Autopsy Round 8, 2022: Melbourne v St.Kilda

[BrutThough]

Whatever, Gresham had 15 iffy disposals in the midfield and a whole clearance.
Surely that limits your wingers.
Yeah Billings would probably get more but would he use it better?

Probably. That kick NWM did on the boundary was fantastic but he also missed a lot of targets for the rest of the day.

 

[bird_man]

Whatever, Gresham had 15 iffy disposals in the midfield and a whole clearance.
Surely that limits your wingers.
Yeah Billings would probably get more but would he use it better?

Played about half a game in the midfield and the rest deep forward

I think Billings would offer more than NWM right now. Nothing wrong with that, he's an 18 year old kid finding his feet

 

[Ricmel]

Whatever, Gresham had 15 iffy disposals in the midfield and a whole clearance.
Surely that limits your wingers.
Yeah Billings would probably get more but would he use it better?

I think it is a lot to ask of NWM to play week after week, especially after 8 rounds. He is very light framed as it is and I think it is starting to take toll. A short spell in the VFL is not going to do him any harm. Billings would seem the obvious replacement - which pretty well guarantees a higher possession count, maybe not more impact?

 

[Diehard Saint]

Dissent is any variance from the held view by definition. If you disagree with the umpire and tell him, it is dissent. It's not an interpretation thing: the word has a clear definition.

So in the case of DMAc pointing out an obviously wrong call with the grounded ball he’s just got to suck it up? These guys are not robots, they’re competitive beasts.
I’m all for penalising verbal and physical abuse of umpires, but I think the fact they can’t appeal is a farce.
Just my opinion

 

[SaintsSeptember]

So in the case of DMAc pointing out an obviously wrong call with the grounded ball he’s just got to suck it up? These guys are not robots, they’re competitive beasts.
I’m all for penalising verbal and physical abuse of umpires, but I think the fact they can’t appeal is a farce.
Just my opinion

Probably , but appealing never worked anyway.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I think it is a lot to ask of NWM to play week after week, especially after 8 rounds. He is very light framed as it is and I think it is starting to take toll. A short spell in the VFL is not going to do him any harm. Billings would seem the obvious replacement - which pretty well guarantees a higher possession count, maybe not more impact?

Sure , though i'd think the conditioning guys would be onto it.
Not sure he's the weakest link to bring in Billings.

 

[moirae42]

Forgetting the two baulks, that is just such an amazing kick.

The vision to even think Wood would be in that spot is incredible.

Unless it was a fluke (which I like to think it wasn’t)

He's doing a couple of those every game now.
Not a fluke. Cant be a fluke when it's happening every week.

 

[The Punter]

So in the case of DMAc pointing out an obviously wrong call with the grounded ball he’s just got to suck it up? These guys are not robots, they’re competitive beasts.
I’m all for penalising verbal and physical abuse of umpires, but I think the fact they can’t appeal is a farce.
Just my opinion

I agree with you, but dissent has a clear definition that allows no wriggle room if applied according to that definition.

Look through some of the stuff umpires had to put up with in the 1980s and you'll drop your tea.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Probably , but appealing never worked anyway.

True!
I think it’s just away of expelling their emotions. Hard to bottle them when there’s a game on the line.


Sent from my iPad using BigFooty.com

 

[Minga]

I love how the media jump on and off so quickly. Lloyd "it really showed where they're at they're a long way off" just pure drivel in my opinion, the same guys pump tires and then let them down every Monday, the footy media are just the biggest bunch of Mondays experts. Ah thanks for telling us all the moves that would have won us the game!

If anyone was saying we were a huge threat it was the media themselves, and also this idea that "the game was over when they got up 9 goals to 1" well it wasn't we got ourselves back in the game and got it back to four goals if we'd gotten the next couple then it would have been game on!

Anyway that's my rant but basically these guys just love to stick the boots in each Monday. Don't worry if we beat Geelong they'll all jump back on.

I think Lloyd is my least favourite “expert”. The man says the most one dimensional takes in the most one dimensional way.

I’m sure he’s a champ off camera, but when on camera he’s seems so robotic and the takes are the epitome of reactionary, and obvious.

Did you know he coached the King boys in high school! It’s always a bigger claim to fame then his playing career these days, I’m sick of hearing it.

But hey, I only watch snippets of the footy show he’s on and the one with Purple by the AFL (because those shows look *ing awful and homogenous), so perhaps I’m missing something… but I doubt it.

 

[phantom13]

I agree with you, but dissent has a clear definition that allows no wriggle room if applied according to that definition.

