Preview Round 8, 2021: Hawthorn v West Coast, Sunday 9th May @ 1:10pm

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Simon Crawshay

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I'm noticing lately that it seems football selection is becoming very much about feelings, don't want to play so and so now because it will hurt his confidence etc. Whatever happened to playing someone on merit or because you need to find out if they have what it takes to go to the next level?

Sooner or later he needs to come in and we need to find out if he can take it to the next level because as others have noted many times before McEvoy is on his last legs and Ceglar is not the answer, we need a better option going forward.
Generally I gree with what you have stated but I think that playing ruck is a special case.

I used to play ruck (back in my glory days of 2nds Country footy) and there is no worse feeling than being dominated by a bigger, more experienced ruck.

Everyone in the stands can see it happening and your confidence takes an absolute belting because you don't have anywhere to hide.

Given that I would prefer to debut Reeves against a mid tier ruck rather than Nic Nat (who would be an intimidating prospect even for seasoned ruckmen in the AFL).
 

Strapping Young Lad

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Does the media heat come this week?
We’ve won the games we would have jotted down as wins over the summer. Maybe Freo also, if we were bullish.

Belted on the weekend, but overall we’re about where we all thought we might be.

The quarters where we don’t turn up though is what the real issue is.
 

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Howe Amazing

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Kelly's 42 was the highest umber of disposals ever without a mark.
Does Finn go to a Gaff or Kelly? He needs to play with Jaeger and Chad as well which will no doubt help him. We need him to become a player, if he gets 5-6 games in a row I think we will know a fair bit more about him
 

Larry Barnsworth

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Where do we reckon Jimmy Cousins is versus his ceiling? And what would be his ceiling? Peak Shiels? Higher? Lower? Current Shiels?

I've been guilty in the past of considering him in the same cohort as Dan Howe - but he is 3 years younger so he probably still has growth.

Oh well.

One thing I saw too much of on Saturday was a player getting the ball, looking downfield as a first option, going "nope", doing some handpasses, trying to create something, pressure pushes us backwards and we end up doing a no look over the shoulder kick downfield anyway. So we end up taking a shittier version of the option that wasn't good enough to take in the first place. I'd like to see a little less of that. I get it, and I get what they're trying and why they're trying but I don't think it worked once.

Finn did work his way into the game, so I'd be OK if he stayed. But JOM and Wingard are two players who can actually impact the trajectory of a match. We've got precious few of those. So they have to come back in if available. But who misses is weird - you almost feel like those that will are unlucky unless a changing of the guard is triggered. Which is strange, because our midfield keeps getting dominated. Feels a little clogged TBH.

BB is a quandry. He's skipper, so absolutely worst case he gets managed a couple of games, But that's it. He needs help, but who? Ceglar ain't the answer no more, and if we bring in a second ruck, one of the big forwards has to go. But the resting / change ruckman has to give us something.

Too many ordinary kickers of the ball. Not something we're going to be able to do too much about this year though.

I think we've got to be getting more players through the midfield. Anyone who is good enough needs to do the odd rotation - Breust, Impey, Scrim, Hardwick. I think I even saw Gunston take a center bounce. Not opposed to any of that. We're too samey, and too often beaten.

I dunno
 

burton5

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Round 5: We can't debut Reeves against Gawn
Round 6: We can't debut Reeves against O'Brien
Round 7: We can't debut Reeves against Marshall/Ryder
Round 8: We can't debut Reeves against Naitanui

Round 9: We won't be able to debut Reeves against Goldstein



Who can we debut him against? If we're worried about size (I mean, the bloke is light yes but he's 211cms), he'll be up against it forever.
As others has been said about young players e.g. Will Day, if the kids are good enough they'll play. However, the centrality of the ruck position as a designed 1v1 contest makes it difficult where Reeves is still developing physically and there are absolute monsters running around which are rarely seen in the reserves.

