Preview Round 8, 2021: Hawthorn v West Coast, Sunday 9th May @ 1:10pm

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Rocket72

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Its a bit of reoccurring theme here, but the idea that “I don’t know what the selection criteria is for young players” is equal to “the match committee don’t know what they are doing with young players” is one of the strangest things that pops up on Bigfooty.

The coaches and staff literally live and breathe the HFC day in, day out. They are not just making selections based on a feeling.
That doesn't characterise all the comments here. I can see a conversation about how hard we go on a rebuild and how much on field failure we accept for long term gain.
 

Accipiter

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I am actually starting to believe we have no clear strategy/plan for youth team selection, their is zero point in playing a player for 1 game in the AFL after coming in through VFL from a different position.

Would love someone’s idea on what it teaches because I can’t find many positives.

it is not about playing the youth, but it needs to be a focus with the position we are in and it’s waining week on week. I firmly believe too much VFL stifles development, and all you end up with is VFL depth
Loved this:- "too much VFL stifles development". I often wonder how good cricketer's like Brad Hodge would have been if not shunned by selectors and left to wallow in the Sheffield shield. I can live with young players being brought in for short stints as part of their development as long as they understand the mechanics of it. What this does is sets the bar at the required level, highlights were improvement is required, and keeps the players interested ... In this development year I actually like the thought of bring Reeves in this week on our own deck and in front of our own crowd so that he can see where the bar sits. Likewise, taking a player out of his comfort zone will also tell us a lot about him.
 

Milkshaker

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Its a bit of reoccurring theme here, but the idea that “I don’t know what the selection criteria is for young players” is equal to “the match committee don’t know what they are doing with young players” is one of the strangest things that pops up on Bigfooty.

The coaches and staff literally live and breathe the HFC day in, day out. They are not just making selections based on a feeling.
Way off the mark. Its' a discussion about team balance, teaching the kids and what that might look like. None of the discussion was critical of the club or match selections? Not sure what you were looking at.
 

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Rocket72

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Loved this:- "too much VFL stifles development". I often wonder how good cricketer's like Brad Hodge would have been if not shunned by selectors and left to wallow in the Sheffield shield.
I've been thinking about this a bit lately. My son played in an age group above his own and I loved how he found a way to be valuable to the team despite being much younger and smaller than others. Great for his character development. However, I also noticed that he became defensive first and reluctant to attack when maybe he could. A trait I hope is short-term. Can you play too long in either a level above or below where you are at?
 

Strapping Young Lad

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Way off the mark. Its' a discussion about team balance, teaching the kids and what that might look like. None of the discussion was critical of the club or match selections? Not sure what you were looking at.
Right, so this post below wasn’t actually made?
I am actually starting to believe we have no clear strategy/plan for youth team selection, their is zero point in playing a player for 1 game in the AFL after coming in through VFL from a different position.
 

On Topic

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I've been thinking about this a bit lately. My son played in an age group above his own and I loved how he found a way to be valuable to the team despite being much younger and smaller than others. Great for his character development. However, I also noticed that he became defensive first and reluctant to attack when maybe he could. A trait I hope is short-term. Can you play too long in either a level above or below where you are at?
I was in a similar situation about 10 years ago. It’s a confidence thing. Guarantee if he played with people his own size he would have a far more balanced game. There’s no harm in staying in the level above or below if he is finding a way to contribute. It would only be concerning if he is considerably under performing. That would be terrible for confidence. Same applies for players being given the opportunity to play AFL. Sometimes it’s ok if they get to develop in the seniors but sometimes it’s better to be at the VFL level.
 

Accipiter

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I've been thinking about this a bit lately. My son played in an age group above his own and I loved how he found a way to be valuable to the team despite being much younger and smaller than others. Great for his character development. However, I also noticed that he became defensive first and reluctant to attack when maybe he could. A trait I hope is short-term. Can you play too long in either a level above or below where you are at?
My first thoughts after reading this is that you are talking age groups so once he develops more physically the confidence will be there to take it on more - 'good on him for leaping out of his comfort zone'. This is where I feel we are with Brockman who is a special talent and, in my eyes, will need to learn his craft in the VFL with periodic stints in the seniors. I don't want to see him play this weekend as the eagles will just badger the young fella about belonging in WA and so on, not much to be gained by this at a young age. Fascinating calls to be made at selection tonight. The more I think about it the more I want to see BB playing across the backline and Reeves in the ruck getting a chop out from TOB. If TOB is injured then Cegs, if fit, will get the gig because it will mean rucking most of the game.
 

Bugs1977

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Yep.

BB to my eye is on the verge of breaking down, such has been his workload.

It would be brave to throw the kid in against Nic Nat but I am having nightmares thinking about the things he will do tomorrow to BB, if we don’t give him a chop out.

Sure they could go with Lewis but FFS the kid would have to show a bit of effort instead of his pea hearted efforts of last week.
I would love to see Ned given a debut but you’d think it would have to be at the expense of Jeka or Lewis or else we become too top heavy. This way BB starts at CHB and rotates with Ned in the ruck. Nic Nat would likely dominate him but the learning curve for where he needs to get to would be invaluable. Still I can’t see a debut happening at least until the last couple of games or game of the season.
 

