Autopsy Round 8 vs Adelaide Rant Thread

[Just Kreuzing]

Just saying I don't remember him as one but if I'm wrong I'll stand corrected.

Not the point of my post though, just asking, in a roundabout how much involvement does Ratts have in this area, could he have more and does anyone have an opinion?

One of the best ever, Tougher, smarter and more skilled version of Sam Mitchell and anyone else who plays like him.

I suppose footy has changed a fair bit since Ratts played.

I would be trying to tap into a great player who has recently left the game for some advise if they are not satisfied with the current coaches and strategy.

Kirk would be one worth chatting to or listening too after his comments yesterday. Simon Black when he retires would be another great option, who else is out there currently??

 

[SBYM]

The difference between both sides ability to kick the football was enormous.

Do you think our zone defense just isn't good enough with our current work rate which allows good teams to just keep hitting up leading targets and cutting us up.

Maybe some time spent playing man on man all over the ground might serve us better.

Well said. Our zone was looser than Fev at the Brownlow.

There was an Adelaide kick in during the second quarter. They went short to a pocket, the zone drifted across and crumbled, because within two seconds they had put the ball to their CHB to a man in a paddock with 50m in front of him to run straight up the guts.

I posted in the wake of the St Kilda loss about our team's (we should throw coaches and players in together from now on, it's a TEAM ain't it?) inability to stop St Kilda slicing us up through the middle. Nothing changed, in fact it got worse. As I said then, embarrassing. Two games in a row....disgraceful, mortifying, insipid etc.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Well said. Our zone was looser than Fev at the Brownlow.

There was an Adelaide kick in during the second quarter. They went short to a pocket, the zone drifted across and crumbled, because within two seconds they had put the ball to their CHB to a man in a paddock with 50m in front of him to run straight up the guts.

I posted in the wake of the St Kilda loss about our team's (we should throw coaches and players in together from now on, it's a TEAM ain't it?) inability to stop St Kilda slicing us up through the middle. Nothing changed, in fact it got worse. As I said then, embarrassing. Two games in a row....disgraceful, mortifying, insipid etc.

Is this because we are becoming as predictable as North Melbourne through the middle, we have alot of similar types in there atm.

I think we are too negative in there when we have 4 or 5 blokes trying to lock up their direct opponents instead of trying to win the ball.

Armfield, Curnow, Ellard, Gibbs and Robinson were all more concerned with stopping their opponent and not focussed on winning the ball when it was up for grabs. That mix coupled with Judd and Murphy being completely shut down means we are no chance of winning clearances, contested ball etc!

The other thing I noticed is when Curnow, Ellard, Armfield etc are around the stoppage in that negative mindset opposed to Thompson, Dangerfield and Sloane, these Crows players dont respect our blokes as they know they wont and cant hurt them even if they did get first hands on the ball.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

One of the best ever, Tougher, smarter and more skilled version of Sam Mitchell and anyone else who plays like him.

I suppose footy has changed a fair bit since Ratts played.

I would be trying to tap into a great player who has recently left the game for some advise if they are not satisfied with the current coaches and strategy.

Kirk would be one worth chatting to or listening too after his comments yesterday. Simon Black when he retires would be another great option, who else is out there currently??

He's talking about Paul Williams, not Diesel.

 

[rp84]

I'm wondering if it's time to send Waite to CHB and Henderson to CHF?

Hendo has been fantastic as a backman but his cameo up forward yesterday impressed. Waite finds it difficult to get into the game as a forward and might be more use to us in the air down back...

/clutching at straws

Fair call I think.

Waite has only played a couple good seasons, and they were at CHB.

We have a CHF playing at CHB to play him into form. Well, I think he is one of only a few in form players. Play him where he will win us a flag.

As a side note, duigan is a shadow of the player he was last year. I have a good feeling he is a player that needs everything to go right for him injury wise, to be effective. Hopefully he can get up to speed ASAP. Need him to step up bigtime.

Id play:

Scotland - jammo- duigan
Bower- Waite - yarran
Bootsma- Gibbs- simspon
Lucas- hendo- garlett
Betts- hampson - ellard

RR- warnock, judd, walker

Int: Watson ( if dry, Collins if wet) armfield, tuohy, robbo

Emg: Collins, Curnow, Buckley


Scotland moved back to marshall our defence.

