Preview Round 8, 2021: Hawthorn v West Coast, Sunday 9th May @ 1:10pm

Remove this Banner Ad

Status
Not open for further replies.

Log in to remove this ad.

TylerDurden

Premium Platinum
Mar 5, 2007
13,686
39,669
Lou's Tavern
AFL Club
Hawthorn
What would Mitchell gain by doing that?
Mitchell's comments reflect reality, not bias.
Never said bias. It's a reflection that clearly Nash is up to it at VFL level.
I'm saying I've never seen it at AFL level.
That's OK, he's not alone. Plenty of footballers have struggled with the step up.
 

rogiebear93

Norm Smith Medallist
May 17, 2017
6,842
15,741
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Never said bias. It's a reflection that clearly Nash is up to it at VFL level.
I'm saying I've never seen it at AFL level.
That's OK, he's not alone. Plenty of footballers have struggled with the step up.
I get why he talks positively about Nash, his physical attributes are something that very few AFL players have. Unfortunately we change his role, that's why he looks like a fish out of water at AFL level.
 

Strapping Young Lad

previously grumbleguts
Apr 19, 2006
69,062
132,667
Your local Satanist Cabal
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Spurs, Socceroos
It’s pretty crazy that people here want to drop forwards and defenders for not being able to handle how third rate our midfield has been in either delivering them or protecting them from fast ball movement.

There is no way Clarkson and Co don’t know exactly what limitations our bookends have, and as a consequence recognize that the midfield needs to do its job for these groups to succeed.
 

savagelunchbox

I'm being followed by a moonshadow.
Jan 4, 2011
10,365
12,210
in the corner of a circle
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Mitchell is constantly pumping up Nash's tyres. Sounds like a classic case of being good at VFL level, but can never make the step up. Had 5 touches against the Dees 3 weeks ago, 1 tackle.
Got plenty of it in the 2nd half, but the quality of his usage is questionable, to say the least.

That's the thing, though. Nash can get it 20x and not do much with it and been talked about as good or effective, while Downie can get it half as many times, but each time he's getting it, he's hitting the target while in space and he's considered to have struggled.

Quantity =/= quality.
 

StillAtLarge

Norm Smith Medallist
May 12, 2015
6,710
13,682
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I get why he talks positively about Nash, his physical attributes are something that very few AFL players have. Unfortunately we change his role, that's why he looks like a fish out of water at AFL level.
Mark O'Connor is the type of player that I thought Nash could develop into. A lockdown defender on athletic mid-talls + small forwards with the occasional run with midfield role.
Not sure why we've persisted with the whole pressure forward thing. It's clearly not his go
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

darthmann

Club Legend
Jun 11, 2013
2,256
5,045
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
GSW
Morrison? No, he hasn't. Morrison has been one of the best disposers of the footy. He's improved a lot this season, looks a lot more composed and uses it well.

Phillips has been ok without being anything special.
yeah that's pretty much the only thing that he does better than Phillips at the minute, and maybe uncontested spread. a 6% disposal efficiency discrepancy is pretty big

however in the last three weeks Harry has had a fair bit less of the ball and didn't lay a tackle, a clearance or get a contested possession vs the Saints. I know that's not necessarily his role, but on the other wing Phillips had 9 contested touches, 3 tackles and a couple of clearances. I don't think either of them are playing particularly well and I wouldn't go dropping any of em.

That said I feel like Harry's form has dropped off a fair bit and he's struggling to get as involved in games in recent outings, whereas Phillips has been pretty much consistent.

Harry's first month was great — 20, 20, 19, 22 touches with quite a lot of marks and even 4 goals. He hasn't gotten over 17 disposals or kicked a goal since
 

Coathanger

Club Legend
Dec 1, 2006
1,576
1,295
Cairns
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
NY Yankees
yeah that's pretty much the only thing that he does better than Phillips at the minute, and maybe uncontested spread. a 6% disposal efficiency discrepancy is pretty big

however in the last three weeks Harry has had a fair bit less of the ball and didn't lay a tackle, a clearance or get a contested possession vs the Saints. I know that's not necessarily his role, but on the other wing Phillips had 9 contested touches, 3 tackles and a couple of clearances. I don't think either of them are playing particularly well and I wouldn't go dropping any of em.

That said I feel like Harry's form has dropped off a fair bit and he's struggling to get as involved in games in recent outings, whereas Phillips has been pretty much consistent.