Look through some of the stuff umpires had to put up with in the 1980s and you'll drop your tea.

Youre talking about the most extreme end though and thats kind of the issue.

There is now NO difference between what D-Mac did or Harris Andrews throwing his arms in the air as there is to what the umpires got in the 80s, its all the same penalty.

In addition to that its still inconsistent, as much as i would hate it if EVERY instance of dissent is penalised then so be it (theres gonna be 100 penalties a game) at least we know the line.

 

[The Punter]

Youre talking about the most extreme end though and thats kind of the issue.

There is now NO difference between what D-Mac did or Harris Andrews throwing his arms in the air as there is to what the umpires got in the 80s, its all the same penalty.

In addition to that its still inconsistent, as much as i would hate it if EVERY instance of dissent is penalised then so be it (theres gonna be 100 penalties a game) at least we know the line.

No, it's worse, because most of that stuff in the 1980s went unpenalised. There's nothing wrong with what McKenzie or Andrews did.

Again, umpires would gain more respect if they were set up to fail by the ever-increasingly complicated rules they are asked to adjudicate.

Some quick suggestions to make the game simpler to umpire:

• Unless a clear unfair advantage, call no ruck infringements
• Change the deliberate rule to "sole intent" or go the other way and pay "last touch"
• As long as each team has only one player contesting the ruck, no nomination
• Abolish deliberate rushed behind, change to "player who rushed the behind can't kick it in"

These four simple changes would improve umpiring quality pretty quickly IMO, without a "crackdown" in dissent.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I think Lloyd is my least favourite “expert”. The man says the most one dimensional takes in the most one dimensional way.

I’m sure he’s a champ off camera, but when on camera he’s seems so robotic and the takes are the epitome of reactionary, and obvious.

Did you know he coached the King boys in high school! It’s always a bigger claim to fame then his playing career these days, I’m sick of hearing it.

But hey, I only watch snippets of the footy show he’s on and the one with Purple by the AFL (because those shows look f*n awful and homogenous), so perhaps I’m missing something… but I doubt it.

I always thought Lloyd was incredibly talented at taking a grab and kicking a goal.

A strategist ? Not necessarily.
A coach or teacher. Not necessarily.

 

[phantom13]

No, it's worse, because most of that stuff in the 1980s went unpenalised. There's nothing wrong with what McKenzie or Andrews did.

Again, umpires would gain more respect if they were set up to fail by the ever-increasingly complicated rules they are asked to adjudicate.

Some quick suggestions to make the game simpler to umpire:

• Unless a clear unfair advantage, call no ruck infringements
• Change the deliberate rule to "sole intent" or go the other way and pay "last touch"
• As long as each team has only one player contesting the ruck, no nomination
• Abolish deliberate rushed behind, change to "player who rushed the behind can't kick it in"

These four simple changes would improve umpiring quality pretty quickly IMO, without a "crackdown" in dissent.

Oh, yeh i couldnt really gather which side of this argument you were on.

FWIW i agree (and with all the items youve noted) but would also add that the dissent rule could be done the same way.

 

[phantom13]

I think Lloyd is my least favourite “expert”. The man says the most one dimensional takes in the most one dimensional way.

I’m sure he’s a champ off camera, but when on camera he’s seems so robotic and the takes are the epitome of reactionary, and obvious.

Did you know he coached the King boys in high school! It’s always a bigger claim to fame then his playing career these days, I’m sick of hearing it.

But hey, I only watch snippets of the footy show he’s on and the one with Purple by the AFL (because those shows look f*n awful and homogenous), so perhaps I’m missing something… but I doubt it.

I watch the Sunday footy show occasionally and hes actually not bad. He does a little analysis thing thats usually pretty good (although i doubt any of the panel actually come up with those themselves). Plus hes pretty self deprecating which helps.

Buckley is the gold standard of late but given the Lumumba dossier he might be cancelled pretty soon.

 

[Minga]

I watch the Sunday footy show occasionally and hes actually not bad. He does a little analysis thing thats usually pretty good (although i doubt any of the panel actually come up with those themselves). Plus hes pretty self deprecating which helps.

Buckley is the gold standard of late but given the Lumumba dossier he might be cancelled pretty soon.

By all means I’m sure that’s true. I think the st Kilda takes probably just get filtered to me mixed in with a dash of clickbait.

I’m definitely criticising him in a very narrow way, but then again, that’s the beauty living my nuffy dreams on these forums.

Agree on Buckley, 100% gold standard. He’s generally objective, accounts for both sides, has a modern perspective with both players and coaches. Argues respectfully. Doesn’t get sucked into the media drivel (yet) although ‘best on ground’ or whatever that fox skit show is, is pretty unappealing.