Ellard forward. Has been our best goalsneak lately

Walker in the guts. Has been poor and selfish up forward for
Two weeks. I think he is a class mid.

Gibbs in the middle too. Time to pull his bloody finger out.

Bootsma in. Need an injection of hunger. Not shite players given a game just because.

Warnock in. Best tap ruckman at the club. Garlett half fwd. Get him up the ground and into the game. Is class up the ground.

Lucas in is a no brainer.

Big one is a swap of Waite and hendo. Needs to be done.

 

[rp84]

Therefore outs:

Thornton, russell, murphy, MK ( give him a break, he will come good), curnow ( or tuohy)

In: bootsma, Lucas, Watson , warnock, Waite

 

[blueboy25]

I think is our worst loss for at least 3 years.

The thing that makes it worse is seeing sides like Essendon and Adelaide who I think have inferior lists to us have gone straight past us and the reason is simple - they play for each other and play as a team.

The players we have drafted over the last few years have not been physically ready to play which has hurt us as we have not had enough new blood injected into the team.

Look at teams like Collingwood who have had guys like Beams, Sidebottom and Fasolo all come in and make impacts in their first few seasons. We have guys like Mitchell, McCarthy, Buckley and Bootsma who are either injured or not physically ready to play at the top level yet. Don't get me wrong, I think these guys will be good players for us in the future.

Not having new players to inject in to the team when we have a few injuries like we are experiencing now means we have to go back and use guys like Joseph, McLean and few others who in the end don't offer a lot more than the guys they are replacing.

Maybe Ratts needs to forget training today, take the boys down the pub and put a few beers on and move on from yesterdays debacle. A few of you may laugh at this suggestion but Pagan would do this type of thing at the Roos when they were having a rough trot and to be honest nothing else seems to be working for us at the moment.

 

[pepalenko]

If Waite's history with injury is any indicator, I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't get up this week.

 

[blueboy25]

Armfield, Curnow, Ellard, Gibbs and Robinson were all more concerned with stopping their opponent and not focussed on winning the ball when it was up for grabs. That mix coupled with Judd and Murphy being completely shut down means we are no chance of winning clearances, contested ball etc!

Agree with this especially Army, when we are up and about Army is running, breaking the lines and making his opponent chase him. He is being stifled trying to lock down on someone.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

If Waite's history with injury is any indicator, I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't get up this week.

They will probably rest him and some others seeing as though we are only playing Melbourne.

I hope the club has some sort of performance based incentives for Waite including minimum amount of games played etc after he screwed them down for a 3 year deal.

 

[mjd75]

The good thing now is that I no longer truly believe we are a flag threat so I can lower my expectations and therefore not get as P*ssed off at the poor performances.

We will probably come out this week, fix all our issues from the past few weeks and flog Melbourne by over 100pts, then back up with a 60pt flogging of Port, think we are again invincible and get hammered by Geelong then the Eagles.

"sigh"

I really really hope they prove me wrong and they find something to get them back to the team that played Collingwood.

Ive penciled in 9 more wins so same as last year (excluding drawn game).

 

[SBYM]

Is this because we are becoming as predictable as North Melbourne through the middle, we have alot of similar types in there atm.

We do. But they were all ferocious for the second half against the Lions and then for the full game against the Pies. And I'm talking about ferocious running.

The thing that is so disappointing about being chopped up on the transition is that it is not even a 'footy' skill that we are lacking in. Running - gut running, smart running etc - is something that every team should be good at. Our zone seems to be too much corralling and pointing as opposed to intense and ferocious running.

I'm no football genius, but if you've played a full game and walk off the ground with some left in the tank (I'm thinking Gibba having a laugh with Crows/Saints players, but this is just one example) then there's the 5% we've dropped off.

 

[The Coach]

[/b]Must admit I thought the same initially as well.

The other piece of play that really annoyed me was when we passed to Walker in the 2nd quarter who made a lead to the pocket (which seems to be our forwards gameplan this year).

