Autopsy Round 8, 2020: Port Adelaide v St.Kilda *MEMBREY 100TH*

[Joffaboy]

AFL Round Eight: Saints’ Stoppages Prove Difference

(Feature image by Matt Turner/AFL Photos) We’re back into our Round by Round series this week, with a particular focus on St Kilda’s win over Port Adelaide. St Kilda recorded their seco…

thefootballextension.com

I highly recommend this article analysing some of our stoppage tactics. I learned new stuff about tactics (not something you can say every day from run of the mill 'analysis' articles).

Read it yourselves, but the key takeaways for me are (1) how well drilled we were, to ensure everyone was working in sync, and (2) how so much of the value of players is imperceptible to fans and generates no stats. Just one example from the above was Jones' running into congestion in order to open up space for Gresham at the outside of the stoppage (resulting in a goal). Jones' running pattern looks random, or like ball following, when watching live, but it was far from it.

Thanks for that, excellent read. Really puts into perspective what is missed purely watching games on TV. The Brad Hill decision to leave his man. I have watched the replay twice and didn't notice him do that, just the tackle itself. Was a great decision and these without the ball moves are unseen, also as you said the Jones running line for the tap to Gres who hits Marshall on the tit for a needed goal in the third. You only think great positioning by Gres and great tap by Ryder, hadn't even noticed Jones.

These moves must happen a thousand times a game, and as I said shows how deceptive TV can be while watching a game. It also shows how little the punter like us actually knows about setup, and gameplan and how it changes from week to week.

 

[FQFjt]

Thanks for that, excellent read. Really puts into perspective what is missed purely watching games on TV. The Brad Hill decision to leave his man. I have watched the replay twice and didn't notice him do that, just the tackle itself. Was a great decision and these without the ball moves are unseen, also as you said the Jones running line for the tap to Gres who hits Marshall on the tit for a needed goal in the third. You only think great positioning by Gres and great tap by Ryder, hadn't even noticed Jones.

These moves must happen a thousand times a game, and as I said shows how deceptive TV can be while watching a game. It also shows how little the punter like us actually knows about setup, and gameplan and how it changes from week to week.

Yep, and even how it changes mid game. Who knew that Ryder started by tapping it to the free sweeper on the defensive side, and once Port started manning up that position, he began tapping it out into space on the offensive side. Once it's pointed out, it all seems so logical, but it's clearly very good mid-game coaching and equally good execution (of course, before anything else you first need a dominant tap ruckman).

 

[Diehard Saint]

Yep, and even how it changes mid game. Who knew that Ryder started by tapping it to the free sweeper on the defensive side, and once Port started manning up that position, he began tapping it out into space on the offensive side. Once it's pointed out, it all seems so logical, but it's clearly very good mid-game coaching and equally good execution (of course, before anything else you first need a dominant tap ruckman).

Really good article, and good to have the accompanying vision to illustrate.

So basically, I guess our coaches actually DO know what they are doing.

 

[austinnn]

Great article, really interesting. It goes to show the importance of a decent ruckman and how much of our change in fortunes is down to the emergence of Rowan Marshall - and the acquisition of Paddy Ryder, an elite player we would have given our eye teeth for once.

Hindsight Harry here, but was it really worth getting rid of Ben McEvoy in order to pick up Savage and Dunstan? I know Big Ben had disappointed us before we finally cashed him in, but he proved his worth in a better system. If we had kept him maybe we wouldn't have needed to recruit all of Longer, Hickey, Pierce and Holmes. Ah well, nothing but history now.

And as that article points out, a great ruckman is pointless without a great stoppage playbook.

Still, I wonder if this playbook will stand up against better ruckmen.

AFL Round Eight: Saints’ Stoppages Prove Difference

(Feature image by Matt Turner/AFL Photos) We’re back into our Round by Round series this week, with a particular focus on St Kilda’s win over Port Adelaide. St Kilda recorded their seco…

thefootballextension.com

I highly recommend this article analysing some of our stoppage tactics. I learned new stuff about tactics (not something you can say every day from run of the mill 'analysis' articles).

Read it yourselves, but the key takeaways for me are (1) how well drilled we were, to ensure everyone was working in sync, and (2) how so much of the value of players is imperceptible to fans and generates no stats. Just one example from the above was Jones' running into congestion in order to open up space for Gresham at the outside of the stoppage (resulting in a goal). Jones' running pattern looks random, or like ball following, when watching live, but it was far from it.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Great article, really interesting. It goes to show the importance of a decent ruckman and how much of our change in fortunes is down to the emergence of Rowan Marshall - and the acquisition of Paddy Ryder, an elite player we would have given our eye teeth for once.