Yardie

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I think what is doing all our heads in (maybe not all) is the Will Day injury. He was really consistently good. So you'd leave a game pumped in what you saw from him and it let the others be a bit up and down.
 

threesixpio

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In 2005 we had already had drafted the core of our side franklin rough etc and even then franklin came in much earlier than rough. If you have players that are ready to be played we play them. Some of the players on the list currently may not make it. Most of our young talent is injured
Yep. Day was ready. This was rare for players
 

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Bugs1977

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We have been in this place before. I recall thinking we have nothing coming through some time ago. Next thing Breust and Suckling were playing like they belonged, virtually straight up. The seniors are not getting it done and the kids will not either. Supporters need to view this as a developmental year imo whether that be kids playing seniors or at BH. Buckle in Hawks fans.
That place you mentioned where you feel there was no hope is what I like to think back to when also remembering how good we were for so long. Doing so (remembering the tough times) allows you to know that things can / will turn if things are done the right way. A lot of luck + patience is needed so yeah just buckle up and enjoy the highs as much as the lows.
 

On Topic

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I think what is doing all our heads in (maybe not all) is the Will Day injury. He was really consistently good. So you'd leave a game pumped in what you saw from him and it let the others be a bit up and down.
Day has been a huge loss. I really hope when he returns we can get him up on the wing or push Scrimshaw elsewhere.

If I read Day in, Scrimshaw out. I just might cry a little. Both should be best 22.
 

Fulgent

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I am actually starting to believe we have no clear strategy/plan for youth team selection, their is zero point in playing a player for 1 game in the AFL after coming in through VFL from a different position.

Would love someone’s idea on what it teaches because I can’t find many positives.

it is not about playing the youth, but it needs to be a focus with the position we are in and it’s waining week on week. I firmly believe too much VFL stifles development, and all you end up with is VFL depth
I know it was a different era, but I'm pretty sure Tuck played around 100 games for the 2nds and Dipper played around 50. I'm not suggesting any of our players currently playing for Box Hill is comparable but I don't think you can make a blanket statement that player development stalls if they aren't playing senior footy.
 

Mercy Seat

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I have come to the conclusion Clarkson is sentimental these days. He has an emotional attachment to Gunston, Bruest, Shiels, Howe, Obrien, Nash and this hinders his ability to drop or cut said players. If Clarkson wants to stay on as coach he needs to make these tough calls when required for our future or i can see Kennett making a tough call on Clarkos career.

One thing that made Clarkson an excellent coach was his ability to make the hard the calls, end careers and set high standards. Its time again Clarko for you to make the hard calls.
3 of those 5 have been dropped this year.
 

Mercy Seat

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Its a bit of reoccurring theme here, but the idea that “I don’t know what the selection criteria is for young players” is equal to “the match committee don’t know what they are doing with young players” is one of the strangest things that pops up on Bigfooty.

The coaches and staff literally live and breathe the HFC day in, day out. They are not just making selections based on a feeling.
We have literally set the blueprint that most of the leagues best teams now follow in terms of youth development. This is a combination of tutelage at VFL level and AFL games when the right KPIs are hit and the right balance of senior players can carry much of the heavy workload.

It’s this blueprint that has seen us squeeze more talent out of late picks and rookies than basically anyone.

People need to understand that we don’t have the kids we had in 05. The ones that are even close to that are injured. If your fave untested kid is not getting a game, it’s a far more nuanced reason than “Clarko is too sentimental”.

Throwing out a plan and a system that has been a part of the club for 15 years of which every kid of the list knows and is mentored on throughout the year just for the sake of it is nuts.
 

eldorado

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I know it was a different era, but I'm pretty sure Tuck played around 100 games for the 2nds and Dipper played around 50. I'm not suggesting any of our players currently playing for Box Hill is comparable but I don't think you can make a blanket statement that player development stalls if they aren't playing senior footy.
One could easily suggest that a few weeks playing in the firsts, getting limited delivery and touches, would be just as likely to stall Jeka's progress, when he could continue improving at Box Hill, getting a lot more involvement and goals.

I would go so far as saying development at Box Hill is every bit as important as development in the ones.
 
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LMGjr

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I hope we bring Cegs, Howe, Nash, Booksby, and Hartley in, just for melts. But maybe there's is another reason as well.

Is there any chance that the players at Box Hill are actually better off learning each others game at this stage to create team chemistry going forward, with new voices in Andy and Sammy ? You know, Finn learning Reeves game and Brockman learning Finns game - so on and so forth ?

And that the Cus, Howes, Nashs etc are actually on the chopping block at years end, so having them at Box Hill doesn't help create team chemistry going forward.

Maybe we are looking at whose getting chopped and who is staying - IE: Finn stays next year, maybe Cus doesn't? So lets get Finn around the team mates he'll be with for the next decade - A different view point people instead of just sooking.
 
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