Toast Round 8 = North Melbourne 76-94 Collingwood

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magpies42

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A win is a win, but hard to take anything from a game playing against a side that would get beaten by most VFL teams.

we are still poor on disposal and can’t sustain effort and convert. It’s pleasing we pushed back when challenged but still really poor.

Jordy kicked 6 goals I’ll be happy if he does the same thing next week.

Genuinely outstanding were Moore and Grundy. I like how Cameron is stepping up, I think it’s the end of Cox. Some good signs from ouryounger players. I think Keane will be great player for us. Murphy can’ttake a trick, but has so much to offer. I love it when he has ball in hand and he goes so hard. Maynard is making stupiddecisions. Poulter gets another game, MCcreery despite the stat sheets plays as well he applies genuine pressure, loved his hit on Stephenson.

stephenson had a good game, but I was genuinely disappointed that they didn’t get stuck into him. We just don’t have that killer instinct!

Thomas is contributing nicely also.
 

magpies42

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Good to get a W, but that wasn’t a “weight lifted off our shoulders result” it was built almost entirely on the back of massive games from Moore and JDG who will be nowhere near as effective against Buddy and Rampe next week. Between the fumbles, turnovers, slipping over (did that irritate anyone else as much as me??) and general dumb footy that was your quintessential bottom 4 struggle.

I might just comment on a few themes I felt stood out. It’ll be blunt for the most part:

- IQ is not tracking anywhere near as well as posters on here think. His ball use, competitiveness and defensive craft were horrible yesterday (it’s been a consistent theme too). I don’t think dropping him is the solution, but on what I’ve seen the past 4-6 weeks I’m now concerned over his future as a defender.

- Noble was perhaps the biggest fumble and dumb footy exponent out there yesterday. He did offer plenty of run though and built on what was as bad a first quarter as I’ve seen since Plowman in Rd 2.

- Sidebottom, the best way I can break it down is he’s either lazier than Sier or he’s lost two yards. He was as good as ever ball in hand yesterday, but I’m beginning to understand better why clubs are able to stroll out of the centre against us because his pressure game is non existent.

- Grundy, I think the numbers will cover what was another average one. Some of his “efforts” in marking contests v Campbell were as poor as Sidebottom’s pressure.

- T Brown, I felt his game was the barometer. At the first bounce I was genuinely concerned seeing him lined up on Cunnington, but it wound up a fine piece of coaching from Buckley and Brown executed extremely well. By eye Cunnington got off the chain early in the third and was busy, but not impactful in the last and the numbers supported that with his 4 clearances in that third driving their comeback. Let’s see how he goes v Kennedy before we assess it further.

- Cameron continues to step up in a big way. Surely Cox’s time in the senior side is done while this guy is fit because he offers everything Cox does plus he’s a better mark, can hold his ground in a 1 v 1 and he has a sh*t tonne more agility. IDK if he’s a solution to a problem we’ve been trying to solve for a while, but he might at least bridge the gap until we do.

- Roughead, damn this guys return to form has slipped under the radar. He’s been a rock for us this year under intense pressure. He’ll be tough to replace v Sydney even with Howe set to return.

I think the rest performed at the standard I expect of them v the worst team in it as young kids showing signs (Poulter, McReery, Henry, Keane and Murphy), experienced guys that are over the hill and only getting game time because of the youth push (WHE, Thomas and Mayne) and guys that are good footballers in their prime who should be delivering week in week out (Crisp, Daicos, Maynard and Mihocek). It remains to be seen what the win does for the group and although I’m not expecting much it does at least effectively rule us out of winning the spoon because I can’t see us going winless from here and that North outfit is not winning 3-4 matches (minimum) to overtake us.
IQ has been our most consistent performer in the first 7 rounds. Assured with ball in hand and decisive in defence. Had a poor stat game against Greene but that was a function of poor team defence. Wasn’t at his best last night, but give the KID a break.

You are judging Brown on his game against Cunnington...one of the best contested ball players in the game? Brown is young and raw, he has talent and he will come good.