I'd say if Reeves does happen to debut this year, it'll either be against Carlton (Round 10 v Pittonet), Gold Coast (Round 11 v Smith?) or perhaps against Sydney (Round 13 v Hickey).
 

WWSD

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Round 5: We can't debut Reeves against Gawn
Round 6: We can't debut Reeves against O'Brien
Round 7: We can't debut Reeves against Marshall/Ryder
Round 8: We can't debut Reeves against Naitanui

Round 9: We won't be able to debut Reeves against Goldstein



Who can we debut him against? If we're worried about size (I mean, the bloke is light yes but he's 211cms), he'll be up against it forever.
My money would be on Reeves making his debut against Gold Coast Round 11 in Darwin.
 

MrPremiership

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As others has been said about young players e.g. Will Day, if the kids are good enough they'll play. However, the centrality of the ruck position as a designed 1v1 contest makes it difficult where Reeves is still developing physically and there are absolute monsters running around which are rarely seen in the reserves.

I'd say if Reeves does happen to debut this year, it'll either be against Carlton (Round 10 v Pittonet), Gold Coast (Round 11 v Smith?) or perhaps against Sydney (Round 13 v Hickey).
He isn't playing on skinny kids in the VFL though. It's not like he's getting an easy ride below.

I mean, he was also rucking against Majak Daw who is a handy physical specimen
 

rei154

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Where do we reckon Jimmy Cousins is versus his ceiling? And what would be his ceiling? Peak Shiels? Higher? Lower? Current Shiels?

I've been guilty in the past of considering him in the same cohort as Dan Howe - but he is 3 years younger so he probably still has growth.

Oh well.

One thing I saw too much of on Saturday was a player getting the ball, looking downfield as a first option, going "nope", doing some handpasses, trying to create something, pressure pushes us backwards and we end up doing a no look over the shoulder kick downfield anyway. So we end up taking a shittier version of the option that wasn't good enough to take in the first place. I'd like to see a little less of that. I get it, and I get what they're trying and why they're trying but I don't think it worked once.

Finn did work his way into the game, so I'd be OK if he stayed. But JOM and Wingard are two players who can actually impact the trajectory of a match. We've got precious few of those. So they have to come back in if available. But who misses is weird - you almost feel like those that will are unlucky unless a changing of the guard is triggered. Which is strange, because our midfield keeps getting dominated. Feels a little clogged TBH.

BB is a quandry. He's skipper, so absolutely worst case he gets managed a couple of games, But that's it. He needs help, but who? Ceglar ain't the answer no more, and if we bring in a second ruck, one of the big forwards has to go. But the resting / change ruckman has to give us something.

Too many ordinary kickers of the ball. Not something we're going to be able to do too much about this year though.

I think we've got to be getting more players through the midfield. Anyone who is good enough needs to do the odd rotation - Breust, Impey, Scrim, Hardwick. I think I even saw Gunston take a center bounce. Not opposed to any of that. We're too samey, and too often beaten.

I dunno
Tbh I can't imagine Cuz is too far off his ceiling- but I hope I'm wrong. I see him going down the Dan Howe path, but probably gets an extension at the end of the year just because of where our midfield stocks are at.
 

Simon Crawshay

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He isn't playing on skinny kids in the VFL though. It's not like he's getting an easy ride below.

I mean, he was also rucking against Majak Daw who is a handy physical specimen
True but I don't think Majak has ever shown himself to be a physical beast in ruck contests the way Nic Nat is.

Honestly Nic Nat will most probably dominate the ruck contests regardless of whether we play Big Boy or Reeves.

I guess if the coaching panel make it clear to Reeves that he should treat it as a learning experience and not put too much pressure on him it might be okay?

I still feel though it is like an ATP rookie going up against Federer / Nadal in his first sanctioned match and potentially not winning a single game.
 