Hindsight Harry here, but was it really worth getting rid of Ben McEvoy in order to pick up Savage and Dunstan? I know Big Ben had disappointed us before we finally cashed him in, but he proved his worth in a better system. If we had kept him maybe we wouldn't have needed to recruit all of Longer, Hickey, Pierce and Holmes. Ah well, nothing but history now.

And as that article points out, a great ruckman is pointless without a great stoppage playbook.

Still, I wonder if this playbook will stand up against better ruckmen.

Trading Ben ( and pushing Nick Dal Santo out ) was ...
Good Strategy , Poor Execution.
Its like we got three times the value our old Holden was worth and used it to buy a P76, a Camira, and a Lada Niva .

What should have happened.
2012
Keep Pick 12 ( Tom Lee and 2 later picks back ) Draft Brody Grundy.
OK we keep the Hickey trade, because we don't "know" Brody will be good.

2013....Grundy is already better than Rhys Stanley or Tom Hickey.
We trade McEvoy.
We don't need Billy Longer we get Ben Brown instead.
We draft Crouch and Merrett instead of Acres and Dunstan.

Hell we were s**t at spotting talent.
Players we could have got with the pick we traded on Longer.
Rory Lobb
Toby Nankurvis
Ben Brown
John Ceglar

 

[mightymalaka]

Trading Ben ( and pushing Nick Dal Santo out ) was ...
Good Strategy , Poor Execution.
Its like we got three times the value our old Holden was worth and used it to buy a P76, a Camira, and a Lada Niva .

What should have happened.
2012
Keep Pick 12 ( Tom Lee and 2 later picks back ) Draft Brody Grundy.
OK we keep the Hickey trade, because we don't "know" Brody will be good.

2013....Grundy is already better than Rhys Stanley or Tom Hickey.
We trade McEvoy.
We don't need Billy Longer we get Ben Brown instead.
We draft Crouch and Merrett instead of Acres and Dunstan.

Hell we were sh*t at spotting talent.
Players we could have got with the pick we traded on Longer.
Rory Lobb
Toby Nankurvis
Ben Brown
John Ceglar

Harry Hindsight just called and wants his post back!

 

[gringo2011]

Trading Ben ( and pushing Nick Dal Santo out ) was ...
Good Strategy , Poor Execution.
Its like we got three times the value our old Holden was worth and used it to buy a P76, a Camira, and a Lada Niva .

What should have happened.
2012
Keep Pick 12 ( Tom Lee and 2 later picks back ) Draft Brody Grundy.
OK we keep the Hickey trade, because we don't "know" Brody will be good.

2013....Grundy is already better than Rhys Stanley or Tom Hickey.
We trade McEvoy.
We don't need Billy Longer we get Ben Brown instead.
We draft Crouch and Merrett instead of Acres and Dunstan.

Hell we were sh*t at spotting talent.
Players we could have got with the pick we traded on Longer.
Rory Lobb
Toby Nankurvis
Ben Brown
John Ceglar

I reckon Mc Evoy was more like a fully optioned Camry. Not very exciting but reliable and solid. Longer was a Great Wall, under powered, unreliable and rusty from new. Hickey is like a Tata or some third world commercial, no finesse and outdated from new.

 

[gringo2011]

Harry Hindsight just called and wants his post back!

Trout and Pelican ******* crazy mofos. They were the Jackson Pollock of list builders. Those campaigners could walk out of a florist with a bunch of turds in their hands.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Harry Hindsight just called and wants his post back!

We were paying people to have foresight.
They were meant to be good at deciding who was going to be a good footballer.
They were bad at it , really bad.

I'm a great believer in picking younger brothers.
Crouch, Merrett, Jones ,Selwood. OK Everett wasn't good or Claye Beams.

 

[mightymalaka]

Trout and Pelican ******* crazy mofos. They were the Jackson Pollock of list builders. Those campaigners could walk out of a florist with a bunch of turds in their hands.

lol
Expect to see it at a motion picture theatre coming out soon near you. The new Dumb and Dumber!
Trout and Pelican turd carrying Mofos! With a-hole Chi Fraser as their Florist manager.
Bound to have audiences rolling in the aisles!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I reckon Mc Evoy was more like a fully optioned Camry. Not very exciting but reliable and solid. Longer was a Great Wall, under powered, unreliable and rusty from new. Hickey is like a Tata or some third world commercial, no finesse and outdated from new.

Weller was a Hyundai Tiburon. Looked like it was powerful but wasn't really and had something funny about the rear end.

Here's Lonie

 

[SaintsSeptember]

lol
Expect to see it at a motion picture theatre coming out soon near you. The new Dumb and Dumber!
Trout and Pelican turd carrying Mofos! With a-hole Chi Fraser as their Florist manager.
Bound to have audiences rolling in the aisles!