Sidebottom is average and shouldn’t be reliedupon as a prime mover any more. Haven’t forgiven him for notreturning to the hub last year. I think he should be traded.
 

76woodenspooners

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I think a lot of excuses are made for the umpires at times. There's no excuse for that. 100% the umpire's fault. To become an umpire, you should need to pass some kind of common sense test.
Umpires make kazillions of micro-decisions each game (Did that kick go 15 meters? Did that player have prior? Was that a correct disposal? Was that center bounce fair? Was that player blocked? Did that mark come off hands? Do I call that ‘kicking in danger’ or ‘below the knees’?)

And their calls are scrutinised by hundreds of thousands of viewers, half of which will never agree with a 51% call. Most of whom don’t fully understand the rules (including me ... that “below the knees” call in the last - I had no idea whether that was “below the knees” or “kicking in danger” and I challenge anyone to explain why it is one and not the other)

And scrutinised by commentary and special comments teams who are usually given far more credibility than they are due, and whose objective is to wind the viewers up and keep them engaged.

For all the screw-ups made by the umpires (and they do screw up) 99% of their judgements are reasonable and uncontentious.

Umpires are like crime scene cleaners ... it’s a sh*t job, the vast majority of us wouldn’t do it for any money, and yet we can be very thankful that there are people who do it.
 
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Pistol Night

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Umpires make kazillions of micro-decisions each game (Did that kick go 15 meters? Did that player have prior? Was that a correct disposal? Was that center bounce fair? Was that player blocked? Did that mark come off hands? Do I call that ‘kicking in danger’ or ‘below the knees’?)

And a lot of their calls are scrutinised by hundreds of thousands of viewers, half of which will never agree with a 51% call.

And scrutinised by commentary and special comments teams who are usually given far more credibility than they are due, and whose objective is to wind the viewers up and keep them engaged.

For all their screw-ups made by the umpires (and they do screw up) 99% of their judgements are reasonable and uncontentious.

Umpires are like crime scene cleaners ... it’s a sh*t job, the vast majority of us wouldn’t do it for any money, and yet we can be very thankful that there are people who do it.
Spot on
 

Scodog10

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IQ has been our most consistent performer in the first 7 rounds. Assured with ball in hand and decisive in defence. Had a poor stat game against Greene but that was a function of poor team defence. Wasn’t at his best last night, but give the KID a break.

You are judging Brown on his game against Cunnington...one of the best contested ball players in the game? Brown is young and raw, he has talent and he will come good.

Sidebottom is average and shouldn’t be reliedupon as a prime mover any more. Haven’t forgiven him for notreturning to the hub last year. I think he should be traded.
You’re wrong about IQ that drive by has been a long time coming. He’s the future of our club and needs to be better. I had a side discussion in the Bianco thread recently about him coming in to play the Caleb Daniel distributor role and one of Noble and IQ shift to a wing. That time is approaching and I’d be moving IQ.

Brown was great what part of my post indicated otherwise?
 

Cyclops

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..

I might just comment on a few themes I felt stood out. ..
Excellent thoughtful post, have to adjust a few of my opinions now.

Sad to hear what you think about IQ, maybe he's become good enough that the opposition are putting time into how to work him? Definitely has the potential to be a Houli/Chris Johnston style defensive controller/QB.

Agree Roughie is back and a big loss.

So happy about Cameron and delighted I was so wrong. Not as scary as Mason Cox but already much more consistent and improving. I dream of a stable set up where we somehow fit Cameron and (a fit and consistent) Cox with Grundy resting forward hahaha I'm dreaming I know but the look on opposition supporters faces would be delicious.

Sidey and Pendles are the wells we have gone to so often and if they are declining that's normal. Bucks has been throwing things around so maybe its as much the plan as personal decline? I mean Moore as a forward was a waste but we werren;t winning with him at CHB so you can see why it was done, maybe Sidey playing all one way was a coaching gamble too?

Our coaching isn't great ATM but that's hardly a genius insight. I feel like uncertainty at board level has troubled all levels of the club. Maybe a quiet hard working president can rebuild a bit of equanimity?
 

