Autopsy Round 8, 2022: Melbourne v St.Kilda

[tomjoad]

Fantastic, how long are you. there for?

Only a week...we've taken my mum there for her 70th since she made the effort to get herself to Ireland to visit. It's nowhere near enough time though. Minimum 10 days is needed...14 in a camper van would be best (no way the matriarch would go for that though) None of us want to leave.

 

[AirWinmar]

Can someone explain why we need Hill playing on from the kick in to try and chisel a 20m kick to 40m directly in front of the opposition goals? The risk vs reward doesn't stack up. Surely there are better ways to get him into the play.

There was some extremely bizaar decision making during that game, we would be out in the clear and for some strange reason we almost deliberately moved it into pressure situations before we could get the ball inside.

I only loosely watched most of the game, but it looked like we panicked a lot with ball in hand. Maybe playing the reigning premiers got in a few players heads

 

[Myles David]

Thanks Brother P35. I hope you are well. I have been following football since 1971 and yesterday I saw some thing from the Saints that I have only glimpsed in the dreaded 1988 GF against Hawthorn and no where else.

It occurred in the Q3 when St Kilda was surging. Somehow or other the Saints got all their players - or most of them - into the central corridor and they alll surged forward like a mighty torrent. It took on a life of its own. I could not believe my eyes. I was staggered by it. It was majestic. There was not a single Dees player in that corridor for the life of the surge or perhaps they were nullified by the glory of it all. I cannot remember if it eventuated in a goal or not. - it deserves commemoration.

Am I imagining things? Did anyone else see it? It was ten seconds or so of utter perfection and a will-to-power.

On a lesser note, the Saints demonstrated, albeit fitfully, that the one way to beat the Dees is speed-of-movement. I read that our common enemy, the Handbaggers, reverted back to the Crab on the weekend against GWS . . . .

Best wishes to you all. One genuine St Kilda supporter is worth 10,000 equivalents from the Eagles.

B

This man the goat fr

 

[Ads734]

Twas both.

Last quarter Port had the first play front and back of the contest in the wet (about 10m off it) and we didnt man that up. Hence every time the ball squeaked out of the clearance they had first dibs.

Thats a coaching stuff up first and a player/leadership stuff up second.

It wasn’t. The port game was literally as simple as us not kicking straight.

 

[Hubnester]

Would love a gif of this just btw

Hubnester get on it

Hard to get a good look at it really, unless anyone knows of a timestamp of a close up replay?

 

[aussierulesrules]

- Melbourne's defensive set-up was impenetrable in the first half. We couldn't get any of our overlap run started which lead to way too many short kicks.

Melbourne’s defensive setup was impenetrable in the first 45 minutes because we didn’t even try to get any overlap run going. Not the other way around.

We played into their hands by going with that kicking game that Ratts said we too to the “extreme” and it gave them all the time in the world to set up behind the ball and force us into a long kick down the line. Which blew up in our face until we ditched it and went back to our more usual attacking run-and-carry/mark-and-play-on brand.

Was it Wilkie who played on Fritsch? Whoever is was did an outstanding job.

Pretty sure it was Webster. He was the logical matchup going in, with Howard, Battle and Wilkie taking Brown, McDonald and Gawn/Jackson and about the only time I saw Fritsch all day it was Jimmy who was on him.

 

[Myles David]

The Ben Brown recruitment by Melbourne nearly guarantees them a premiership.

This bloke annihilates us every time he plays against us.

I have no idea why Norf let him go, he always seemed like a future superstar even when he was playing in the VFL for Werribee.

They just didn't like his goofy run up on set shots. Can you blame em?

 

[Kain26Toad]

Melbourne’s defensive setup was impenetrable in the first 45 minutes because we didn’t even try to get any overlap run going. Not the other way around.

We played into their hands by going with that kicking game that Ratts said we too to the “extreme” and it gave them all the time in the world to set up behind the ball and force us into a long kick down the line. Which blew up in our face until we ditched it and went back to our more usual attacking run-and-carry/mark-and-play-on brand.


Pretty sure it was Webster. He was the logical matchup going in, with Howard, Battle and Wilkie taking Brown, McDonald and Gawn/Jackson and about the only time I saw Fritsch all day it was Jimmy who was on him.

Webster also spent a lot of minutes on Pickett.

 

[Mowman]

Webster also spent a lot of minutes on Pickett.

I was behind the goals L2 city end and he spent a lot of time on pickett

 

[Kain26Toad]

The Ben Brown recruitment by Melbourne nearly guarantees them a premiership.

This bloke annihilates us every time he plays against us.

I have no idea why Norf let him go, he always seemed like a future superstar even when he was playing in the VFL for Werribee.

He could have torn that game apart, when almost but thankfully not clunking marks close to goal that he had his hand on.

 

[Saintbloke]

I think I posted leading up to the game that we would have to beat a better midfield to win, and surprise- we didn't. Crouch did a reasonable job, but the rest just need to work a whole lot harder if we want to go up a rung- our captain needs to get his skates on as he looks a bit off to me so far this season- just seems to be in that "just doing enough and no more" zone.