Blackhawk42

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Tbh I can't imagine Cuz is too far off his ceiling- but I hope I'm wrong. I see him going down the Dan Howe path, but probably gets an extension at the end of the year just because of where our midfield stocks are at.
Career high disposals on the weekend for Cuz. The optimist in me says that's proof he is still getting better at AFL level.
 

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LMGjr

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I posted along the same lines above.

But if you're bringing in BOTH Chad and O'Meara, you need to drop another player. Does Cousins keep his spot after having 27 disp and his best game of the year? Doubt it. Can't think of any other mids, prob has to be a winger or HHF.
Ollie
 

Bardo State

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Career high disposals on the weekend for Cuz. The optimist in me says that's proof he is still getting better at AFL level.
On first watch I thought his ball use was poor, but watching his game back, that's probably a bit harsh looking back at his footage. He hit a lot of 50/50 contests early and had a tendency to belt it forward with a snap from the back of a stoppage. It wasn't pretty, but usually under pressure and without clear better options.

It's a bit unfortunate that his ball use was at its worst when his decision making was at its best. when he saw good options inside 50, he miss-kicked a couple times. If he hit those, it would have looked like quite a good game from him, and he usually hit those kicks at the end of last year. Enough to stay in the team I think.
 

TylerDurden

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True but I don't think Majak has ever shown himself to be a physical beast in ruck contests the way Nic Nat is.

Honestly Nic Nat will most probably dominate the ruck contests regardless of whether we play Big Boy or Reeves.

I guess if the coaching panel make it clear to Reeves that he should treat it as a learning experience and not put too much pressure on him it might be okay?

I still feel though it is like an ATP rookie going up against Federer / Nadal in his first sanctioned match and potentially not winning a single game.
Agree. BB will get smashed anyway.
 

CliffMcTainshaw

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Unfortunately, the cupboard is bare at Box Hill. The best players on Sunday were Box hill players. Brooksby and Howe were OK. Brockman stood out a couple of times but went missing too often and for too long. Reeves was OK with hitouts but did very little around the ground and Downie was barely sighted.
I might add it was very strange watching a game when the opposition wears what looks a lot like a Hawks jumper.
 
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Billyc

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Unfortunately, the cupboard is bare at Box Hill. The best players on Sunday were Box hill players. Brooksby and Howe were OK. Brockman stood out a couple of times but went missing too often and for too long. Reeves was OK with hitouts but did very little around the ground and Downie was barely sighted.
You are right about Box Hill and the cupboard but Brockman should still come in for Hanrahan in my view. He hits the scoreboard, has more impact with and without the ball and has the higher upside. I don’t think Hanrahan is going to make it. He just doesn’t get involved often enough.
 

VandoHawk

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Unfortunately, the cupboard is bare at Box Hill. The best players on Sunday were Box hill players. Brooksby and Howe were OK. Brockman stood out a couple of times but went missing too often and for too long. Reeves was OK with hitouts but did very little around the ground and Downie was barely sighted.
Disagree on Brockman but agree on the others.
 

HODGEYROAD

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I think we'll be more competitive this week for a few reasons.

Jaeger and Chad I don't think will be managed this week.

The Eagles are flakey away from home.

Eagles have a substatial injury list.

All in all I think we'll have and puff and try to atone for last weeks shambolic display, still think we'll fall 3-4 goals short as they eagles are more talented and will be more efficient when they need to be. We'll also struggle to contain the 3 big blokes that have with our options of Hartigan etc.
 

TylerDurden

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So they're missing McGovern, Barrass and Hurn from their starting back 6. Oscar Allen has been shifted back.
Is there any way we can take advantage of this, or it's simply not gonna matter?
 

kirbatron

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So they're missing McGovern, Barrass and Hurn from their starting back 6. Oscar Allen has been shifted back.
Is there any way we can take advantage of this, or it's simply not gonna matter?
we're not good enough to take advantage or exploit anything right now.. however the boys can dish up a lot better than Saturday so im expecting us to be competitive
 
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