Richo: "I've got one in a million chance of getting into Finals with these guys "
Pelican : "You mean there's a chance "?

 

[triggering bro]

This afternoon I watched the game again. I learnt that we are a completely different team. We are ruthless & clinical. We make the opposition pay with efficiency & accuracy in front of goal. We do the small things well such as little tap ons, bumps on players & play the percentages.

Structurally the team sets up perfectly putting themselves in positions to regain possession when they don’t have it & moving to appropriate positions to receive the ball. In the space of less than 12 months our players footy IQ has improved tenfold.

Players such as Paton & Coffield are now effective & reliable defenders. Players are playing the appropriate roles. Instead of Geary rebounding out of defence it is now Coffield, Clark & Paton. Geary is now playing an ultra defensive role which is perfect. Our midfield is gelling. Our forward line isn’t relying on Bruce or Membrey kicking 5. We now have an even spread.

Ratts has identified the appropriate roles for players & Rath has us playing high-IQ footy. We looked like the Hawthorn of old with regard to clinical efficiency & ruthlessness in front of goal. Amazing how a team of B graders become A graders when you correct your methodology.

In regards to individual performance, Paton’s 3rd quarter went close to a match winning performance. He was the one that really held up in defence when Port had about 10 forward 50 entries in 10 minutes. He should be in the votes.

 

[Mstr Strokesman]

We were paying people to have foresight.
They were meant to be good at deciding who was going to be a good footballer.
They were bad at it , really bad.

I'm a great believer in picking younger brothers.
Crouch, Merrett, Jones ,Selwood. OK Everett wasn't good or Claye Beams.

Very funny observation .Not sure in its validity but gets you thinking about siblings.
Daryl Cunningham,Justin Madden,Danny Frawley Neale Daniher, David Kernahan Darren Jarman,Phil Krakoeur Cain Kornes and Leigh Matthews.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Very funny observation .Not sure in its validity but gets you thinking about siblings.
Daryl Cunningham,Justin Madden,Danny Frawley Neale Daniher, David Kernahan Darren Jarman,Phil Krakoeur Cain Kornes and Leigh Matthews.

There is probably something to it.
Upbringing and younger brothers trying to outdo their elder brother.

 

[George]

 

[malevu]

"Hunter Clark is one of the top inside midfield prospects and shows clean hands and is composed around the stoppages"

Hunter Clark

DRAFT ANALYSIS: "Hunter Clark is one of the top inside midfield prospects and shows clean hands and is composed around the stoppages"

afl.draftcentral.com.au

"With St Kilda's first of two top 10 picks - for the first time since the Saints drafted Luke Ball and Xavier Clarke in 2001 - St Kilda added a star inside midfielder before selecting rebounding defender Nick Coffield a pick later.

Clark, 18, was one of the most consistent midfielders in the draft pool, starring in the TAC Cup with the Stingrays and in the national championships for Vic Country."

2017 NAB AFL Draft Pick No. 7: Hunter Clark

Dandenong Stingrays midfielder Hunter Clark is now a Saint after he was selected with pick No. 7 in Friday night’s NAB AFL Draft in Sydney.

www.saints.com.au

I rate Hunter Clark as our most talented player. His kicking skills are on a par with Hill, his evasiveness and ability to move through traffic is reminiscent of a young Banger Harvey and he's fearless in his attack on the ball. And he'll only get better.

Barring injury he'll be a 250 gamer, future AA and potential club captain.

 

[FQFjt]

I rate Hunter Clark as our most talented player. His kicking skills are on a par with Hill, his evasiveness and ability to move through traffic is reminiscent of a young Banger Harvey and he's fearless in his attack on the ball. And he'll only get better.

Barring injury he'll be a 250 gamer, future AA and potential club captain.

I agree with all that, but the thing that most impresses me about Hunter is his insane ball control - it's like he has the ball on the end of a string.

Reminds me a lot of Kyrie Irving. Check out this highlights video of Irving, and you'll see Hunter-esque glimpses.



(The play at 2:44 is especially Hunter-esque.)

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

We were paying people to have foresight.
They were meant to be good at deciding who was going to be a good footballer.
They were bad at it , really bad.

I'm a great believer in picking younger brothers.
Crouch, Merrett, Jones ,Selwood. OK Everett wasn't good or Claye Beams.

They had a few misses.

I know it doesn't fit in with the 'Pelchen/Trout/Bains' pile on but half of the team that is currently sitting 4th on the ladder were recruited under their regime.

Billings
Carlisle
Clark
Coffield
Gresham
Marshall
Membrey
Paton
Ross
Sinclair
Steele

Plus Long, Battle, Webster, Roberton, Savage, Lonie, Dunstan, etc that will either be back in the best 22 soon or are depth.