 

[phantom13]

It wasn’t. The port game was literally as simple as us not kicking straight.

So let me put it a different way.

Even with our bad kicking we could have won the game had port not had forward half possesion for roughly 70% of the last quarter, which came about because they had a loose around the contest. Now what could we (ratts) possibly have done to avoid that?

 

[plugger66]

I think I posted leading up to the game that we would have to beat a better midfield to win, and surprise- we didn't. Crouch did a reasonable job, but the rest just need to work a whole lot harder if we want to go up a rung- our captain needs to get his skates on as he looks a bit off to me so far this season- just seems to be in that "just doing enough and no more" zone.

Harsh on Steele. Puts his body into every single game and every single attack on the ball. We just don’t have a great midfield and if gresh is down which he was we are pretty same same.

 

[PoppedCorn]

This annoyed me. That should have ignited us. I had to doubt myself whether it really was his first goal

Same
Ive jumped near on 20 pages to reply to this but yeah this pissed me off.

I was pretty sure it was his first as i seriously couldnt remember him kicking one and then all of sudden theres a half hearted effort by a few to get to him

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Same
Ive jumped near on 20 pages to reply to this but yeah this pissed me off.

I was pretty sure it was his first as i seriously couldnt remember him kicking one and then all of sudden theres a half hearted effort by a few to get to him

Reminded me of when Higgins kicked that goal of the year contender and no one even celebrated it

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yep...and then he missed either Membrey or maybe Butler and it went down the other end a goal was scored coz we were on the burst...he wasn't the only one.
Gresh did it to in the third.
He hit another kick in the third that was sublime...weighted over the top eastern wing. The kid has bucket loads of talent.

I have a few saints in my AFL fantasy team. NWM is on the bench normally, but i had to play him on the weekend.

Higgins 39. Well down on Expectations.
Gresham 42. Well down on Expectations ( Been good value though ).
NWM, 48. Down a bit, but compare to our seasoned campaigners.
Battle 90.
Steele 98 I don't think he's getting a Brownlow this year , but he's still playing at a pretty high level.

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

So anything in who/whatever split Steele’s mouth open

 

[Jesuswasacarpenter]

I have a few saints in my AFL fantasy team. NWM is on the bench normally, but i had to play him on the weekend.

Higgins 39. Well down on Expectations.
Gresham 42. Well down on Expectations ( Been good value though ).
NWM, 48. Down a bit, but compare to our seasoned campaigners.
Battle 90.
Steele 98 I don't think he's getting a Brownlow this year , but he's still playing at a pretty high level.

I could see why Ratten tried to turn Battle into a winger yesterday.
He is a weapon...took the game on, and delivered to Roma in the square ...goal.
Battle as Third tall intercepting defender.
We are a top 4 contender.
I reckon he is one the group that the Saints can build a team around to have a fair crack at the holy grail.
M. Lloyd was not wrong when he called him a draft steal.

 

[Atomboy]

Hard to get a good look at it really, unless anyone knows of a timestamp of a close up replay?

Forgetting the two baulks, that is just such an amazing kick.

The vision to even think Wood would be in that spot is incredible.

Unless it was a fluke (which I like to think it wasn’t)

 

[Plugger35]

I could see why Ratten tried to turn Battle into a winger yesterday.
He is a weapon...took the game on, and delivered to Roma in the square ...goal.
Battle as Third tall intercepting defender.
We are a top 4 contender.
I reckon he is one the group that the Saints can build a team around to have a fair crack at the holy grail.
M. Lloyd was not wrong when he called him a draft steal.

His run down the wing and pass to Marshall for our first goal was one of our few highlights, he should push forward more often and become an attacking weapon for us, something Sam Fisher used to do so well.

 

[saint66au]

Forgetting the two baulks, that is just such an amazing kick.

The vision to even think Wood would be in that spot is incredible.

Unless it was a fluke (which I like to think it wasn’t)

and then Wood completely butchered the handball to Zac lol

 

[stfan]

Thought NWM really struggled on the weekend to be honest.

He's clearly got some talent and a very exciting prospect but he got a really good lesson from the Melbourne runners on how far he's got to go.

Wasn't on his Pat Malone though

Yes while NWM has been exciting, that was not a good game for him. 9 disposals on the wing is not at all good. While he had some sublime kicks, several times he made some very ordinary kicks into our forward line.

We have now "managed" all of our youngest players including Heath.. I think NWM may be due for a rest.

Yes he has a great future with us and ultimately will be very good for us. However the Cats game is a very important game for us. A real "8 pointer" and after 2 losses we do not want to have three in a row. We need to pick our best possible 22 for this game.


Team play is vital, and so I doubt we will make many changes.

Billings will come in. Butler will probably be an out (So maybe Long forward).

Jones started poorly, but got better as the game went on. Cats are a physical team, and so Jones's vigour will be valued.