But yes, Buckey’s time at Collingwood particularly towards the disastrous end and the ongoing discourse with Lumumba, will probably follow him for some time.

 

[George]

 

[phantom13]

I think the 50 was fair (as much as i hate that the person retaliating gets pinged) but frankly a fine is absurd.

The AFL tells us that suspensions and the MRP are based on outcome not intent (hence Ryder goes for two for standing still) yet Jones gets this when Oliver was uninjured.

MRP is cooked.

 

[MickG88]

I think the 50 was fair (as much as i hate that the person retaliating gets pinged) but frankly a fine is absurd.

The AFL tells us that suspensions and the MRP are based on outcome not intent (hence Ryder goes for two for standing still) yet Jones gets this when Oliver was uninjured.

MRP is cooked.

Not to forget that May elbowed Higgins in the face and got off scott free. Jones didn't make contact with Clayton "stager" Oliver's head but gets a fine. the AFL and MRO are trolling the footy fans.

 

[HunterClarksHeadband]

Re-watched. F*ck we owned that late 2nd quarter to 3rd quarter period - honestly makes you think if we kicked those 3 or that were missed, the pressure and belief would have been right up. Lost it in the first quarter.

 

[OxSaint]

Kings lack of defensive/2nd efforts were concerning. Seems to be becoming a trend. Thought we would have used him higher up the ground to drag may away from def 50 similar to Hawthorne.

Gresh needs to be forward more often. Those chaos balls to areas we can’t be turning it over are doing my head in. It seems as though he has no confidence in his ability to get separation anymore.

Butler going down is a concern. He hasn’t been great but the small forwards in the magoo’s aren’t much chop.

Wood has his moments, but what’s the point of a tall wingman if he is never used to create a contest on the wing or backed in as a mismatch? Seems to be Membrey or 1 or both the rucks coming right up the ground to do it.

 

[puppy_dog7]

Kings lack of defensive/2nd efforts were concerning. Seems to be becoming a trend. Thought we would have used him higher up the ground to drag may away from def 50 similar to Hawthorne.

Gresh needs to be forward more often. Those chaos balls to areas we can’t be turning it over are doing my head in. It seems as though he has no confidence in his ability to get separation anymore.

Butler going down is a concern. He hasn’t been great but the small forwards in the magoo’s aren’t much chop.

Wood has his moments, but what’s the point of a tall wingman if he is never used to create a contest on the wing or backed in as a mismatch? Seems to be Membrey or 1 or both the rucks coming right up the ground to do it.

agree with Gresh. He almost needs to be playing that Dusty role of Center bounce attendances and then strictly forward half footy. We have enough that can work hard defensively. We need him being more damaging forward of center.

Think Sharman definitely deserves to get a run now. He had a really good game on the weekend.

 

[KingJim]

I enjoyed watching Wang-Mil for the last 2 matches. He certainly does have some fancy footwork, am looking forward to watching his future games. I didn't know what he had to offer earlier in the year, but he is an entertaining little bloke with silky skills. Wears the number 7 with pride.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Just watching the replay to check out a few howlers by players that really struck me watching it live.

Kosi Picketts goal with 40 seconds to play in the first qtr. What were Dmac and Long thinking!!!

Left hand side of the ruck contest - DMac and Long defending who knows what - while on the right hand side of the ruck contest, Jimmy Webster

29

Jimmy Webster

Age

30

Ht

188cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.7

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.8

4star

M

3.7

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

288.1

4star

No current season stats available

D

9.2

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.8

4star

is being blocked by Langdon leaving his man (Pickett) with no defender within 10 metres of him.

No wonder he waltzed into goal to give them a 26/2 lead which was made worse by Membreys behind from 5 metres out about 30 seconds later.

 

[puppy_dog7]

Just watching the replay to check out a few howlers by players that really struck me watching it live.

Kosi Picketts goal with 40 seconds to play in the first qtr. What were Dmac and Long thinking!!!

Left hand side of the ruck contest - DMac and Long defending who knows what - while on the right hand side of the ruck contest, Jimmy Webster is being blocked by Langdon leaving his man (Pickett) with no defender within 10 metres of him.

No wonder he waltzed into goal to give them a 26/2 lead which was made worse by Membreys behind from 5 metres out about 30 seconds later.





View attachment 1397579

To me it looks as though Dmac is covering ANB and the dangerous space corridor side. Honestly don't know what long is doing, but Jimmy should be calling either Pato or Long over to help cover Langdon and Pickett.