Billys Back

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A win is better than a loss. Obviously North are terrible, but at least they played Maynard into form.
JDG not only kicking goals but actually chasing!
Tyler Brown may have picked up some confidence.
More game experience for the kids.
Cameron looking more like a reliable, contested forward/ruck.
Moore back to defense showing we look far better with his run and deep attacking kicking.
Finally getting clearances which we have struggled with.
The new kids got to sing the song.

The swans were good last night. It was a physically tough game. It wouldn’t surprise me to go 2 in a row.
 

Pistol Night

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A win is better than a loss. Obviously North are terrible, but at least they played Maynard into form.
JDG not only kicking goals but actually chasing!
Tyler Brown may have picked up some confidence.
More game experience for the kids.
Cameron looking more like a reliable, contested forward/ruck.
Moore back to defense showing we look far better with his run and deep attacking kicking.
Finally getting clearances which we have struggled with.
The new kids got to sing the song.

The swans were good last night. It was a physically tough game. It wouldn’t surprise me to go 2 in a row.
Are we sending Wrighty up to have a "coffee" with Logan McDonald
 

BLS World Wide

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2 nice tackles then missed both his shots at goal? 6 goals from his last 21 games? Yeah he’s amazing.
why does people having differing opinions to you offend you so much or make you think you treat them like an idiot ?
I’m not a big JT fan either but he by now means cost us the game and unfortunately the cupbeards pretty empty for us for forwards not like there’s a heap of options
 

ClaytonM

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Moore back to defense showing we look far better with his run and deep attacking kicking.
While I didn’t agree with it at the time I am glad they moved Moore forward. It at least showed that key defenders are JUST AS VALUABLE as key forwards. I would argue more important actually.

Hopefully it has put an end to that argument on here at least for a while, but I doubt it.

We need to build a team around Moore as our CFB. That is where he plays his best football and where he is most valuable to the team. Only if we can develop someone who can replace him then should we consider moving him. By replacing him I don’t mean play the same position, I mean play close to the same standard. There is nobody on our list who will come close in the next few years at least.
 

Snake_Baker

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I think a lot of excuses are made for the umpires at times. There's no excuse for that. 100% the umpire's fault. To become an umpire, you should need to pass some kind of common sense test.

Don't get me wrong, I reckon the Pies played better for longer & deserved the points, but if yesterday's umpiring was anything to go by then we may as well find something else to do on the weekends.

The media are also complicit in the censorship of the biggest issue facing the sport.

Yesterday was a disgrace.
 

Pistol Night

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Don't get me wrong, I reckon the Pies played better for longer & deserved the points, but if yesterday's umpiring was anything to go by then we may as well find something else to do on the weekends.

The media are also complicit in the censorship of the biggest issue facing the sport.

Yesterday was a disgrace.
Players that shower in their jocks?
 

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Snake_Baker

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Naturally, we focus on the North related stuff, but I didn't miss the forearm to the throat of Grundy in the centre ruck contest that occurred in the last quarter with the umpire standing 6 feet away.

 

Pistol Night

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Is it really plausible that umpires would have agendas against certain teams?
 

Snake_Baker

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Is it really plausible that umpires would have agendas against certain teams?
It's obvious that incompetence is rife, and the rules are layered in such a way now that subconscious biases can be covered under "umpire interpretation".

Everything is possible when everything is grey, and you can't just sit back and ignore this weekly ongoing catastrophic debacle and then speak up when it suits you.

I'm not claiming North would have won the match, but I am stating that any possibility of that occurring was taken away from them by the officials. A 10 minute period of umpiring in the 3rd quarter, after North had slammed on 4 goals, effectively took away all of North's momentum and handed it over to Collingwood.
 

Snake_Baker

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I’m sure umpires value giving frees to teams they like over prolonging their career

:D

Do you think they actually get punished for this crap?

Dean Margetts has umpired 300 games and not a single grand final!!!!

He has been hideously incompetent over the course of his entire career.
 

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