He went back for a set shot close to the boundary and tried the lowest % shot possible with a deliberate drop punt kick through the eye of the needle and not surprisingly failed miserably.

This annoyance increased when a short time later Josh Jenkins marked on the boundary line (was probably over the line) and he went back and calmly but skillfully increased his angle and % chances and slotted it through on his left foot.

I was amazed at how a player of Walkers experience couldn't do what a 2nd gamer and former basketballer could do.

Footy smarts we dont have, need some goal kicking help from Stevie J down at the Blues, He limits the chance of skill error with the way he goes about it!

Jenkins was next to the point post, Walker was about 40m out

OK. Couple of things.

Fitness. Not up to scratch, just isn't. They ran harder then us, made space and it was all so easy from there.

Complacency. Some guys aren't fighting to win. Those that did were Judd, Henderson, Kreuzer, Simpson and Jamison. Whatever the reason the side lacks desire. I reckon we've under-estimated the importance of Carrots and Laidler as on-field leaders.

What I want to see next week is some guys given a spell in the twos. Because the second issue needs to be settled by the coaching staff. Bring in Collins, Mclean, Watson, Bootsma, the freaking water boy, whoever. Drop guys who aren't getting the most out of themselves OR give them a whole new role to learn.

Stick Gibbs in the middle for the whole game, we'll need him without Smurph. Bring in Watson to play defence against some AFL forwards (if you call Melbourne's lot that) and leave Hendo forward. He may of been settled in defence, but that mark he took in the third, where he glided in front of the pack, and the work he put in to make things happen, that's what we need up forward right now.

Let them know that things have changed. They are behind the eight ball now, and every game will be hard. Do they think Melbourne don't know we're down? Do they think that they can't smell blood in the water? If we want to be the best, we've got to respect the opposition and treat them all as worthy opponents.

Do you really think Melbourne would be smelling blood in the water - they are more likely on the smelling salts from being knocked into oblivion every week. Melbourne are on a par with the Giants, we can beat them while still playing crap - I am not cocky (took some of Adelaide 60+) that is just a fact

I think is our worst loss for at least 3 years.

The thing that makes it worse is seeing sides like Essendon and Adelaide who I think have inferior lists to us have gone straight past us and the reason is simple - they play for each other and play as a team.

The players we have drafted over the last few years have not been physically ready to play which has hurt us as we have not had enough new blood injected into the team.

Look at teams like Collingwood who have had guys like Beams, Sidebottom and Fasolo all come in and make impacts in their first few seasons. We have guys like Mitchell, McCarthy, Buckley and Bootsma who are either injured or not physically ready to play at the top level yet. Don't get me wrong, I think these guys will be good players for us in the future.

Not having new players to inject in to the team when we have a few injuries like we are experiencing now means we have to go back and use guys like Joseph, McLean and few others who in the end don't offer a lot more than the guys they are replacing.

Maybe Ratts needs to forget training today, take the boys down the pub and put a few beers on and move on from yesterdays debacle. A few of you may laugh at this suggestion but Pagan would do this type of thing at the Roos when they were having a rough trot and to be honest nothing else seems to be working for us at the moment.

Spot on about the state of our available list right now. The same boys other than the injured should all be picked next week - no real alternative.

I am think the boxing gym before the pub. Sparring against some superior instructors who are under orders to get in their face and see if they will fight back

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Ratten's weekly email

Make no mistake. There will be changes to the team confronting Melbourne at the MCG next Sunday.

Bottom line - if you can't win your own footy and you lose too many critical contests you can't play in our team.

I'm not altogether sure the replacements are necessarily ready, but I do know that if we put five, six, seven or eight games into them they will be ready - as opposed to those we've had to carry for a while.

Going into yesterday's game, I was under no illusions about Adelaide. Watching the Crows going around the previous weekend against Geelong at AAMI Stadium, I was so impressed with the way they ran both ways to create and cover and, on the flip side, the way they won the ball that was there to be won.

Yesterday, while I was reasonable happy with some of our work in the first quarter against a really good team, the Crows absolutely creamed us in their capacity to win the 50/50 ball and their work rate to get away from that was a lot more healthier than ours.