Really, really bad at identifying talent?

No. Missed a few and made a few poor calls as all clubs have and that have delayed the rebuild. Mind you there's very few of the decisions that didn't work out that were obvious blunders at that time.

They took a club with very few young talented players and gave us a foundation to build on. Go & check out the 2011 list and pick out the number of young guns we had beyond Stuv and McEvoy. All while compromised drafts and free agency made it a much longer haul to to a complete rebuild.

 

[dct66]

Great article, really interesting. It goes to show the importance of a decent ruckman and how much of our change in fortunes is down to the emergence of Rowan Marshall - and the acquisition of Paddy Ryder, an elite player we would have given our eye teeth for once.

Hindsight Harry here, but was it really worth getting rid of Ben McEvoy in order to pick up Savage and Dunstan? I know Big Ben had disappointed us before we finally cashed him in, but he proved his worth in a better system. If we had kept him maybe we wouldn't have needed to recruit all of Longer, Hickey, Pierce and Holmes. Ah well, nothing but history now.
...

Was David Rath in Clarko's ear when Hawthorn took Ben? Was Brett Ratten 'sitting at their feet' as, albeit a senior, assistant coach? Was David Rath in Ratt's ear when we took Paddy?

 

[puppy_dog7]

Very funny observation .Not sure in its validity but gets you thinking about siblings.
Daryl Cunningham,Justin Madden,Danny Frawley Neale Daniher, David Kernahan Darren Jarman,Phil Krakoeur Cain Kornes and Leigh Matthews.

Zak Jones..

 

[Tommy Wigs]

I reckon Mc Evoy was more like a fully optioned Camry. Not very exciting but reliable and solid. Longer was a Great Wall, under powered, unreliable and rusty from new. Hickey is like a Tata or some third world commercial, no finesse and outdated from new.

Wait, are you saying Longer is better than Hickey? This sounds like a debate that needs to be had. Let me tell you something young Jimmy ...

 

[gringo2011]

They had a few misses.

I know it doesn't fit in with the 'Pelchen/Trout/Bains' pile on but half of the team that is currently sitting 4th on the ladder were recruited under their regime.

Billings
Carlisle
Clark
Coffield
Gresham
Marshall
Membrey
Paton
Ross
Sinclair
Steele

Plus Long, Battle, Webster, Roberton, Savage, Lonie, Dunstan, etc that will either be back in the best 22 soon or are depth.

Really, really bad at identifying talent?

No. Missed a few and made a few poor calls as all clubs have and that have delayed the rebuild. Mind you there's very few of the decisions that didn't work out that were obvious blunders at that time.

They took a club with very few young talented players and gave us a foundation to build on. Go & check out the 2011 list and pick out the number of young guns we had beyond Stuv and McEvoy. All while compromised drafts and free agency made it a much longer haul to to a complete rebuild.

Trout was list manager in his last couple of years. He would be more to do with contracting like signing Mc Kenzie for years and developing a strategy for bringing in 25 half back flankers. Chris Libratore was our state recruiting manager for Victoria which is where Hunter, Coffield and Paton all come from funny enough. Might be why he's still at the club and Tony isn't

Seriously Trout and Pelican built a list and Satan came in in 2018 and since has moved on 24 of the players on the list when he arrived. Of the rest only 10 players are still getting regular games. I would say that their recruitment strategy is all but thrown away. They moved out a lot of players to get the players they did under that system as well. I'm glad we have seen the back of them both.

Pelican goes on the radio and pretends St Kilda never happened. Still claims to be the guy who built Port and Hawks premiership sides.

 

[gringo2011]

Wait, are you saying Longer is better than Hickey? This sounds like a debate that needs to be had. Let me tell you something young Jimmy ...

I'm no expert on third world commercial vehicles but I think both sound awful. Paddy and Roma are light years ahead of both.

 

[Connorn99]

Trout was list manager in his last couple of years. He would be more to do with contracting like signing Mc Kenzie for years and developing a strategy for bringing in 25 half back flankers. Chris Libratore was our state recruiting manager for Victoria which is where Hunter, Coffield and Paton all come from funny enough. Might be why he's still at the club and Tony isn't

Seriously Trout and Pelican built a list and Satan came in in 2018 and since has moved on 24 of the players on the list when he arrived. Of the rest only 10 players are still getting regular games. I would say that their recruitment strategy is all but thrown away. They moved out a lot of players to get the players they did under that system as well. I'm glad we have seen the back of them both.

Pelican goes on the radio and pretends St Kilda never happened. Still claims to be the guy who built Port and Hawks premiership sides.

McKenzie re-signed for 3 years last year didn't he?