Cameron and Tomahawk have been in great form, and not letting them dominate will be a key part of us winning. So I would not be surprised to see another tallish back brought back in. Highmore, Lienert or maybe even Joyce. All three have been playing well.

Someone has to go, and I think it may be NWM.

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

Had some time to reflect on the game and I am still actually quite optimistic. Think this was an oppotunity for us to try a few things against the best, see what works and what doesnt. Seeing the teams ability to play multiple gamestyles, and more importantly to switch styles within a game, is encouraging. We made mistakes and went to 'extremes' with it, but that is a good learning experience.

Biggest positive for me was that I thought our defence was excellent after about the 10 minute mark of the second quarter (when we changed gears in our gamestyle). JWebb and Dougs got their pants pulled down a few times early 1v1, but both seemed to adjust and went on to be two of our best. Went from the Dees walking it through us in the D50, to us consistantly winning 1v1 contests. Again encouraging, and if our back 6/7 consistantly play like they did from the second quarter on, we will be very very hard to score against.

Also not tagging Langdon has been discussed. However, I think there is a big difference between it being rd 1-10, and it being a final. This gave us the opportunity for NWM and DMac to see Langdon and Brayshaw up close and learn (NWM especially). If that is September then I am sure DMac (or someone) hard tags Langdon, and Brayshaw gets a Billings, Clark, Hanners type he needs to worry about offensively. But happy for the development of NAS to let him spend the day going head to head (splitting the time with Wood and DMac). That is more about NAS in September 2023, then winning yesterday

The midfield is the obvious gap. On the inside Crouch held his own, but Steele was poor (by Steele standars). Pertecca and Olver just beat them up with high quality clearences. Personally, happy to back in Steele and Crouch (and an offensive player such as Gresh / Jones) to go against Oliver and Petrecca (and a Viney type) and for Marshall / Ryder to take on Gawn / Jackson. We got beaten their yesterday, but I dont think they are that far away. As the commentators said repeatedly, Melbourne went up a level and played 'September' quality football. And yes we got blown off the park for 40 minutes. It was impressive, but nothing about that is a gap I dont think we can close. And if this gives the boys a glimpse of where they need to get to, and inspires them to work harder, then this could be something of a positive day in the medium term.

My final reason to be optimistic is also about where we can improve. Games like yesterday show up the 'panic merchants' who cant execute basic skills under pressure. On the flip side it elevetes those who can slow the game down under pressure and make good decisions (for me Oliver is the clear no1 example in the AFL). IMO, our best players at slowing the game down and opening up the field are Billings, Clark, Hill and NAS. 2 didnt play yesterday, and 1 was in about his eighth game (and looks built for executing under pressure. Add Clark / Billings and a version of NAS with 25 more games (and hopefully Coff down the track), and our ball movement gets alot smoother under 'September like' pressure. That, along with 10-30 more games of a settled back 6/7, and I see no reason we cant compete for 4 quarters at that level.

Hit outs to advantage were 14-11 in St Kilda's favour. I thought some of Ryder's, as usual, were to "very advantage" (the aforementioned clean clearance from frontside of contest).

I think there will be plenty of stuff learned from yesterday. The slow pace of ball movement was a mistake. Wood's two misses and Membrey's touched shot at the end of the first were avoidable. More work needs to go into Oliver IMO and probably Langdon, who has been stopped with a hardish tag (this is surely something McKenzie is capable of). The game reminded me a little of the 2008 Qualifying Final.

Could not agree more. Actually texted someone at the game and said it reminded me of the 08 prelim where we got pumped by Hawthorn. Trending the right direction, but far from the finished product. After watching Port brain the Dogs, last week doesnt look so bad either

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

I thought some of Ryder's, as usual, were to "very advantage" (the aforementioned clean clearance from frontside of contest).

What can you do if the mids you tap it to aren’t having a good game though. Tap it to a midfielder but he turns it over or gets tackled

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yes while NWM has been exciting, that was not a good game for him. 9 disposals on the wing is not at all good. While he had some sublime kicks, several times he made some very ordinary kicks into our forward line.

We have now "managed" all of our youngest players including Heath.. I think NWM may be due for a rest.

Yes he has a great future with us and ultimately will be very good for us. However the Cats game is a very important game for us. A real "8 pointer" and after 2 losses we do not want to have three in a row. We need to pick our best possible 22 for this game.


Team play is vital, and so I doubt we will make many changes.

Billings will come in. Butler will probably be an out (So maybe Long forward).

Jones started poorly, but got better as the game went on. Cats are a physical team, and so Jones's vigour will be valued.

Cameron and Tomahawk have been in great form, and not letting them dominate will be a key part of us winning. So I would not be surprised to see another tallish back brought back in. Highmore, Lienert or maybe even Joyce. All three have been playing well.

Someone has to go, and I think it may be NWM.

Whatever, Gresham had 15 iffy disposals in the midfield and a whole clearance.
Surely that limits your wingers.
Yeah Billings would probably get more but would he use it better?