Harry's first month was great — 20, 20, 19, 22 touches with quite a lot of marks and even 4 goals. He hasn't gotten over 17 disposals or kicked a goal since
Yep, Consistently butchering the ball.
 

darthmann

Club Legend
Jun 11, 2013
2,256
5,045
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
GSW
Yep, Consistently butchering the ball.
very intelligent and well-thought out response

can't believe I have to do this again but:

'the only players that avg more touches than Phillips with less clangers are Chad (2 less games played) Dimma, and Jars (only has 3 less)

his disposal efficiency is 72.1, which is rated as above avg by the AFL

he's not an elite ball-user, sure, but I feel like suggesting we drop him cos he turns it over a few times is pretty unfounded. he's been fine' *As of Round 6

EDIT: he also had a 6% higher DE last week vs the saints than Impey, so I imagine that the clangers stat is even closer now.
 

H00t

Team Captain
Sep 28, 2019
567
887
AFL Club
Hawthorn
When we play slow and slow teams down Morrison is fine as he can get to position and link up. When we try to play quick or teams transition fast Harry is exposed as he’s not damaging enough on the attack or quick enough to shut down the fast wingers.
I feel this is a lot of our team. We aren’t blessed for speed. Especially in the middle and wings where it is so important in the modern game.

Lucky west coast aren’t a quick team and like to slow up play with ball in hand. Worry for us if they start to take the game on though. Could get ugly quickly. Though that’s every game we can’t stop teams when they take the game on.
 

Brishawk

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 17, 2008
21,901
38,000
Brisvegas
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Mitchell is constantly pumping up Nash's tyres. Sounds like a classic case of being good at VFL level, but can never make the step up. Had 5 touches against the Dees 3 weeks ago, 1 tackle.
He just doesn’t seem to cope with the pace of play. If we bring him back we have to do it for a month to see if he can pick up the pace and then if he doesn’t you know all you need to know.
 

darthmann

Club Legend
Jun 11, 2013
2,256
5,045
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
GSW
When we play slow and slow teams down Morrison is fine as he can get to position and link up. When we try to play quick or teams transition fast Harry is exposed as he’s not damaging enough on the attack or quick enough to shut down the fast wingers.
i like harry and think he's been really composed and making good decisions. I can see him playing the Hendo role well. All I'm suggesting is it's much more likely we'd drop him over Phillips, and its unlikely we'd drop either of them at all.
 

savagelunchbox

I'm being followed by a moonshadow.
Jan 4, 2011
10,365
12,210
in the corner of a circle
AFL Club
Hawthorn
very intelligent and well-thought out response

can't believe I have to do this again but:

'the only players that avg more touches than Phillips with less clangers are Chad (2 less games played) Dimma, and Jars (only has 3 less)

his disposal efficiency is 72.1, which is rated as above avg by the AFL

he's not an elite ball-user, sure, but I feel like suggesting we drop him cos he turns it over a few times is pretty unfounded. he's been fine' *As of Round 6

EDIT: he also had a 6% higher DE last week vs the saints than Impey, so I imagine that the clangers stat is even closer now.
You can kick it out of defense and hit an opposition player on the tit standing by himself in 20m of space and it's not considered a clanger. Meanwhile, you can take a kick after the siren with the scores level and score a point to win the game and it's recorded as a clanger.

A clanger and an error are not the same thing.

Stop trying to use the clanger stat as an indicator of how well someone uses the ball.
 

Kuuz

Premiership Player
May 5, 2014
3,684
6,959
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Melbourne Victory TSM
i would be shocked if we dropped phillips

he's been better than Harry in the last month or so
Yes and no.

Phillips has accumulated more of the ball, but as evidenced in the last quarter last weekend, Harry is far better at delivering into the inside 50 than Phillips.

Harry's biggest issue has always been accumulation. He solves that, he will be a really good player for our team. He's a clever player and with ball in hand, is one of our better users at the minute. Reads the play pretty well too.
 

darthmann

Club Legend
Jun 11, 2013
2,256
5,045
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
GSW
Yes and no.

Phillips has accumulated more of the ball, but as evidenced in the last quarter last weekend, Harry is far better at delivering into the inside 50 than Phillips.

Harry's biggest issue has always been accumulation. He solves that, he will be a really good player for our team. He's a clever player and with ball in hand, is one of our better users at the minute. Reads the play pretty well too.
yeah they both have different strengths and weaknesses. They're both young enough to work on them and improve. As I've said I don't want to drop either, but there's been a lot of calls for one or the other (particularly Phillips) to be dropped. Don't see it happening, our outside players are limited enough as it is.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Remove this Banner Ad