The Adelaide loss was of course compounded by the injury to Marc Murphy, and while a player of Marc's character cannot be replaced, his absence requires greater effort from everyone else to make a contest wherever and whenever they can.

It's about every other member of the group lifting a further two, three or five per cent to take up the slack without Marc - and I reckon that's what we need to do to become a better team, because at the moment we're isolated.

Melbourne poses a real danger, but then again every opposition team poses a danger. That's because the competition by its very nature is even and if you allow a team to have a crack at you they do.

As I said, there will be changes to the team line-up on Sunday, and there will be changes to the way we play

Strong stuff. Obviously livid behind the scenes.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I'm seeing Bootsma, maybe Buckley, maybe Watson based on those words.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Jenkins was next to the point post, Walker was about 40m out

Go back and watch it again, your exaggerating, he was closer to 20 metres, low % shot anyway.

 

[Aphrodite]

Was just about to post it ODN.

Very strong stuff and the 1st two sentences says it all.

 

[HarveyWallbanger]

Make sure you thank the Demons for giving you your confidence back next game.

Blues by 100+

Thats how bad Melbourne are.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Was just about to post it ODN.

Very strong stuff and the 1st two sentences says it all.

Not to mention the acknowledgement that we have been carrying some players for a while.

I'd say Jeffy may be in the gun there, out of sorts Duigan, maybe even Gibbs in terms of expectation vs results. Geez, could mean three quarters of the team at present.

 

[phoenix69]

All Rockstars - No Roadies!

Has the Carlton media machine produced a bunch of rockstars with the abundance of media commitments being thrown at the players this year.

It's a known fact that PREMIERSHIPS sell MEMBERSHIPS and not home videos!

I hope someone recognises the constant distraction to the task at hand and perhaps considers winding it back somewhat so the lads can just feel like footballers again and do the TEAM things.

or is that just the way the business of football runs these days?

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Not to mention the acknowledgement that we have been carrying some players for a while.

I'd say Jeffy may be in the gun there, out of sorts Duigan, maybe even Gibbs in terms of expectation vs results. Geez, could mean three quarters of the team at present.

Wont hurt any of these 3 to be dropped. Duigan and Jeffy were lucky to survive last week!

 

[phoenix69]

Spoken like a man who's job is on the line!

Go down swinging Ratts!!!

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Spoken like a man who's job is on the line!

Go down swinging Ratts!!!

Yup, I reckon he has surveyed the surroundings and thought 'you guys aren't going to play for me, I'll go down the drastic line' and he is right too.

 

[ESKIE]

Re: All Rockstars - No Roadies!

Has the Carlton media machine produced a bunch of rockstars with the abundance of media commitments being thrown at the players this year.

It's a known fact that PREMIERSHIPS sell MEMBERSHIPS and not home videos!

I hope someone recognises the constant distraction to the task at hand and perhaps considers winding it back somewhat so the lads can just feel like footballers again and do the TEAM things.

or is that just the way the business of football runs these days?

I think at some stage have gotten ahead of ourselves, the close loss in the final v West Coast last year, gave the perception we weren;t far off, focusing on that and the fixtured Round 3 game against v Collingwood over the pre season and winning that which was at last the big scalp...yeh I think we got ahead of ourselves, the group need more maturity to deal with the media/hype and expectation.

Yes and stop being rock stars, but so do a lot of AFL players

Now injuries...this has really contributed to our form problems, the Essendon loss and loosing Carrazzo has left us with a confidence problem...

I believe we can turn things around, once we get a few wins, and some players back from injury, get that winning feeling over the next few weeks...

Hopefully Murph isn;t out for too long

 

[The Coach]

I am thinking ODN and some of our interstate brothers would not have seen the Saturday VFL on ABC.

The cupboard is bare. Watson got beaten. Lucas hugged the boundary line and the excitement was from kids who have no bodies and not even half a dozen games under their belt.

Because we are only playing Melbourne Ratts (wanting to give a message/ and deflect blame?) will bring in Boots, Buckley (as sub), and should give McLean a go (a poor man's version of AB nowadays LOL but we have no alternative)

Watson and Lucas would be ridiculous