goal. Specialist forwards though, I want them to be more accurate than that.

Charlie's having an off year in terms of accuracy and Hipwood is still learning his craft. But I don't ever see McStay becoming an accurate kick for goal. I get that it isn't really his main responsibility, but the problem is, his presence as a permanent forward means less opportunities for other, more accurate talls to play there. I'm not sure we're using him in the best way, considering how good he's looked in the past few weeks when pushing back into the midfield and wings.

 

[martinson]

I'm going to assume you're referring to this line:

Stats can certainly be overrated, especially the raw number of disposals. There's one stat that they really ought to pay attention to though, which is goalkicking accuracy. It nearly cost us this week. Seeing as this isn't a new problem, I'm sure they've been working on it in training for a while now, but it's still our Achilles heel. And it's to be expected that the mid/forwards running forward won't be the most accurate kicks for goal. Specialist forwards though, I want them to be more accurate than that.

Charlie's having an off year in terms of accuracy and Hipwood is still learning his craft. But I don't ever see McStay becoming an accurate kick for goal. I get that it isn't really his main responsibility, but the problem is, his presence as a permanent forward means less opportunities for other, more accurate talls to play there. I'm not sure we're using him in the best way, considering how good he's looked in the past few weeks when pushing back into the midfield and wings.

Good point. I've always seen him as a backman. Prototype straight ahead, powerful , lovely field kick ,can jump ,spoil, tackling has improved.

I'm even wondering if he could ever be up to some M/F time in the next year or two. .He's going to struggle with set shots with his action because the natural impulse is to swing into it and because he's tried to temper that by straightening himself up he often skews it out to the left.

 

[Jimmy Two Hands]

I'm going to assume you're referring to this line:

Stats can certainly be overrated, especially the raw number of disposals. There's one stat that they really ought to pay attention to though, which is goalkicking accuracy. It nearly cost us this week. Seeing as this isn't a new problem, I'm sure they've been working on it in training for a while now, but it's still our Achilles heel. And it's to be expected that the mid/forwards running forward won't be the most accurate kicks for goal. Specialist forwards though, I want them to be more accurate than that.

Charlie's having an off year in terms of accuracy and Hipwood is still learning his craft. But I don't ever see McStay becoming an accurate kick for goal. I get that it isn't really his main responsibility, but the problem is, his presence as a permanent forward means less opportunities for other, more accurate talls to play there. I'm not sure we're using him in the best way, considering how good he's looked in the past few weeks when pushing back into the midfield and wings.

There does seem to be a lot hand wringing about our forward line and kicking for goal and its now getting a bit of media attention as a narrative to run with when talking about the Lions. But i will say this - despite accuracy issues, we have the number one attack in the competition. Saints are just behind us with a historically accurate record - which is more sustainable going forward? Both will regress to the mean.

With regards to McStay, I'm a big supporter of his and my post history supports that. While i do think concerns about his goal kicking are overblown (his career is 80.49) because of a couple of howlers infront of goal, I will acknowledge that he does lean back when kicking for goal and obviously lacks confidence from that awkward 20m distance. But his kicking mechanics are rock solid - so if its a confidence and repetition thing, whats better for him? Keep doing it under senior footy pressure I say, whilst we benefit from other parts of his game

 

[dlanod]

Ignore being called a troll. You're entitled to have a say, problem being some on here think they own the forum.

With my mod hat on:

In this particular case, sure he's on safe ground.

But he has also posted comments that are literal trolls by any definition of the word that he's had his knuckles rapped over, so I also don't think he should be arcing his back about being called a troll. The jury is still out.

 

[martinson]

With regards to our accuracy just pretend that you barrack for another team and watch them closely . In most cases you'd be tearing your hair out with some of the set shots.

I can understand the frustration of Melbourne supporters yesterday.

Because players these days are bracing for a tackle almost as soon as they get it there's a tendency to rush your snaps and shots on the run . McClug. Zorks and Charlie often have more time than they think and just a bit more composure in the forward line would improve our strike rate.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

With regards to McStay, I'm a big supporter of his and my post history supports that. While i do think concerns about his goal kicking are overblown (his career is 80.49) because of a couple of howlers infront of goal, I will acknowledge that he does lean back when kicking for goal and obviously lacks confidence from that awkward 20m distance. But his kicking mechanics are rock solid - so if its a confidence and repetition thing, whats better for him? Keep doing it under senior footy pressure I say, whilst we benefit from other parts of his game

What's better for him is playing to his strengths, not his weaknesses. If he has issues from 20m out, then logically you'd think he's better off playing around the 50m arc.

Mind you, I'm often wrong when I offer simplistic solutions.

 

[Section 5]

One of the places i look at figures for the game is Fanfooty.
They list the stats but also in the left hand side you get some brief comments on game performance.
On N. Jetta his stats were 1 kick i handball
But i liked the comment

"Off late in Q1 after headbutting the knee of Bailey...returned in Q2 but then headbutted the arm of McStay"

If he is cited can we admit this into evidence

 

[jackess]

I'm going to assume you're referring to this line:

Stats can certainly be overrated, especially the raw number of disposals. There's one stat that they really ought to pay attention to though, which is goalkicking accuracy. It nearly cost us this week. Seeing as this isn't a new problem, I'm sure they've been working on it in training for a while now, but it's still our Achilles heel. And it's to be expected that the mid/forwards running forward won't be the most accurate kicks for goal. Specialist forwards though, I want them to be more accurate than that.

Charlie's having an off year in terms of accuracy and Hipwood is still learning his craft. But I don't ever see McStay becoming an accurate kick for goal. I get that it isn't really his main responsibility, but the problem is, his presence as a permanent forward means less opportunities for other, more accurate talls to play there. I'm not sure we're using him in the best way, considering how good he's looked in the past few weeks when pushing back into the midfield and wings.

They have been doing goal kicking training but they probably nail most of their shots at training. Need to look at options to get the forwards to hold their technique eg. McStay leaning back which seems to be getting worse lately.

He's regularly been pushing up to wings over several seasons but I think the difference this year is he's holding more marks and getting involved more.

Unfortunately our goal kicking is unlikely to improve over the next couple of weeks with a lack of training, extra fatigue and playing at more open grounds.

 

[iBeng]

With my mod hat on:

In this particular case, sure he's on safe ground.

But he has also posted comments that are literal trolls by any definition of the word that he's had his knuckles rapped over, so I also don't think he should be arcing his back about being called a troll. The jury is still out.

We should have some sort of Court System for the forum!